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CAP Talk  |  General Discussion  |  The Lobby  |  Topic: Webmaster, FacebookMaster, Forum?
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Author Topic: Webmaster, FacebookMaster, Forum?  (Read 3051 times)
Spaceman3750
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 2,559

« Reply #20 on: March 13, 2017, 10:19:55 PM »

Please, please do not put WordPress on a .gov. If you have no choice, keep it updated and do not install plugins unless you absolutely have to.

Our Squadron website is not hosted on a .gov website. Its strictly marketing and hosted elsewhere.  ;)

That's cool; it was intended more as a blanket statement.

I understood it that way.  :)

Keeping it separate. Just easier that way. More flexibility.

I would still keep a close eye on it. Last thing you need is your squadron site to be hosting malware or a phishing landing page, .gov or not.
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"I always wondered why somebody doesn't do something about that. Then I realized I was somebody." - Lily Tomlin
"I'm sorry sir, which tab were we on?"

The moment any commander or staff member considers themselves a gatekeeper, instead of a facilitator, they have failed at their job.
I can't fix all of CAP's problems, but I can lead from the bottom by building my squadron as a center of excellence to serve as an example of what every unit can be.
etodd
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 548

« Reply #21 on: March 13, 2017, 10:20:52 PM »

Its strictly advertising. For internal reminders of meetings, etc, they use Facebook.

I can't even begin to tell you how viscerally that sentence makes me react.  The world is what the world is, neither CAP, nor I,
are (is?) going to change that, but AdBook is no way to run  something like a CAP unit, and no one ever seems to
have a good response to "How do your youngest cadets get the information?".

https://www.facebook.com/terms

"5. You will not use Facebook if you are under 13."

I didn't say FB was the only method. Just that they post reminders, etc. on FB.  They also email, text, and yes ... even use the telephone sometimes.  ;D
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etodd
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 548

« Reply #22 on: March 13, 2017, 10:23:01 PM »


I would still keep a close eye on it. Last thing you need is your squadron site to be hosting malware or a phishing landing page, .gov or not.

I own a website development and hosting company, since 1995. I'm host/developer of the site, pay for it myself, and do watch over all my websites closely. :)
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etodd
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 548

« Reply #23 on: March 13, 2017, 10:27:31 PM »


 no one ever seems to
have a good response to "How do your youngest cadets get the information?".


That one is easy. Who really trusts a 12 year old with email?  For each of the younger Cadets, always have a parent/guardian email address also included in the BCC of each mass email. 
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Ozzy
Seasoned Member

Posts: 250
Unit: NY

« Reply #24 on: March 13, 2017, 10:43:30 PM »

Are you using the new template for your Squadron's local website? I took the Wordpress template and modified it a bit to create ours. Added the Facebook block into the homepage:

http://www.tuscaloosacap.org

It looks good. We've been redesigning our website and it looks pretty good now: www.nassaucapli.com

What do you think?
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Ozyilmaz, SSgt, CAP
C/Lt. Colonel (Ret.)
SGT, ARNG (Out!)

NYWG Encampment 07, 08, 09, 10
CTWG Encampment 09, 11, 16
NER Cadet Leadership School 10
etodd
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 548

« Reply #25 on: March 13, 2017, 10:54:57 PM »

Are you using the new template for your Squadron's local website? I took the Wordpress template and modified it a bit to create ours. Added the Facebook block into the homepage:

http://www.tuscaloosacap.org

It looks good. We've been redesigning our website and it looks pretty good now: www.nassaucapli.com

What do you think?

Very nice! Love the full screen that looks more modern, and yet is responsive for mobile devices. Good imagery.  I just used the 'official' template to get ours started recently, but will be moving in this type direction at some point. Young folks expect to see a website look like yours now.
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Eclipse
Too Much Free Time Award
***
Posts: 27,255

« Reply #26 on: March 13, 2017, 11:10:01 PM »

That one is easy. Who really trusts a 12 year old with email? 

Many people, including a >lot< of schools.  6th grade is about the time they start teaching kids internet safety,
and many schools use Google classroom which include disposable email addresses that are changed each year.

The point was that FB explicitly prohibits use of its service by anyone under 13, yet many squadrons,
and lately even some wings use FB as their only way of contacting members, including cadets.

"Just read it without joining..." doesn't fly, nor does the "Mom said I could just lie about my age..."  BTDT way too much.

For each of the younger Cadets, always have a parent/guardian email address also included in the BCC of each mass email.

Not just the younger ones - its a requirement for all cadets when an adult member contacts them, and your best practice would be
an open /cc, not a /bcc.

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"Effort" does not equal "results".
The contents of this post are Copyright 2017 by eclipse. All rights are reserved. Specific permission is given to quote this post here on CAP-Talk only.

etodd
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 548

« Reply #27 on: March 13, 2017, 11:19:46 PM »


Not just the younger ones - its a requirement for all cadets when an adult member contacts them, and your best practice would be
an open /cc, not a /bcc.

