CAP as "Slave Labor" at Airshows?!!

[jimmydeanno]

Just sounds like some poor planning on the CAP leaderships part.

All the airshows I've worked we planned prior with the folks we were helping to find out what things would be available/provided and planned accordingly.

The last airshow, not only did our members get paid 10/hour/volunteer but they provided 3 meals and had the little golf carts driving around with water.  Then, the CAP folks scheduled people efficiently enough so the cadets and seniors working had breaks and such so they could enjoy the show as well.

You can't expect to just show up to these things and assume that someone else has taken care of everything for you if you put in no effort before hand other than driving the van there.

[tribalelder]

Years ago (1989 or '90) at 1030AM, at a midwest airport airshow, it became clear that the airshow's promised feeding and  hydration arrangements would be inadequate.  At 1045, one member was retrieving a gas grill from home, another making a dash trip to a wholesale club.  By the first lunch rotation, we were covered.

From a resource management standpoint, supporting guest management at airshows is like a tornado with a known date.

[Chaplaindon]

Having worked a number of airshows in the past, and as a former unit commander, I have two (2) specific issues with the use of CAP members, particularly cadets at airshows:

1.  In my experience cadets and senior members are all-too-often required to wear a service dress uniform (e.g. short-sleeve USAF shirt and trousers and flight/service cap) while performing their duties at airshows.

I have witnessed members doing hard manual labor in a non-work uniform. Service dress is ill-suited and inappropriate for said tasking. In addition the military personnel working the air show wear BDU/ABU (etc.) with CamelBak's and so forth.

If our personnel are to be doing physical work (which includes ropeline duties in 90 degree+ heat) they should be allowed to dress appropriately.

2.  I know that some of that manual labor has included loading and unloading ice and so forth for FOR-PROFIT vendors. CAP should not be providing literally free slave-labor to for-profit vendors. That's especially true for cadets who really can't consent, or who may feel that they cannot refuse, said duties.

[jimmydeanno]

Boy...all these stories are making me scared.  I may have to stop attending other squadrons/wings activities...

I always hear these type of horror stories, but have never actually seen things like this happen.  Guess I'm just lucky.

[Nomex Maximus]

This is all well and good, but what about real ES missions and training exercises? The aircrew does not have the luxury of carrying extra baggage - the back of the Cessna is already full of survival gear. There is almost no room inside for anything more than the three crew members. Each carrying along a flight bag is usually not practical. Also, there is no point to scheduled meals - the aircraft come and go at odd intervals and may be up for four hours atr a time.

Just seems like simple common sense and courtesy that the leadership would make sure that we have a van or a trailer that can be brought along to any mission that is stocked with basics like non-perishable food and water. A supply of MREs would be nice. At the very least make sure that someone can go to the local stores and get some food for the people when they land or return to base. Perhaps we could have another ES specialty rating - Mission Cook? I am serious...

[davedove]

Task F-4102 DETERMINE THE NEED TO SETUP AND OPERATE AN INCIDENT COMMISSARY under the Finance/Admin Section Chief SQTR relates to these issues.  Perhaps more emphasis needs to be put on this.

[JohnKachenmeister]

Years ago (1989 or '90) at 1030AM, at a midwest airport airshow, it became clear that the airshow's promised feeding and  hydration arrangements would be inadequate.  At 1045, one member was retrieving a gas grill from home, another making a dash trip to a wholesale club.  By the first lunch rotation, we were covered.

From a resource management standpoint, supporting guest management at airshows is like a tornado with a known date.

"Supporting airshows is like a tornado with a known date?"

I am SO gonna steal that!

Seriously, you are right.  The reason we support airshows is the training benefit they provide.  Aerospace training by using the LCWA instructional method; and the Emergency Services training in commo, traffic, crowd and circulation control, coordination with other local emergency services providers.  You plan for an airshow the same way you plan for any other mission.  And if you leave your troopers out there without food or water, then it is YOUR fault.  That should have been coordinated.

[Lancer]

Back to the original topic...

I think Ned and jimmydeanno answered the question pretty succinctly.

Poor CAP leadership.

Regardless of the event, proper prior planning by the project officer(s) should be outlined well in advance of the outing.

If something as simple as making sure your people are fed and watered during the activity does not happen, then they have failed at their job. Specifics about who, where, when and how this is going to happen HAVE to be planned ahead of time.

You can't just expect to show up and have someone think about feeding you.

Figuring out the details and lack of planning for mission provisions is fodder for a different discussion thread.

[LeoBurke]

Why would (insert your rank/name here) let it happen?

