Fuzzies

[Smokey]

What if......

The decision was made as follows.....

If you meet the AF standards.....you will wear the AF style uniforms...IE...blues, BDU, green flight suits.

If you don't meet the AF hgt/wgt standards....you will wear the new corporate uniform...IE... TPU (white shirt,blue pants, etc) Blue BDU, Blue flight suit.

Should you choose to remain fuzzy (beards, goatee) your only option is the polo shirt and grey slacks....and....you will be restricted to non operational positions.  In other words......no pilot,obs, scanner, ground team, etc.   You would be limited to jobs such as finance, JAG, historian, personnel, etc.

No more white shirts/grey slacks or blazer combo.


What would you do?   Quit?  Shave? 

Just a hypothetical......discuss.

[SarDragon]

Outta here. BTDT. Was easy the last two times. Will have a bunch of stuff on eBay.

[star1151]

Just to clarify, fuzzy is not allowed, regardless of weight?

I don't grow facial hair...but if I was required to meet AF grooming standards, I'd have a hard time justifying the hassle in order to stay in.  I'm simply too incompetent to fix my hair in an authorized manner.  It's why, even though I meet AF weight standards, I still wear the golf shirt uniform.

And I wouldn't want to stay without being able to do anything operational.

Edited for typo

[DrJbdm]

i'm clean shaven so it doesn't really apply to me. however if I was a fuzzie I may decide to shave if I wanted to be an operational rated pilot. if I gave up flying then I would stay and just wear the polo combo.

  Personally, I have no problem with a very neatly trimed beard, I think they should be allowed on the CSU (TPU) but that decision is made way above my pay grade.

[MIKE]

How 'bout military style uniforms (i.e. AF style), and golf shirts and slacks for everybody else?  I know... 

[Smokey]

I should have clarified...if you want facial hair (other than a reguation mustache) and/or hair that doesn't meet AF regs......it's the polo combo.

[SarDragon]

Smokey, maybe you need to edit your first post and bold the first two lines so folks see the What if part.

[jeders]

I've always wondered, why not just make everyone meet the grooming standards. It's not exactly like it's all that difficult. It took me 3 minutes to shave the beard I had been growing for 5 months when I graduated and was able to return to regular meetings. Personally I think we would look more professional if everyone was clean-shaven. As far as height/weight, I'm perfectly fine with having separate uniforms for those that can't meet the height/weight standards, just don't understand the fuzzy.

[ddelaney103]

I meet ht/wt and grooming standards, and I think it's gotta be the stupidest idea on CAPTalk for a while - and that's saying something.

Turning our volunteers into classes based on ht/wt is bad enough - the AF makes us do that but I'm still not thrilled.  I'd almost like to see a Colonel Shaw in Glory scene where the CAP Commander says, "If we all can't wear the AF uniform, then none of us will wear the AF uniform!"

But to not only restrict the uniform but their missions as well?  I'd tell CAP to go to heck...

[star1151]

I should have clarified...if you want facial hair (other than a reguation mustache) and/or hair that doesn't meet AF regs......it's the polo combo.

I have no problem wearing the polo combo because I can't put my hair up, but I'm out of there if they expect me to cut my hair or not fly.  Let's face it...this is volunteer work.

And to jeders...yes, meeting the grooming standards IS difficult for some of us.

[SarDragon]

I've always wondered, why not just make everyone meet the grooming standards. It's not exactly like it's all that difficult. It took me 3 minutes to shave the beard I had been growing for 5 months when I graduated and was able to return to regular meetings. Personally I think we would look more professional if everyone was clean-shaven. As far as height/weight, I'm perfectly fine with having separate uniforms for those that can't meet the height/weight standards, just don't understand the fuzzy.

Shaving makes my face hurt. It has always made my face hurt. It doesn't matter how I shave, my face hurts. Even when professional barbers shave me, my face hurts.

I have a really tough beard. Every barber who has shaved me has told me don't ever come back for a second shave from them.

So, I have a beard. I keep it trimmed out around the edges, and don't do that every day, so the discomfort is minimized. This is from back when I was in the Navy, and my beard was dark. I have the same style today, bit it's all white now.

[Short Field]

The ARC, Angel Flight, and the Air Force Assoication would be more than happy to see more of my time. 

[jimmydeanno]

There was a gentleman in my previous squadron who wore a beard simply because he was in a car accident and the beard hid the scars.  He was one of the best members I had working for me at the squadron.  If I had to tell him that he wasn't able to participate operationally simply because he had a beard, I think I'd quit.

