Has anyone bought a CAP plane?

[Nomex Maximus]

A couple of questions about member owned planes in CAP.

1) Has anyone actually bought a CAP plane that was offered on the CAP website? If so is it being used for CAP activities? How well has it worked out?

2) What about mmeber owned planes being used for CAP ES? Does anyone do it? Do you get more missions if you have a plane to bring with you?

I have been toying with the idea of getting a 172 of my own and outiftting it with the appropriate radios and paint job... wondering if anyone else has thought about doing this themselves...

--NM

[bosshawk]

You are probably asking questions that have been asked before, but here goes.

1-the reason that CAP sells any of its aircraft is that the beast is deemed uneconomical to maintain.  The Bonanza that CAWG sold a year or two ago was a piece of junk(IMHO).  The 182 that was recently sold fitted the same description.  An exception: the Maules were fairly new airplanes, but just didn't fit the bill for which they were bought.

2-yes, I have an airplane that I occasionally use on a CAP mission: usually a transport as it is faster than either the 182 or 206.  In the past, I have even used it on a search, but it isn't a good search platform.

3-buying a used 172 and then adding radios and a paint job is likely outside your price range.  Add several thousand bucks for radios and at least 7,000 for a paint job and what do you have?  Also, given the CAP propensity for cease and desist letters, you might have problems if you painted the plane in CAP colors and identified it with CAP.

Advice: buy an airplane that you like to fly: fly it as often as you can and leave your CAP flying to corporate aircraft.

[Al Sayre]

I just received a TDM 136 (CAP FM Aircraft Radio)for our squadron's aircraft.  The price on the ticket was $10,000.00! Yes, that's right, ten thousand United States dollars !  I love CAP, but there isn't a single person on the face of the earth I'd lay 10 grand out of my pocket to be able to talk to on the radio...  YMMV.

[calguy]

I have seen used CAP airplanes on E-Bay and Trade a Plane with red white and blue colors, just no decals.  So maybe the colors would not be an issue.  Radios....$10,000 plus install...get an HT and wire it into the intercom, not great but better than not.  And no STC. Now CAP wants you to get permission to use a member owned aircraft, they really don't want us to use them until we exhaust all the CAP owned first.
The reality is that if we had a mission that required us to search 50 grids, were screwed without member owned aircraft.  It will happen, just when.  CAP is shortsighted on this.

[Nomex Maximus]

Hmmm... the further I get into this CAP thing the more I get the idea they really don't want us to help out with anything... member owned aircraft not very welcome... can't paint the airplane to look like other CAP aircraft... can't use modified amateur band radios on CAP freqs... can't use amateur radio at all... can't use FRS radios for ES... can't get the training I need... can't get access to the airplane and a checkpilot so that I can fly as a CAP pilot... can't seem to get called for any missions... hmmmmm.... they DO seem to want me to provide crowd control at airshows and help fly model rockets...

[Johnny Yuma]

Hmmm... the further I get into this CAP thing the more I get the idea they really don't want us to help out with anything... member owned aircraft not very welcome... can't paint the airplane to look like other CAP aircraft... can't use modified amateur band radios on CAP freqs... can't use amateur radio at all... can't use FRS radios for ES... can't get the training I need... can't get access to the airplane and a checkpilot so that I can fly as a CAP pilot... can't seem to get called for any missions... hmmmmm.... they DO seem to want me to provide crowd control at airshows and help fly model rockets...

The amateur radio and FRS bans aren't CAP driven. This has been hashed and rehashed for years now. You should have enough ISR's in your wing that they're coming out your ears, god knows mine does.

The rest of this sounds like issues on the local/Wing level, not NHQ.

[SoCalCAPOfficer]

Hmmm... the further I get into this CAP thing the more I get the idea they really don't want us to help out with anything... member owned aircraft not very welcome... can't paint the airplane to look like other CAP aircraft... can't use modified amateur band radios on CAP freqs... can't use amateur radio at all... can't use FRS radios for ES... can't get the training I need... can't get access to the airplane and a checkpilot so that I can fly as a CAP pilot... can't seem to get called for any missions... hmmmmm.... they DO seem to want me to provide crowd control at airshows and help fly model rockets...