Let me ask a couple questions:

  1.  Who is responsible for the safety of our people?
  2.  If ANYONE saw a problem, why didn't they raise the issue?
  3.  Who communicated the problem up the chain of command, during or after the incident?

My thoughts...

  1.  ALL of us are responsible. 
  2.  Anyone from a cadet basic on up could say "Sir, its hot.  We're tired and thirsty.  What can we do?"  I can not imagine that at ANY military airshow, if a CAP officer (cadet or senior) approached an Officer or NCO from the host unit and said "CAP has a heat/hydration issue.  We're can we get shade and water?"  That there would not be an INSTANTANEOUS response. 

As a member you always have two choices: 
  a. You can sit there and complain to each other 
  b.  You can get up and do something about it.

  3.  See comment above.  If it wasn't resolved immediately, it should have been escalated.  Over the head of the officer in charge if necessary.  Trust me it will get attention.  There is an entire section of regs dealing with hydration and heat in the CAP and in the USAF regulations.

Any member who participated in this incident and didn't act is as guilty as the officer in charge?  Why?  You had a choice to act correctly.



Leo Burke, Lt Col, CAP
Chief of Safety
Michigan Wing

[LeoBurke]

I've probably worked nearly two dozen air shows where cadets were supporting the airshow by parking cars and/or working crowd control.  It's almost always a hot, shadeless environment.

*snip*

Ned Lee

I thought all the planes were biplanes when you were a cadet.  Shouldn't there have been twice as much shade, sir?

:angel:

[DHollywood]

In our Wing, any "air show" support requires approval of the Group Commander AND the Wing CC.

Before they will grant approval there must be a complete OPSPLAN outlining the hazards, (food, shelter, water, etc included), and how they will be handled.

Our general tendency is we do not support "air shows" unless its on a military facility in which case there is a MSA in addition to the OPSPLAN.

[O-Rex]

A term comes to mind: 'self-sustainment'

Bring your own: if the supported organization springs for lunch, then save the happy-meals for another day. . . .

[Nomex Maximus]

The vending machines at the airport do not count as adequate planning.

[Eclipse]

I got to thinking a little more after my initial post in this thread. At the Cleveland Airshow last weekend, the Ohio Military Reserve was wearing their gun belts with canteens attached. Why isn't this ever an option for CAP? Not that I'm saying that there is a regulation against it, but this should be an option to those who want to participate.

Of course its an option - that or a hydropack, though one should never discount the effectiveness of a 50-cent bottle of water in the BDU pocket.

[RADIOMAN015]

 :-[Well, our Deputy Commander for Cadets along with the other units DID take action on that Sunday to remove the cadets from parking cars when the weather got too hot & their wasn't any support!!! (I'm sure the base security people had water, seems logical as soon as they saw a problem they would react).  The only reason I knew there was a problem (I was sitting at home in a/c over 80 miles away!!!)  because some other radio hobbyists ran an internet feed via teamspeak that used a radio scanner/antenna close to the base/action to monitor both the ground support & aero radio freqs.  I heard security calling into their dispatch basically telling them that CAP was removing their people from the parking detail.  So I asked the question at the next squadron meeting -- How did it go?... I also know that from radio monitoring the entire activity that the military (Air National Guard & other "paid" personnel) seem to be very confused at times (including overreacting at security checkpoints & than completely closing down the checkpoint and just letting people in) and IMHO not running a very good coordinated effort.  We discussed this at the squadron level, and felt that it shouldn't be 16-18 hours of work for cadets (or seniors) for that matter each day.  My feeling is that 4 hours at tops doing work and than let them enjoy the show PERIOD.  I might also add that CAP was looking for close to 100 people and only got around 55 to 60.  SO at that point they should have decided what they could reasonably support and TOLD the air show sponsors.  Again we are VOLUNTEERS, not slaves.  I think the right decision was made when it became apparent that it was a safety problem, BUT when THAT base has another open house don't you think word is going to get around and it's going to be very difficult to get volunteers.   

RADIOMAN015     

Why would (insert your rank/name here) let it happen?

Let me ask a couple questions:

  1.  Who is responsible for the safety of our people?
  2.  If ANYONE saw a problem, why didn't they raise the issue?
  3.  Who communicated the problem up the chain of command, during or after the incident?

My thoughts...

  1.  ALL of us are responsible. 
  2.  Anyone from a cadet basic on up could say "Sir, its hot.  We're tired and thirsty.  What can we do?"  I can not imagine that at ANY military airshow, if a CAP officer (cadet or senior) approached an Officer or NCO from the host unit and said "CAP has a heat/hydration issue.  We're can we get shade and water?"  That there would not be an INSTANTANEOUS response. 