I'm not the one that sends the emails to Cadets. But when I send out emails to pilots or any other group I always send to myself and then add the whole group to BCC. Really annoys me when I get those group emails with 75 addresses in the To or CC field. Such an invitation for spammers. Bad practice to have those emails showing.
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Eclipse
Too Much Free Time Award
***
Posts: 27,255

« Reply #28 on: March 13, 2017, 11:24:38 PM »

I'm not the one that sends the emails to Cadets. But when I send out emails to pilots or any other group I always send to myself and then add the whole group to BCC. Really annoys me when I get those group emails with 75 addresses in the To or CC field. Such an invitation for spammers. Bad practice to have those emails showing.

Agreed, very annoying and unnecessary.
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"Effort" does not equal "results".
The contents of this post are Copyright 2017 by eclipse. All rights are reserved. Specific permission is given to quote this post here on CAP-Talk only.

etodd
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 548

« Reply #29 on: March 13, 2017, 11:31:07 PM »

I'm not the one that sends the emails to Cadets. But when I send out emails to pilots or any other group I always send to myself and then add the whole group to BCC. Really annoys me when I get those group emails with 75 addresses in the To or CC field. Such an invitation for spammers. Bad practice to have those emails showing.

Agreed, very annoying and unnecessary.

Not sure if any of this is what the OP wanted to talk about. I just took it and ran, testing the waters of discussion, and he jumped ship in the night.  ;D
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A.Member
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 1,570

« Reply #30 on: March 14, 2017, 01:30:05 AM »

This topic has been covered so many times...there should be a sticky.  Or at least a notice to use the sites Search function.

Facebook can be part of an online solution but it should not be THE online solution. 

Most squadrons are best served by having a limited online presence or letting their Wing handle it.  Simply put, too many people don't know what they're doing or what their objective is.

It's not perfect but this is still one of the better external/public websites at the Wing level:  mnwg.cap.gov
« Last Edit: March 14, 2017, 01:55:12 AM by A.Member » Logged
"For once you have tasted flight you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards, for there you have been and there you will long to return." - Leonardo da Vinci
Майор Хаткевич
200,000th Post Author
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 5,931
Unit: GLR-IL-049

« Reply #31 on: March 14, 2017, 10:34:07 AM »

your best practice would be
an open /cc, not a /bcc.


Eh...I had a situation with open CCs just a month ago...
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etodd
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 548

« Reply #32 on: March 14, 2017, 12:12:03 PM »



Most squadrons are best served by having a limited online presence....

That is what ours is. Wing handles all the internal member things ... we just have a local website that is strictly geared to marketing. A singular purpose. Anyone in a city that searches for "MyCity Civil Air Patrol" will rarely ever see a Wing website (a few exceptions, like when the Wing hdqrs is the same city LOL). So Squadrons wanting to reach out to the public searching for local Squadrons , and want to be found, should have a targeted website.

But again .... I'm the marketing type guy ... and will leave all the administrative/internal things to others on the Wing and Hdqrs side. I'm just trying to reach potential new members.
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duncan
Recruit

Posts: 8
Unit: RMR-CO-001

« Reply #33 on: March 14, 2017, 07:16:42 PM »

I have developed over 250 aviation-related websites since 1995 on my own well-secured servers with e-commerce, FAA drug testing, etc. Most are heavily database driven, and for lots of larger pilot/related organizations. I truly understand all of your above comments. But that is not my focus. Mission support is, and that goes far beyond WIMRS.

Minor non-responsive portion issues aside, I don't think you understand all that our site offers. There is no way this can be done with WordPress and off-the shelf plugins. Our site has absolute accountability to NHQ source for all member and squadron data. If a member drops out per NHQ, they are automatically removed from all mailing lists and their web permission revoked. When a new Squadron is created, or new officers appointed, it is automatically updated in real time. Posting special info pages and documents in secure "non-public" areas is how we handle lots of things that REQUIRE a central and secure repository per ISO-9000. Example, how do you handle continuity documentation, e.g. what happens when an officer "moves on", how do you fully train their replacment in the myriad of items that are not part of CAPR? Where is that "master" document, who last modified it and when? Our website handles all of this. There is never a need to import somebody's private e-mail list to send out notices.

Cosmetics and getting new members is not "mission critical". Lets' talk about - how are your members notified when a mission is announced? How is this contact list populated and culled? Backup plans?
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Capt. Rob Duncan
IT Director, COWG
CFI-ASMEL-IA, A&P
Eclipse
Too Much Free Time Award
***
Posts: 27,255

« Reply #34 on: March 14, 2017, 08:28:40 PM »

Cosmetics and getting new members is not "mission critical".

