Another Vanguard Issue

[jb512]

< frustration >

If you happen upon the item:

CAP0748H
OFFICER CAP DEVICE EMBROIDERED ON BLUE FOR 1ST LT

(or for any other rank), don't waste your time.  I added one to my order this time to see what it is (because there is no picture, go figure), and I don't see why this item is even offered.  What I got was a single embroidered 1st Lt for $1.00 when you can order a pair of the same thing for .75.  Maybe some people didn't want to go through the effort of using scissors to cut the pair into singles...

I'm not sure what they were thinking because I see no noticable difference between it and the pairs that I also ordered.

Just FYI...

Also, for thehock fans, I placed an order there as well.  I ordered a commander's comm medal, and a commander's comm ribbon and was sent two medals.  I also ordered a 8 ribbon holder in plastic and was sent a 7 holder in metal.

It's like a crap shoot between the two... never know what you're gonna get.

< /frustration >

[0]

up until my recent Vanguard issue that I've got on another posting I've had no issues with them.  Hock Shop until recently same thing.  I ordered some patches and an Aerospace Badge, what I got was the Cadet Programs Badge.  Part of me didn't mind seeing as I'm working on that one too, but I wasn't ready for it yet, but am ready for me AE Badge. 

[Maj Ballard]

I've had a  couple of snags with The Hock in the past (off center names on nameplates, etc.), but I've found that all it takes is a phone call and they make it right, at their expense.

[jb512]

I've had a  couple of snags with The Hock in the past (off center names on nameplates, etc.), but I've found that all it takes is a phone call and they make it right, at their expense.

And that's fine, I know that the guy hooks you up if they made the mistake.  I think someone should actually take a look at the orders before shipping.  I've had a misspelled nametag from there before and the low-grade embroidery.  Oh well, I guess that's what we can expect when there is no "cap-spec" for producing uniform items.

No offense to the guy, just venting.

[lordmonar]

I don't understand. 

You have issues with Vanguard because you ordered something you did not know was....and it turned out to be cheesy?

Listen....I got this bridge for sell....cheap....you don't need to see a picture of it...

Sorry could no help myself.

For the most part...I have not had any problems recently with Vanguard.  If you have any questions about what they are selling all you have to do is pick up the phone and call.

[jb512]

I don't understand. 

You have issues with Vanguard because you ordered something you did not know was....and it turned out to be cheesy?

Listen....I got this bridge for sell....cheap....you don't need to see a picture of it...

Sorry could no help myself.

For the most part...I have not had any problems recently with Vanguard.  If you have any questions about what they are selling all you have to do is pick up the phone and call.

I did not know was?  Try again.

I'm sorry you could no help yourself.

I ordered something advertised to go on a hat and it was just a normal single embroidered rank insignia that you can buy in a pair for cheaper.  If you want the info, fine.  If you don't, then that's ok too.  It has nothing to do with cheesiness.

[Stonewall]

About a month ago I get an email from Vanguard saying an item had shipped.  I hadn't ordered from there since August of last year.  Naturally, they don't include a description of what was sent so I had to wait and see.

Out of the blue, in an oversized padded envelope big enough to put a GTM handbook in, I get 2 of those CAP stickers with the prop in the middle.

6 months!  6 MONTHS!  6 MONTHS!!!  Obviously they weren't important to me but obviously I wanted them for some reason.  Too bad I don't remember why.  What a joke that place is. 

[Gunner C]

I've had a  couple of snags with The Hock in the past (off center names on nameplates, etc.), but I've found that all it takes is a phone call and they make it right, at their expense.

I found the same with the Hock.  Any business makes mistakes from time to time (albeit not as many as Vanguard).  I called on one occasion with a problem with the order and Tom made it right.  I found that customer service was much more important to me than any possible small additional expense.  Besides IIRC, The Hock is "family" - he's a CAP member (or used to be).

GC

[0]

Last I heard Tom was still a member just not participating.  Basically he keeps it up so he can be included in stuff like going to conferences.  At least up until the Vanguard take over.

