Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?
March 23, 2017, 07:55:36 PM
Home Help Login Register
News:

CAP Talk  |  General Discussion  |  Uniforms & Awards  |  Topic: Attaching the plastic encased grade insignia to the flight suit
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
Pages: [1] Print
Author Topic: Attaching the plastic encased grade insignia to the flight suit  (Read 768 times)
docrameous
Recruit

Posts: 21

« on: March 12, 2017, 07:10:45 PM »

The CAP Knowledgebase article http://capnhq.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/1257/~/attaching-the-plastic-encased-grade-insignia-to-the-flight-suit, indicates that you can use velcro to attach plastic encased grade insignia to the flight suit.

I am just setting mine up for 1st Lt bars and wondered if anyone could recommend how large the loop velcro pads should be to allow for easy change to captain, major, etc.?  Searching 39-1 and online has not yielded an answer.
Logged
Eclipse
Too Much Free Time Award
***
Posts: 27,078

« Reply #1 on: March 12, 2017, 07:58:08 PM »

Duplicate.
« Last Edit: March 12, 2017, 08:01:52 PM by Eclipse » Logged

"Effort" does not equal "results".
The contents of this post are Copyright 2017 by eclipse. All rights are reserved. Specific permission is given to quote this post here on CAP-Talk only.

Eclipse
Too Much Free Time Award
***
Posts: 27,078

« Reply #2 on: March 12, 2017, 08:01:42 PM »

The CAP Knowledgebase article http://capnhq.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/1257/~/attaching-the-plastic-encased-grade-insignia-to-the-flight-suit, indicates that you can use velcro to attach plastic encased grade insignia to the flight suit.

Actually, it doesn't say that at all, it says "members attache it with velcro", that doesn't mean it's the prescribed or preferred way to do it, and the
KB tends to be somewhat..."creative" with answers.

39-1 doesn't mention Velcro because you're suppose to sew it directly on, as is quoted in the link you cite:

"8.2.3.2. Rank Insignia (Officers). Wear regular size plastic encased rank insignia centered on top of each shoulder with bottom edge of insignia placed inch from shoulder seam and attached with clear plastic or OD thread.

With Velcro, it looks terrible, will get caught on the seat belts, and it's not like you're going to change grade that often,
or need to sanitize your uniform after a crash.  Military pilots don't put it on with Velcro, why should CAP?

If you do go that route, it's the same size as the insignia, and make sure they are at least the right color.

Logged

"Effort" does not equal "results".
The contents of this post are Copyright 2017 by eclipse. All rights are reserved. Specific permission is given to quote this post here on CAP-Talk only.

docrameous
Recruit

Posts: 21

« Reply #3 on: March 12, 2017, 08:13:10 PM »

OK... very helpful.  If the velcro has to be the same size as the 1st Lt bars, that means that I will have to sew on new velcro if I promote to Captain. With that being the case, I will just sew the 1st Lt bars on directly as there is no advantage.

Thanks... your posts on these forums are always insightful and helpful.
Logged
Eclipse
Too Much Free Time Award
***
Posts: 27,078

« Reply #4 on: March 12, 2017, 08:20:09 PM »

Is this the dark blue insignia or the clear?

If it's the clear, they are all the same size, which is why some people use Velcro. You're not supposed to cut it down.
Logged

"Effort" does not equal "results".
The contents of this post are Copyright 2017 by eclipse. All rights are reserved. Specific permission is given to quote this post here on CAP-Talk only.

Spam
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 779
Unit: GA-045/CC

« Reply #5 on: March 12, 2017, 08:45:55 PM »

I have had mine attached via Velcro sewn onto the plastic (three different grades - company and field grade) since the early 1990s. They are, IAW the reg language, attached with OD thread. Pads were all the same size.

In contrast to the "opinion" expressed, my experience is that mine looks great (no one has ever noticed that mine are removable until I've removed them), I've never had any problems whatsoever with having them get caught on anything, and I've changed grades several times in the past 20 years (CPT, to MAJ, to LTC) with relative ease.

