WMU Troubles

[SDF_Specialist]

So yesterday, my Commander calls me to help me get a few loose ends tied up in the WMU. What these loose ends were are the Commander's Approval for Prerequisites for CUL, GTL, GTM2 & MS. Me being the ES Officer, I was able to find where they are supposed to be entered in the WMU. While I'm on the phone with him, walking him through step-by-step as to what to click on, and what to enter, he tells me to enter his CAPID for the Commander's approval. I did this, and even said each number of his CAPID as I entered it. When I clicked enter, I got a message at the top of the screen that said the member had either expired or no SET qualifications. My Commander is SET qualed, but it doesn't help that he has no additional ES ratings other than GES. This really started to irritate me (but I maintained ). So I called my former unit commander, since he is the approving authority of all ES quals in my Group. He told me to try entering his CAPID since I went in trainee status in the above mentioned quals. I did, and it accepted this.

Why doesn't the WMU recognize a unit commander's approval for prerequisites regardless of their ES status? Is this a glitch, or are there others who are experiencing this? I was told yesterday that the commander approval is rather a new thing in the WMU. At least I got my quals, but I don't want to have to run back to my old commander if I decide to train in a new specialty. So how do I resolve this?

[IceNine]

Commanders approval is very new to the WMU but Unit approval is not. In order to get a green light on any box on the "input training Qual's" menu must be signed by an approved set for that specialty.  BUT, the individual that input the information will show as the signer.

Regardless of whose number you put into the block your name is going to show.  The WMU is not perfect but it is a great system.  This is just one of the little glitches that we have to deal with if we want the freedom of this system

[SDF_Specialist]

I'm just curious why it required that unit commander to be qualified in the specialty area that another member wants to train in. Luckily, I don't have too much to do in what I'm training for because a majority of it has been taken out training for other specialties.

[Matt]

Responded in PM.

[Eclipse]

Some of you may have noticed that in many of the SQTR's, a lot of tasks are duplicated on the display (or they were as of Thursday evening).

I sent Lt. Col. Anderson a message about this, and his reply indicated that NHQ had updated eServices tables
to reflect the new procedures for CC approval for familiarization and specialties.

Because of this update, he is now recommending that Wings have members use eServices for Ops SQTRs.

He further said that because of some unique features of the WMU, he has agreed no to shut it down, but that he would not be updating it to reflect the eServices changes.

FWIW, I think CC's should have to approve all qualifications for their members as a final safety valve. Once an SET has made the approval(s), it should be up to a CC to make the final sign-off.

As it happens today, members can seek out SETs outside their unit and get completely qualified without their local CC's knowledge, which IMHO, is not kosher, because if that same member goes out and does something wrong, that CC is gonna be in the hearing.

[SDF_Specialist]

Because of this update, he is now recommending that Wings have members use eServices for Ops SQTRs.

Eclipse, here's the predicament I'm in. I was told that entering tasks into eServices is discouraged, and that everyone has to enter tasks through WMU. I have no problem with using eServices as it is easier to understand, and everything shows up properly. So for those of use who are not allowed to enter things into eServices, what can we do to make it easier? There's nothing except to rant and rave to the Wing ESO, which I'm probably going to do at an upcoming SAREX.

[Eclipse]

I wish there was a simple answer.

NHQ has repeatedly indicated publicly that eServices is the only authoritative database for pilot records, missions, and qualifications.

Their response to states still on the WMU is if a Wing chooses to use a 3rd-party "client" for accessing the data, that was the prerogative of the respective states, but they would not specifically support the interactions.

My personal concern since Gen. Bowling ordered all Wings off the WMU (and about 1/2 initially refused), was that anytime you have 2 authoritative databases, you have lots of opportunities for members to get caught in the middle of data quirks.  WMU, IMU, MMU, eServices - whatever, IMHO, the importance is having >one<.  If NHQ says eServices "wins" so be it.

In the last 2-3 years my concern has been that on a whim Lt. Col. Anderson could flip the switch, or NHQ could simply block access, and then the states using it would have a serious problem.

The Colonel's response to my message prompted a directive locally that a plan with a timeline for transition be started immediately.  I have to imagine as members ask the same questions from other states, similar conversations will take place.

[Matt]

I wish there was a simple answer.
[...]

Ditto

[...]
My personal concern since Gen. Bowling ordered all Wings off the WMU [...]

Actually, unless I'm mistaken, the only things that wings HAVE to use eServices for it for Pilot Records.

[...]
then the states using it would have a serious problem.
[...]

Not really, because the DB would maintain itself, then we simply print off records and reenter them, since paper is technically the only thing that makes things exist, there isn't really a problem.  *side note* If I remember correctly, isn't IL also using WMU?

Lastly, could the members not actually reverse and let NHQ know that they'd like a different system, one they prefer over NHQs, one that allows for more functionality and friendlier response times?  No?