[BuckeyeDEJ]

I was recently frustrated with Vanguard over a flight suit name patch -- my name was misspelled (not my last, but my first!). After looking at the order form and receipt, it's clear the only place it was fouled up was when the actual patch was made.

I called Vanguard, and within three weeks, I got a replacement. What was wrong with the replacement? I'd ordered my middle initial (which I always do), and it wasn't there.

I figured at least they got the parts of my name that were on the patch right, so I should cut my losses.

I guess my question for them is this: Isn't accuracy important?

[Eagle400]

I guess my question for them is this: Isn't accuracy important?

It should be, but it seems like the people at Vanguard care as much about accuracy as the people at CAPMart and the Bookstore did  . 

For example, the ASNP (Aircrew Style Name Patch) for the flight suit is supposed to look like this:



and NOT this:



Does anyone know of a company or store that makes black leather ASNP's suitable for CAP that have the rank and branch correctly positioned under the name?  

I have a feeling that if I order this item from Vanguard, it will come incorrect no matter what I say.

[CASH172]

Whoever does know, please don't tell all of us cause you'll just screw a very good company. 

[SarDragon]

For example, the ASNP (Aircrew Style Name Patch) for the flight suit is supposed to look like this:

and NOT this:

Got a ref for that? The pics in the reg look like the lower pic in your post.

2. Leather Name Patch: Will include name, grade, and aeronautical rating. Patch will be centered on left breast above pocket. Cloth name patch is not authorized. If no aeronautical rating, a title such as "Mission Scanner" may be used.

A detailed search of both CAPM 39-1, and AFI 36-2903 reveals no specific formatting instructions regarding the placement of rank and branch on line 2.

[Eagle400]

2. Leather Name Patch: Will include name, grade, and aeronautical rating. Patch will be centered on left breast above pocket. Cloth name patch is not authorized. If no aeronautical rating, a title such as “Mission Scanner” may be used.

A detailed search of both CAPM 39-1, and AFI 36-2903 reveals no specific formatting instructions regarding the placement of rank and branch on line 2.

You are correct, sir; there are no references in the 39-1 or 36-2903 regarding proper placement of rank and branch on line 2.  However, I've never seen an Air Force, Army, Navy, Marine, or Coast Guard ASNP where the rank and branch are not positioned in line 2 as they are in the first pic I posted.

This is a standardization issue.  I see some CAP members wearing ASNP's with the rank and branch positioned as they are in pic 2, and others with ASNP's with the rank and branch positioned as they are in pic 1.

The Air Force doesn't have a problem with this; it is standard for them to have the ASNP configured as shown in pic 1.  Why should CAP be any different?  Maybe this is something that should be addressed in 39-1.  

And as far as the pictures in 39-1 showing the ASNP configured as the one in pic 2... there are also pictures in 39-1 of a cadet with his ribbons out of order and a senior wearing his blue service shirt without a t-shirt underneath.  So the last thing anyone should do is use pictures as proof that what is shown is correct.     

[Hawk200]

However, I've never seen an Air Force, Army, Navy, Marine, or Coast Guard ASNP where the rank and branch are not positioned in line 2 as they are in the second pic I posted.

I've seen variations of both Pic 1 and 2 across every branch of service. The Air Force typically uses the first one, but the second one is not uncommon.

I see some CAP members wearing ASNP's with the rank and branch positioned as they are in pic 2, and others with ASNP's with the rank and branch positioned as they are in pic 1.

Just like the military. And the standard is having the same info on them. Everyone in the military knows where to look for an individual's rank on those nameplates. Whether or not it's shifted an eighth of an inch (if that) is a meaningless issue.

The Air Force doesn't have a problem with this; it is standard for them to have the ASNP configured as shown in pic 1.  Why should CAP be any different?  Maybe this is something that should be addressed in 39-1.  