Why? Because it is compliant, because it looks fine, and because I needed to use the nomex bag for flying at work. WMMV.

V/r
Spam



Logged
SarDragon
Global Moderator

Posts: 9,688
Unit: NAVAIRPAC

« Reply #6 on: March 12, 2017, 11:52:09 PM »

Well, having tried the Velcro route, I'm gonna side with the ugly/PITA camp.

For the most part, it's easier to sew directly to the bag than it is to a same size piece of Velcro. I can't tell you how many times my seat belt took of the LH insignia in my 'Burb. OTOH, I do have my blue cloth insignia sewn to Velcro, and, due to the reduced thickness and better flexibility, I don't have the same issues.

All in all, YMMV.
Logged
Dave Bowles
Maj, CAP
AT1, USN Retired
Mitchell Award (unnumbered)
C/WO, CAP, Ret
Spam
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 779
Unit: GA-045/CC

« Reply #7 on: March 13, 2017, 01:00:38 AM »

I just went and dug mine out (haven't worn any USAF style it in about 3 years due to weight). It occurred to me that I did cut the hook pattern smaller than the dimensions of the plastic, and that after sewing, I'd taken a hot iron on lowest setting and a cloth and slightly overmelted the edges, to keep from having the edges and corners snag anything. You can't tell unless you look very, very closely.

Sorry, I'd forgotten about that... I made LTC at age 29, which was a couple of decades ago...

V/r
Spam
Logged
SPAATZ1315
Recruit

Posts: 8
Unit: RMR-CO-183

« Reply #8 on: March 15, 2017, 02:16:47 PM »

Long story short here. DON'T USE VELCRO. IT IS NOT AUTHORIZED.

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk

Logged
Spam
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 779
Unit: GA-045/CC

« Reply #9 on: March 15, 2017, 02:36:36 PM »

Says your opinion.

R/s
Spam
Logged
Eclipse
Too Much Free Time Award
***
Posts: 27,078

« Reply #10 on: March 15, 2017, 02:57:49 PM »

Duplicate - ignore.
« Last Edit: March 15, 2017, 03:06:32 PM by Eclipse » Logged

"Effort" does not equal "results".
The contents of this post are Copyright 2017 by eclipse. All rights are reserved. Specific permission is given to quote this post here on CAP-Talk only.

Eclipse
Too Much Free Time Award
***
Posts: 27,078

« Reply #11 on: March 15, 2017, 03:05:57 PM »

Says your opinion.

Actually...

...says 39-1:

CAPM 39-1, Page 97 & 100
https://www.capmembers.com/media/cms/M391_E6F33EAAEC28A.pdf

(FDU)
"8.2.4.6. Attaching Accoutrements

8.2.4.6.1. Officer Rank Insignia. Officer rank insignia will be sewn directly to the FDU using clear plastic or OD thread. "


(CFDU)
"8.3.5. Attaching Accoutrements

8.3.5.1. Officer Rank Insignia (Plastic encased or Embroidered on Dark Blue). Plastic
encased officer rank insignia will be sewn directly to the CFDU using dark blue or clear plastic thread. If
embroidered rank insignia is used, use dark blue thread and fold the edges under to create a rectangle that
is 1/8 inch larger than the insignia at its widest and tallest points."



I have had mine attached via Velcro sewn onto the plastic (three different grades - company and field grade) since the early 1990s.

Why? Because it is compliant...

Not any more...
Logged

"Effort" does not equal "results".
The contents of this post are Copyright 2017 by eclipse. All rights are reserved. Specific permission is given to quote this post here on CAP-Talk only.

Spam
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 779
Unit: GA-045/CC

« Reply #12 on: March 15, 2017, 04:00:11 PM »

Eclipse, do you sew them on to the NFL jackets you let your people wear with USAF style?

Plank eye...

