Mess dress, flight suits, oh my.

[sandman]

(Guess the Navy doesn't hang out on boats when they don't have to ).   

They don't want to be mistaken for the waiter. 

lmao   

Er.....(best Bugs Bunny voice) "...will that be one lump or two with your coffee?"

Seriously though; from CAPP 151:

g. If you wear your uniform to civilian social functions,
you must wear the service dress uniform, or mess dress
uniform, or uniform that parallels the civilian dress for the
occasion, that is, coat and tie. You may not wear fatigues or
flight suits to civilian functions.

So far in reading the regs and CAPP 151 there seems to be no prohibition from wearing the uniform at a social function such as one aboard a cruise ship. In fact, it is your choice to do so...."If", in CAPP 151, can be interpreted that way.

It says nothing about CAP social functions ONLY....

(best Bill Clinton voice) "depends on what "if" is...."

As I've stated before on another string....quit crying "we're not worthy, we're not worthy"!

I would certainly wear the mess dress uniform at such a function. We must quit this "best kept secret" stuff and be recognized!

Please, wear the uniform. Wear it properly and with pride.

I would be delighted to see a CAP member all gussied up in his/her best outside of the squadron!

v/r
LT

[flyerthom]

I've take two cruises with Spectacular Cruises. They advertise in EMS journals and Fire Fighter journals. They have packages for Emergency Services providers and encourage the use of dress uniforms for the formal dinners. If I booked with them again I'd not hesitate to use my mess dress. After all I'd be marketing CAP to a group of people we'd most likely work with - and want to recruit.

http://www.spectacularcruises.com/
info

[RiverAux]

I guess I have a hard time stretching CAPM 39-1 to justify wearing a CAP uniform at any function that has nothing at all to do with CAP or the normal duties of a CAP member.  Wearing it on a cruise obviously does not meet any standard of when CAP uniforms may be worn.  It doesn't matter to us what members of the Armed Forces do -- thats their business. 

By the way CAPP151 has no authority in regards to CAP uniform wear according to CAPM39-1:

This publication is the sole source for wear instructions and authorized items for various uniform combinations as prescribed within.

[MIKE]

What does CAPM 39-1 Table 1-1. say?

[RiverAux]

The part where it tells you where you can't wear the uniform has already been quoted.  The part where it tells you when you can wear the uniform has no mention of saying when you can wear it outside of CAP duties.  I seem to recall a stronger statement on this issue in the older version (before they went to the tables) but it looks like I've tossed it. 

[sandman]

What does CAPM 39-1 Table 1-1. say?

Well, since you threw the question out there:

.....Wear of the
AF-style uniforms, as well as the insignia, badges, and devices worn on these uniforms are as
prescribed by the Commander, CAP-USAF, with the approval of Headquarters USAF.

and

Civil Air Patrol prescribes wear policy and the
use of CAP emblems, insignia, and badges on the CAP distinctive uniforms.

and table 1.1 notes as an option:

when attending social activities or dinners on military installations,
the wear of a CAP uniform is not restricted.

Yes it says military installations. Otherwise it is silent on social functions outside of a military installation. The caution that deviations from this manual are not authorized (paraphrased) are in regards to wearing of bling are are ambiguous at best regarding the actual AF uniform.

So, which way do you want to read this? I would prefer the interpretation that when wearing the AF style uniform follow AF rules and regulations. And that means joining the men and women on the dance floor of the cruise ship.....Take along a couple of CAP recruiting brochures to make it legal

Those of you who have a "hard time....to justify wearing [it] at any function" outside of CAP....well don't then. your just adding to the corporate self-loathing endemic within the ranks of CAP.

However, I will keep an open mind if somebody comes up with CLEAR, UNAMBIGUOUS prohibitions against wearing a CAP mess dress uniform to an off base civil social function.....

[RiverAux]

Under this interpretation its just fine if I wear the CAP uniform just about anytime I want and at my total discretion so long as I don't violate one of those prohibitions.  Sorry, just don't buy that. 

[mikeylikey]

Since flight suits are included in the topic heading, has anyone seen those Chinese knock off versions of the green nomex floating around?  I saw one on a CAP guy this evening and had a discussion along......."hope you are not caught in a hot fiery situation, cause that will most likely melt to your skin and be very hard to remove".  I understand the price and money constraints members have, but seriously, don't sacrifice safety for $$.  Oh, don't buy Chinese products also, they are trying to kill Americans.

[Hawk200]

Since flight suits are included in the topic heading, has anyone seen those Chinese knock off versions of the green nomex floating around?  I saw one on a CAP guy this evening and had a discussion along......."hope you are not caught in a hot fiery situation, cause that will most likely melt to your skin and be very hard to remove".  I understand the price and money constraints members have, but seriously, don't sacrifice safety for $$.  Oh, don't buy Chinese products also, they are trying to kill Americans.