It actually is.  UI design is an art, not a science, and these days you're lucky if people read the first sentence of a paragraph.
Between the colors and the confused design, I was turned off to your website in a few minutes, and seriously could not make heads or tales of it.

Website engines like Wordpress and GSites look and work the way they do after years of user testing and study.
Without engagement, the information is useless.

How are your members notified when a mission is announced?
Calendar entries and repeated emails.


How is this contact list populated and culled?

Direct from eServices as the authoritative source.  It's very simple to grab the addresses you need when you need them.

Backup plan?

For?
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"Effort" does not equal "results".
The contents of this post are Copyright 2017 by eclipse. All rights are reserved. Specific permission is given to quote this post here on CAP-Talk only.

etodd
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 548

« Reply #35 on: March 14, 2017, 08:49:30 PM »


Minor non-responsive portion issues aside, I don't think you understand all that our site offers. There is no way this can be done with WordPress and off-the shelf plugins.

Of course not. Thats why I emphasized that the website I built is strictly marketing. Its apples and oranges.

Yes ... you are building a great "Wing" website. I'll step aside now and let the web masters of other "Wing" websites chime in. Thats who you need to talk with. Not us 'little Squadron website folks'.  LOL

« Last Edit: March 14, 2017, 08:55:10 PM by etodd » Logged
etodd
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 548

« Reply #36 on: March 14, 2017, 09:01:50 PM »


... getting new members is not "mission critical".

I see the Recruiting and Retention officers having monthly video chats and I'd bet most would argue your point. Without an influx of new recruits to offset CAPs growing retention problem ... all the websites and databases will be a mute point as servers grow cobwebs.

CAP is a team. ALL players ARE Mission Critical.
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SarDragon
Global Moderator

Posts: 9,732
Unit: NAVAIRPAC

« Reply #37 on: March 15, 2017, 01:18:13 AM »


... getting new members is not "mission critical".

I see the Recruiting and Retention officers having monthly video chats and I'd bet most would argue your point. Without an influx of new recruits to offset CAPs growing retention problem ... all the websites and databases will be a mute point as servers grow cobwebs.

CAP is a team. ALL players ARE Mission Critical.

NO!

Our recruiting program is working fairly well, and has been that way for a long time. Our retention SUCKS!

Every time I go to a wing conference (every two or three years), I hear the same statistic - one half of our cadet population has been in CAP less than one year. That means we lose about half of the people we recruit every year. If we retained as many as 25% of those new cadets, we would have significant growth.
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Dave Bowles
Maj, CAP
AT1, USN Retired
Mitchell Award (unnumbered)
C/WO, CAP, Ret
etodd
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 548

« Reply #38 on: March 15, 2017, 09:18:38 AM »


... getting new members is not "mission critical".

I see the Recruiting and Retention officers having monthly video chats and I'd bet most would argue your point. Without an influx of new recruits to offset CAPs growing retention problem ... all the websites and databases will be a mute point as servers grow cobwebs.

CAP is a team. ALL players ARE Mission Critical.

NO!

Our recruiting program is working fairly well, and has been that way for a long time. Our retention SUCKS!

Every time I go to a wing conference (every two or three years), I hear the same statistic - one half of our cadet population has been in CAP less than one year. That means we lose about half of the people we recruit every year. If we retained as many as 25% of those new cadets, we would have significant growth.

Read my post again. We actually agree.  :)

And read the post I was responding too. I was letting the other fella know that the Recruiting folks are doing a fine job and ARE Mission Critical, as are all CAP members. Its a team.
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duncan
Recruit

Posts: 8
Unit: RMR-CO-001

« Reply #39 on: March 15, 2017, 06:45:17 PM »

Eclipse:

- are your "calendar entries" pro-active, e.g. notification via text messages to smart phones, or do they just sit on your website, waiting for somebody to read them?

- what does "repeated emails" mean? Somebody is tasked with manually sending them over and over? How is recipient list populated?

- so if something needs to be sent, somebody logs to eSevices, manually runs a query and extracts the recipient addresses? Sounds time consuming, and requires eServices operation training, and proper permissions.

- "backup plan" is for if your email or eServices is down.

In our system, for mission alerts, the AFRCC, Sheriff Department, or Alert Officer simply logs into a secure and non-disclosed website, then adds simple text message which is sent to several Alert Officers via a e-list and pagers. These recipients then decide which resource(s) and group(s) need to be notified, and distribute the info via other controlled e-lists. We have multi-level backup plans in case the servers are down, or telephones, and/or CAP radio net. All this automation is well documented and securely saved on website via login passwords and roles.

Recruitment, retention, and "mine is (subjectively) prettier than yours", should be discussed on a different thread. I wish to discuss the steak, not the sizzle.
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Capt. Rob Duncan
IT Director, COWG
CFI-ASMEL-IA, A&P
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CAP Talk  |  General Discussion  |  The Lobby  |  Topic: Webmaster, FacebookMaster, Forum?
 


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