Spam



Logged
Eclipse
Too Much Free Time Award
***
Posts: 27,078

« Reply #13 on: March 15, 2017, 04:52:46 PM »

Eclipse, do you sew them on to the NFL jackets you let your people wear with USAF style?

I make sure that those within my AOR wear the uniform parts they wear properly and in a compliant manner,
but I'm not going to refuse participation at an activity because a cadet can't afford a jacket they will grow
out of in 6 months, nor am I going to allow them to compromise their safety for appearance sake. 

That runs counter to both the spirit and the practical historical way the cadet program has been
run for decades.  Your distaste for the practical reality of CAP doesn't change it, nor does it make me a hypocrite,
nor will it change what 39-1 says in regards to the actual subject we are discussing in this thread.

While you're running The Book of Matthew through Google, perhaps you should scroll a little further to 25:40.

In the spirit of mentorship, I suggest you use 2lb-test fishing line instead of regular clear thread,
I've found the clear thread stretches too much in the sewing machine.
http://www.amazon.com/Berkley-Trilene-XL-Filler-Spools/dp/B001H31D96
« Last Edit: March 15, 2017, 04:59:51 PM by Eclipse » Logged

"Effort" does not equal "results".
The contents of this post are Copyright 2017 by eclipse. All rights are reserved. Specific permission is given to quote this post here on CAP-Talk only.

GaryVC
Member

Posts: 79
Unit: PCR-NV-070

« Reply #14 on: March 15, 2017, 06:54:21 PM »

Of course the real question is why we are still using the plastic encased rank when cloth would be so much easier to deal with.
Logged
Spam
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 779
Unit: GA-045/CC

« Reply #15 on: March 15, 2017, 07:49:28 PM »

Eclipse, do you sew them on to the NFL jackets you let your people wear with USAF style?

I make sure that those within my AOR wear the uniform parts they wear properly and in a compliant manner,
but I'm not going to refuse participation at an activity because a cadet can't afford a jacket they will grow
out of in 6 months, nor am I going to allow them to compromise their safety for appearance sake. 

That runs counter to both the spirit and the practical historical way the cadet program has been
run for decades.  Your distaste for the practical reality of CAP doesn't change it, nor does it make me a hypocrite,
nor will it change what 39-1 says in regards to the actual subject we are discussing in this thread.

While you're running The Book of Matthew through Google, perhaps you should scroll a little further to 25:40.

In the spirit of mentorship, I suggest you use 2lb-test fishing line instead of regular clear thread,
I've found the clear thread stretches too much in the sewing machine.
http://www.amazon.com/Berkley-Trilene-XL-Filler-Spools/dp/B001H31D96

Such a nuanced lawyerly way of saying that your hands are pure and that you can bust a reg knowingly and openly, but you feel free to lecture others at will citing chapter and verse.

I find you Pharasaical as an extreme example, sir. As to the spirit of mentorship I find little in your hypocrisy and smugness to emulate or to recommend.

Spam





Logged
SPAATZ1315
Recruit

Posts: 8
Unit: RMR-CO-183

« Reply #16 on: March 16, 2017, 03:53:52 AM »

Says your opinion.

R/s
Spam
Not my opinion. It is regulation. You wear the uniform properly or not at all. Period.

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk

Logged
SarDragon
Global Moderator

Posts: 9,688
Unit: NAVAIRPAC

« Reply #17 on: March 16, 2017, 06:21:10 AM »

Well, not done quite yet.

I looked at the KB answer in the OP, and it is very outdated. I sent a query to them about this. We'll see what happens.

Now we're done, for the moment.
« Last Edit: March 16, 2017, 07:20:50 AM by SarDragon » Logged
Dave Bowles
Maj, CAP
AT1, USN Retired
Mitchell Award (unnumbered)
C/WO, CAP, Ret
Pages: [1] Print 
CAP Talk  |  General Discussion  |  Uniforms & Awards  |  Topic: Attaching the plastic encased grade insignia to the flight suit
 


Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP SMF 2.0.13 | SMF © 2016, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Page created in 0.17 seconds with 20 queries.
click here to email me