Seen a few of those. You can buy stuff just as cheap, in new or near new condition, on eBay. Kinda stupid to nickel and dime yourself to death(which could be literally true), just to wear something brand new. Nothing wrong with looking broken in.

[mikeylikey]

^ Agreed!

[sandman]

Under this interpretation its just fine if I wear the CAP uniform just about anytime I want and at my total discretion so long as I don't violate one of those prohibitions.  Sorry, just don't buy that. 

The point is that CAPM 39-1 is ambiguous except where it says social activities at a military installation. What social activities happen on military installations? My answer is military social activities (including CAP).

At this point I invite your attention to the language in CAPP 151 which clearly states civilian social functions avoiding the term military social function or on a military base exclusively. Otherwise why have a mess dress uniform? It would serve no useful function.

No, I am not advocating wearing of the uniform any time you want. That prohibition is less ambiguous. I am advocating wear of the mess dress uniform for a social event that by custom means after 1800hrs.

[O-Rex]

I have mess-dress, but wife won't be caught dead with me when I'm in uniform.  Went to Syms, bought a Tux for less than what it cost to rent one.  Used it on my last two cruises.

Not only that, but I personally limit CAP uniforms to CAP/Military fuctions.

Anyone remember the old level 1 video where there is a Senior Member in Blockbuster in Service Dress, and a man and his daughter approach him to ask him about it?  I thought it was hysterical. . .

[Al Sayre]

My wife wanted us to go on a cruise.  I told her there is a reason the Navy had to pay me to ride around on a boat, and I can't see spending that kind of money to do it for fun... But I'd say if you want to do it, by all means wear your Mess Dress to formal night, just call it a recruiting opportunity. (Just don't get plowed or start blowing chunks in public...)  YMMV

[brasda91]

I would interpret that phrase from 151 to mean that when you are going to a civilian social function as part of a CAP duty or activity.  For example, if you are giving a speech about CAP to the local Kiwanis club breakfast, then you can wear the CAP uniform.  Or perhaps you, as the CAP Wing Commander, have been invited to an inaugural ball for your new governor, then you would wear your CAP uniform.  But, if you were going to either of these functions on your own and not related to any of your CAP duties, then you would be prohibited from wearing the CAP uniform. 

Actually 151 doesn't specify whether or not you're going as part of CAP duty.  It makes a simple statement regarding social functions.  Quit trying to read into the meaning.   

Trying to read between the lines is a lot of the problems we create for ourselves.  The majority  of the time, if you just read the regs as they are written, they're not hard to follow. 

Hence, Mess Dress is acceptable for a civilian function, whether or not you are there on CAP duty.   

[mikeylikey]

** sigh **

[SAR-EMT1]

I've seen a lot of differing opinions about wearing various uniforms, but here's a question which recently came up:

If you're on a cruiseline vacation, and there's a "formal" night, can you wear your mess dress uniform?

Or should you just rent a tux and let your association with CAP be silent?

Not interested in what you wear under your flight suit, blues, or mess dress.  Not interested in seeing your rack. Just interested in your educated opinion on this topic.

My opinion: Not within regs...but it could be a good recruiting opportunity.  But what do I know?  That's why I'm asking. 

Thanks!

Good to see you on Captalk again Mr Davis. ... I think you and Col. Jack Bagley need to for a CAP broadcasters Association.
Personally I anm not shelling out for the Mess Dress until I make Major.  Or am made a Squadron Commander whichever happens first.

[Smokey]

Here we go again.......

just like in the saluting thread, everyone wants to nit pick....you all sound like Bill Clinton trying to explain what "is" is and whether we are ever really alone.

C'mon folks  .....it won't be long before this thread is locked.

I know it's hard folks.....but let's use some common sense here on this forum.  Regulations sometimes are poorly worded, don't cover every situation and for the most part CAP regs if violated will not subject you to prosecution, especially under the UCMJ. 

While I don't propose wholesale disregard for the regs, what's the worse that can happen to you....a 2b?   Geez .


Wait....ooops...gotta go, a black van just pulled up out fro...................

[JC004]

...
Wait....ooops...gotta go, a black van just pulled up out fro...................

I hate when that happens...

[trekkindave]

They could always  take away your birthday....

[RogueLeader]

...
Wait....ooops...gotta go, a black van just pulled up out fro...................

I hate when that happens...

Thats why you should keep a ma deuce by the front door.  Put a "pet door" next to the front door, then you have a handy-dandy gun port.

They could always  take away your birthday....

Or paycheck, whichever is less expensive to them. . . .