The Air Force doesn't even address it, we don't need to for its own sake. "Because we can" is not a sufficient reason to do anything. There is nothing gained. You should be more concerned about the person's 101 being up to date, and that he or she is being assigned to tasks that they're trained for.

And as far as the pictures in 39-1 showing the ASNP configured as the one in pic 2... there are also pictures in 39-1 of a cadet with his ribbons out of order and a senior wearing his blue service shirt without a t-shirt underneath.  So the last thing anyone should do is use pictures as proof that what is shown is correct.   

And we most certainly should not use anything unwritten as proof. There's no need to add anything. There are actually a number of variations, the ones you show are just the most common. The second format is probably a little more uniform than the first. The rank and "CAP" would be on the same place on everyone's tag.

[Eagle400]

I agree, this is not a big issue at all.  It would just be nice for CAP ASNP's to have the standard configuration found on most USAF ASNP's (i.e. what is depicted in pic 1). 

What CAP could also do (with AF approval) is wear the ASNP with only the name and aeronautical rating.  That is also very common in the AF. 

It makes sense, too; officers wear rank insignia on the flight suit already, so having it printed on the ASNP is a little redundant.  Now, for airmen and NCO's it is mandatory, because their rank insignia is not worn on the flight suit.  Same deal with cadets.

And if it seems like I am some sort of uniform nazi or like-minded individual, I'm not; this is the only place I bring up uniform ideas and suggestions.  I know that the mission is more important than the uniform, and that's why I keep mum about uniform stuff in public.          

[Hawk200]

What CAP could also do (with AF approval) is wear the ASNP with only the name and aeronautical rating.  That is also very common in the AF. 

Agreed, I've seen that a great deal. It would also mean that you could literally get one nameplate and essentially wear it until it's unserviceable. Fewer people would have to replace a nameplate when promoted. An upgrade for wings would be normal, but I know many pilots in CAP that only wear their basic wings on their flightsuit.

It makes sense, too; officers wear rank insignia on the flight suit already, so having it printed on the ASNP is a little redundant.  Now, for airmen and NCO's it is mandatory, because their rank insignia is not worn on the flight suit.  Same deal with cadets.

Little rougher for those with stripes in CAP, in the military the plates are normally issued to enlisted using some type of funds. Easy for cadets, they only have to replace when they get new wings, or go senior.

[disamuel]

CCSE-

I don't see a recommended color for either the patch or the lettering. Should I order black or brown, and what color should the lettering be?

Also as a new member with no rating, can I order the patch without the wings from Vanguard? I couldn't find it on their site.

Thanks in advance for your help.

[MIKE]

I don't see a recommended color for either the patch or the lettering. Should I order black or brown, and what color should the lettering be?

For a flightsuit/flight jacket or utility uniform.  Black with silver lettering.  CAP is supposed to have a special reversed black/brown tag for the black A-2.

[Pylon]

I agree, this is not a big issue at all.  It would just be nice for CAP ASNP's to have the standard configuration found on most USAF ASNP's (i.e. what is depicted in pic 1). 

What CAP could also do (with AF approval) is wear the ASNP with only the name and aeronautical rating.  That is also very common in the AF. 

It makes sense, too; officers wear rank insignia on the flight suit already, so having it printed on the ASNP is a little redundant.  Now, for airmen and NCO's it is mandatory, because their rank insignia is not worn on the flight suit.  Same deal with cadets.

And if it seems like I am some sort of uniform nazi or like-minded individual, I'm not; this is the only place I bring up uniform ideas and suggestions.  I know that the mission is more important than the uniform, and that's why I keep mum about uniform stuff in public.           

Hey CCSE:   Maybe because you're not a member of CAP, or maybe it's because you're not a member of the Air Force, but pretty much every ASNP I've seen in both CAP and with our USAF and ANG personnel here in the tiny state of New York have the second version you showed.   

Just because you've seen in done that way on TV or "that's th' way they do it 'round here" doesn't mean that the other way is wrong.

We have enough problems with people spouting off their opinion and observations as fact or universal truth, when in fact, it's not.