Thats a complaint of many people who have recently joined CAP.   I found the same thing when I joined four years ago.   What I learned, and I tell my new members, sometimes if you want it you have to go after it yourself.   If you do not seek the activities out that you want, most likely no one is going to come up and ask you to do them.   Maybe it should not be this way, but it is in a lot of situations.

The crowd control and helping with the cadet programs are the easiest to assign people to, because they do not require a lot of training.   If you really want to get on ES missions you have to seek out the training and get it done yourself.   Then after you are trained get on the list to be notified or paged when a mission comes up.   Then, if you want to go,  find yourself a crew if you are a mission pilot, or if not the MP, call around and find yourself a pilot.  I know it seems like hard work just to volunteer your time, but in the end its worth the trouble.

At first I too was only tasked at air shows and the like, but I learned what needed to be done.   I got my Scanner and Observer rating, my form 5, etc.     Eventually, I got to go on SAREX's and Real Missions.   I then volunteered to become the ES training officer, I learned all I could and started teaching Scanners, Observers and UDF and got them rated.    One thing leads to another and I am now the Squadron Commander.

Hang in there.  There is plenty to do.   You just have to make it happen.

[Nomex Maximus]

. . .  One thing leads to another and I am now the Squadron Commander.

Hang in there.  There is plenty to do.   You just have to make it happen.

Hmmm... I want to be NATIONAL COMMANDER...

-- Major General Nomex Tiberius Maximus

[MIKE]

Are you not entertained? - Nomex Maximus (As CAP/CC at National Boards)

[LeoBurke]

1. Yes I have bought an airplane from CAP.  By closed bid, about 10 years ago, got a beat up looking T-41 in very solid mechanical condition.  Had it painted, new carpets, some minor interior work.  Sold it 2 months later for a very decent profit.  Probably had our price too low - first caller bought it sight unseen. 

2.  You can fly your own plane - it was much easier in the old days.  Requires some forms and approvals these days.  Mostly driven by the focus on not putting enough hours on corp aircraft.

[Nomex Maximus]

1. Yes I have bought an airplane from CAP.  By closed bid, about 10 years ago, got a beat up looking T-41 in very solid mechanical condition.  Had it painted, new carpets, some minor interior work.  Sold it 2 months later for a very decent profit.  Probably had our price too low - first caller bought it sight unseen. 

2.  You can fly your own plane - it was much easier in the old days.  Requires some forms and approvals these days.  Mostly driven by the focus on not putting enough hours on corp aircraft.

I'd LOVE to put lots of hours on our plane. In fact, the Squadron CC wants us to put lots of hours on the plane to win the top prop award. But that's sort of hard to do when the plane is not available for a weeks or two at a time every other week or two and when the check pilots aren't around to give check rides.

Hmpf! When *I* become National Commander things WILL be different, let me tell you!

--NM

[Frenchie]

I've known people who have bought CAP planes and were very happy with the purchase.  Generally they sell for not much more than the minimum auction price.  Some are in great shape, some have been poorly maintained.  I would be highly suspect of buying any high performance aircraft from CAP.

As far as using an old CAP plane for a CAP mission, I would say it wouldn't be any different than using any other member owned aircraft.  The CAP insignias must be removed prior to sale.  As far as the radio goes, I don't think it's required to have a CAP FM radio in the plane (I could be wrong on this), but even if it was required, there are some portable options out there.

[Sgt. Savage]

... I want to be NATIONAL COMMANDER...

-- Major General Nomex Tiberius Maximus

With a name like that, you deserve to be EMPOROR!!

You should have enough ISR's in your wing that they're coming out your ears, god knows mine does.

The rest of this sounds like issues on the local/Wing level, not NHQ.

Send some of those ISR's to Maine Wing. We have 6 per squadron.