It is rather disgusting how much we segregate our volunteers, even shun them simply because they choose to wear a beard or are overweight.  It would be nice if we didn't even have to have these discussions because everyone just accepted that people want to volunteer with our organization...

[ddelaney103]

I've deployed as a civilian in uniform.  Once when I deployed as an Airman, I saw a DoD civilian in DCU's who looked like Father Christmas.

Perhaps if we just dropped the grade insignia and wore the uniform like USAF civilians do, we could have one suit for everyone.  A uni-form, if you will.

[arajca]

Perhaps if we just dropped the grade insignia and wore the uniform like USAF civilians do, we could have one suit for everyone.  A uni-form, if you will.

We used to do that but Big Blue said to stop. That's when the field uniform and aviator shirts came into being.

[ddelaney103]

WIWAC, we did have one uniform for all regardless of ht/wt with grade insignia.

Between then and now someone got cranky about it and we had to stop.

I think the grade insignia is the real sticking point.  After all, it used to be OK to wear flightsuits and BDU's w/o grade insignia.  If we went back to that for everyone, maybe that would help.

[Monty]

So, I have a beard. I keep it trimmed out around the edges, and don't do that every day, so the discomfort is minimized. This is from back when I was in the Navy, and my beard was dark. I have the same style today, bit it's all white now.

Based on the neatly-groomed photo and your service to the nation in all capacities, all of those things are irrelevant: some apparently find your lack of Atra usage despicable in a civil organization.

I've often wondered if many of the naysayers to beards in CAP would lovingly step into the roles many bearded folks have, to include getting their pilot quals (on their own dime) and answering calls at 2 AM.

Funny how the USAF - those crazy folks that fund those real-world activities - seem to pick and choose which things are kosher (beards) and which aren't (rank on Tony's TPU).  Guess they do watch and they don't see a problem with Civil Air Patrol senior members with beards.

I'm glad the Air Force can think more abstractly than we (seemingly) can.

Thanks for what you do, Dave; hand's down, more than I can do in many arenas!

($20 payable to my e-mail account via Paypal, please!)   

[arajca]

Funny how the USAF - those crazy folks that fund those real-world activities - seem to pick and choose which things are kosher (beards) and which aren't (rank on Tony's TPU).  Guess they do watch and they don't see a problem with Civil Air Patrol senior members with beards.

But they do have a problem with bearded CAP members wearing their suit.

[jeders]

Don't get me wrong, I have no problems with SMs wearing the corporate uniform with a beard, as long as it's kept well trimmed. What I don't like is when people don't keep there beards clean/professional, which I see more than not.

I've just always wondered what the big deal is about shaving. If your beard is more important than volunteering, maybe you're not right for this organization. Maybe it's just me.

[Pylon]

I've just always wondered what the big deal is about shaving. If your beard is more important than volunteering, maybe you're not right for this organization. Maybe it's just me.

Read the replies above which you obviously skipped over, and then you'll understand at least two of the handful of good reasons why people choose to have beards.



I further don't think people really understand that we're in a volunteer organization where we are losing members quicker than ever.  Our organization has humongous turnover of new members and we spend tons of time figuring out how to entice people to stay... how to retain these people who volunteer their time and efforts.

And then I read part of the reason right here on CAPTalk.  "Hey, I got a great idea.  Let's tell some of our people willing to volunteer their time, their talent and skills and their money for our organization that they just can't play with us, or they have to wear special "distinctive" clothing because they don't look like my idea of what our volunteers should look like."

I shave for CAP, but I don't have a compelling reason not to shave.  Other volunteers do.  We will continue to lose volunteers until this organization realizes that we are not the military, we are not a paramilitary force, and that our effectiveness and success as an organization has nothing to do with how close we look to active duty military.  We are an organization of professionals who give of their time in situations where it does not matter if you have a beard or if you weight a bit more than others when you find that lost hiker, plot those search coordinates, teach a cadet about integrity, or inspire a classroom of school kids with a model rocket. 

Stop needlessly segregating our volunteers so we can look more like the Air Force.  That's a pointless, unproductive goal to have for Civil Air Patrol.  Frankly, I'm willing to bet the Air Force would be much, much, much more impressed with CAP if we just got better at doing our jobs, had more volunteers doing them, and improved our overall organizational effectiveness, rather than if we shunned all of our members into the closet under the stairwell that didn't look like our AF counterparts while simultaneously reducing our effectiveness as a volunteer organization.  But hey, what do I know...

--Mike Kieloch
Member, Administrators of Volunteer Services of CNY
Member, Public Relations Society of America
Member, Association of Fundraising Professionals