[SDF_Specialist]

Well I finally posed the question the my Wing ESO about the WMU not recognizing my Commander's CAPID on the Commander's Approval for Prereqs. He told me that it is fairly new, and that it will recognize his CAPID. Unfortunately, it didn't. I again tried my CAPID, and that worked. So I have a feeling that I'll become the designee as far as ES approvals.

[Camas]

Why doesn't the WMU recognize a unit commander's approval for prerequisites regardless of their ES status?

It might be "permissions" need to be entered for your commander to do this.  He or she can issue those themselves. See PM.

[SDF_Specialist]

Why doesn't the WMU recognize a unit commander's approval for prerequisites regardless of their ES status?

It might be "permissions" need to be entered for your commander to do this.  He or she can issue those themselves. See PM.

Talked to him tonight. Should be taken care of soon.

[SJFedor]

FWIW, I think CC's should have to approve all qualifications for their members as a final safety valve. Once an SET has made the approval(s), it should be up to a CC to make the final sign-off.

As it happens today, members can seek out SETs outside their unit and get completely qualified without their local CC's knowledge, which IMHO, is not kosher, because if that same member goes out and does something wrong, that CC is gonna be in the hearing.

Isn't that how eServices is currently set up? You finish the qual and enter all the data, it goes to the Commander or ESO's box for approval, the ESO should only be approving stuff if delegated by the CC, otherwise the CC hits the yes or no button. And up goes to 1-2 more echelons of command for the same approval.

[SarDragon]

Yes, that is a recent change.

[Eclipse]

FWIW, I think CC's should have to approve all qualifications for their members as a final safety valve. Once an SET has made the approval(s), it should be up to a CC to make the final sign-off.

As it happens today, members can seek out SETs outside their unit and get completely qualified without their local CC's knowledge, which IMHO, is not kosher, because if that same member goes out and does something wrong, that CC is gonna be in the hearing.

Isn't that how eServices is currently set up? You finish the qual and enter all the data, it goes to the Commander or ESO's box for approval, the ESO should only be approving stuff if delegated by the CC, otherwise the CC hits the yes or no button. And up goes to 1-2 more echelons of command for the same approval.

Yes, however not all states have implemented the change to eServices yet.

The above new process, per Lt. Col. Anderson, effectively "broke" the WMU - causing duplicate entries on displayed tables and other weirdness.

One quirk I personally saw, was that to do the approvals, the CC had to be both a CC >and< a qualed SET for that specialty - obviously a problem.

As I said, he indicated he has no intention of fixing this and we should go to eServices for SQTRs.
Saying it doesn't make it happen overnight, and I have been directed to assist my Wing staffers on the transition and a training plan for members.

[SDF_Specialist]

FWIW, I think CC's should have to approve all qualifications for their members as a final safety valve. Once an SET has made the approval(s), it should be up to a CC to make the final sign-off.

As it happens today, members can seek out SETs outside their unit and get completely qualified without their local CC's knowledge, which IMHO, is not kosher, because if that same member goes out and does something wrong, that CC is gonna be in the hearing.

Isn't that how eServices is currently set up? You finish the qual and enter all the data, it goes to the Commander or ESO's box for approval, the ESO should only be approving stuff if delegated by the CC, otherwise the CC hits the yes or no button. And up goes to 1-2 more echelons of command for the same approval.

Yes, however not all states have implemented the change to eServices yet.

The above new process, per Lt. Col. Anderson, effectively "broke" the WMU - causing duplicate entries on displayed tables and other weirdness.

One quirk I personally saw, was that to do the approvals, the CC had to be both a CC >and< a qualed SET for that specialty - obviously a problem.

As I said, he indicated he has no intention of fixing this and we should go to eServices for SQTRs.
Saying it doesn't make it happen overnight, and I have been directed to assist my Wing staffers on the transition and a training plan for members.

I was specifically told to stay away from entering tasks into eServices. I'm not sure what OHWG has against it, but it's just as easy entering the tasks through the WMU as it is in MIMS. I just like MIMS because it takes less time loading.

[Eclipse]

You have to do what the Wing staff dictates, as do we - I wouldn't suggest you change your SOP until directed to do so - at the same time you should make sure that your eServices  quals and currency matches the WMU because eServices is the only thing NHQ recognizes.

All I'm saying is that when the guy writing the program says "don't use it anymore for "x", its time for those charged with the responsibility for the decision to pull the trigger.

[Matt]

[...]eServices is the only thing NHQ recognizes.

*Digs stick into mud*

What about my paper copy signed by the evaluators?  No?

[Eclipse]

[...]eServices is the only thing NHQ recognizes.

*Digs stick into mud*

What about my paper copy signed by the evaluators?  No?

((*sloosh*)) pulls it out.

eServices is the authoritative database that NHQ accepts.

If you have hardcopies, which we all should, they accept those as well, as should anyone else.

[Matt]