[RiverAux]

I would question the CAP folks who promised them 100 people in the first place if they didn't actually have that many on hand.  Come up a few people short isn't ideal, but can be expected.  But 45-50?

4 hours is probably a good max for that sort of work for cadets. 

[JAFO78]

Gentleman this is a very good topic, and it should serve as a lesson to us all. Always plan for the unexpected. We all should be taking notes on what went wrong and what should be done so this does not happen again.

I feel everyone involved should have a  back up plan. If they (air show) say they will give us this or that then they drop the ball, we as CAP should be able to cover and protect our people.

[Stonewall]

This may sound pompous, snotty, or non-team player like, but I have never "worked" an air show.  Nor would I have ever volunteered to "work" an air show unless we benefited financially or perhaps got to fly in a plane or something.  I've been at air shows where CAP is parking cars or directing traffic, but I flat out refuse to do it, because I know that people will use and abuse free labor.  What does a cadet, or senior for that matter, benefit from parking cars in the hot sun?  Personally, and this is no offense to teenagers, but I really don't want 2 or 3 cadets standing in the middle of thousands of cars trying to find parking for them.  Unless there is a senior member working with ever cadet, I say it's a no-go.

In my mind, we (CAP) is solely a part of the air show, static display side.  We are there to educate and inform folks about CAP and its missions. 

I've been called and practically ordered by Wing HQ to get my squadron out to the "Scott's Games" (Scott's as in Scotland) because CAP volunteered to handle parking, with zero benefit to CAP.  Only because it was a personal favor on behalf of the wing commander at the time.  I even caught heat for refusing to do it. 

On another note, for years my squadron handled trash pick-up at Quantico MCB for the annual Washington Area Girls Soccer (WAGS) championship matches that lasted for 3 days, with more than 10 fields all over the base.  The squadron got between $1000 and $2000.  We wore squadron t-shirts and shorts, provided lunch or planned on an organized lunch locally and even played our own sports during breaks.

Back to air shows.  I could see, and I'd have to be convinced, CAP (specifically cadets) being responsible for parking cars at a small local airshow at a local airport with limited crowds; maybe because the airport allows CAP to use a building or park a plane for free.  Like I said, CAP better be benefiting in some major way for me to allow my squadron to sweat our butts off rather than enjoy an air show.  YMMV.

[Hawk200]

This may sound pompous, snotty, or non-team player like, but I have never "worked" an air show.  Nor would I have ever volunteered to "work" an air show unless we benefited financially or perhaps got to fly in a plane or something.  I've been at air shows where CAP is parking cars or directing traffic, but I flat out refuse to do it, because I know that people will use and abuse free labor.  What does a cadet, or senior for that matter, benefit from parking cars in the hot sun?  Personally, and this is no offense to teenagers, but I really don't want 2 or 3 cadets standing in the middle of thousands of cars trying to find parking for them.  Unless there is a senior member working with ever cadet, I say it's a no-go.

In my mind, we (CAP) is solely a part of the air show, static display side.  We are there to educate and inform folks about CAP and its missions. 

I've been called and practically ordered by Wing HQ to get my squadron out to the "Scott's Games" (Scott's as in Scotland) because CAP volunteered to handle parking, with zero benefit to CAP.  Only because it was a personal favor on behalf of the wing commander at the time.  I even caught heat for refusing to do it. 

On another note, for years my squadron handled trash pick-up at Quantico MCB for the annual Washington Area Girls Soccer (WAGS) championship matches that lasted for 3 days, with more than 10 fields all over the base.  The squadron got between $1000 and $2000.  We wore squadron t-shirts and shorts, provided lunch or planned on an organized lunch locally and even played our own sports during breaks.

Back to air shows.  I could see, and I'd have to be convinced, CAP (specifically cadets) being responsible for parking cars at a small local airshow at a local airport with limited crowds; maybe because the airport allows CAP to use a building or park a plane for free.  Like I said, CAP better be benefiting in some major way for me to allow my squadron to sweat our butts off rather than enjoy an air show.  YMMV.

Well, maybe it is being a "non-team player", but you've got company now. I never really considered it this way, but I will in the future. It's one thing to go find an ELT, that's what we do. It's another thing entirely to waste your day with no payoff.

[Stonewall]

Well, maybe it is being a "non-team player", but you've got company now. I never really considered it this way, but I will in the future. It's one thing to go find an ELT, that's what we do. It's another thing entirely to waste your day with no payoff.

Ref the ELT thing, yeah, that's what we do.  For a lot of us, it's more of a hobby than work.  I don't know anyone that enjoys or dreams of parking cars.