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CAP Talk  |  Cadet Programs  |  Cadet Programs Management & Activities  |  Topic: Cadet STEM Badge - Any Updates?
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Mary A
Newbie

Posts: 1
Unit: NCR-MN-021

« on: March 08, 2017, 10:35:43 AM »

I read the locked thread, but it's from Nov 2015.

Anyone have any new info on the STEM and Cyber Badges?
It's appeared in the National Conference Cadet Innovations brochure now 2 years running.

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jeders
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 1,945

« Reply #1 on: March 08, 2017, 04:04:28 PM »

And that's likely where it's going to stay, at least until the re-engineering of the regs is substantially complete.
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If you are confident in you abilities and experience, whether someone else is impressed is irrelevant. - Eclipse
xray328
Seasoned Member

Posts: 474
Unit: IL-189

« Reply #2 on: March 09, 2017, 09:32:56 AM »

Last I heard the Cyber badge was pretty low on the priority list.  That being said I do wish they'd authorize it, or at least the NCSA activity patch for it, nice looking patch that nobody gets to wear


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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DJ Light Chop
Member

Posts: 65

« Reply #3 on: March 09, 2017, 01:45:59 PM »

Considering Aerospace Education is supposed to be 1/3rd of what we do they're not really enticing cadets to do much beyond the little workbooks they need for their next promotion.  Sometimes a trinket is good motivation and may spark interest in some of them for a science or engineering career that may otherwise go unfulfilled.
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Eclipse
Too Much Free Time Award
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Posts: 27,251

« Reply #4 on: March 09, 2017, 02:09:50 PM »

Considering Aerospace Education is supposed to be 1/3rd of what we do they're not really enticing cadets to do much beyond the little workbooks they need for their next promotion.  Sometimes a trinket is good motivation and may spark interest in some of them for a science or engineering career that may otherwise go unfulfilled.

AEX and Rocketry are supposed to fulfill much of the extended AE training and hands-on experiences for cadets, but sadly
many units aren't even aware of the former, and few ever try the latter.

The problem with Cyber is that it is not something which CAP has institutional expertise or success with.  As a whole,
the organizaiton cannot even come up with a coherent strategy to properly manage its personnel or missions, nor even
establish a standard for something as simple as collaboration services, let alone assert that they can train members,
especially cadets, who as modern adolescents are either wholly disinterested in "...why the VCR flashes twelve, they just want free music..."
("BTW, what's a VCR old man?"), or are so far ahead of anything CAP would be teaching them as to be laughable.

And at the squadron staff level, whereas pilots and aviation enthusiasts, though less so every year, are still in relative abundance
(because that's still why many people join), the "Cyber" ability of far too many begins and ends with their @Juno email address,
and their PC's look like malware FTP repositories ("FT what now? How old are you dude?").

And let's remember that CyberPatriot is not a CAP program, CAP is just a participant along with many other similar organizations,
so that doesn't really count, not to mention the participation as a whole makes NCC look viable.  Remove CyberPatriot and
CAP really has no IT-related curriculum whatsoever, and the Senior specialty track is a 10+ year old slapdash that predates the iPADD
by two years and is focused on OPSEC and IT plans for things that don't exist.

Well-intentioned, poorly implemented, never updated, seemingly abandoned.
« Last Edit: March 09, 2017, 02:15:44 PM by Eclipse » Logged

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xray328
Seasoned Member

Posts: 474
Unit: IL-189

« Reply #5 on: March 09, 2017, 03:44:27 PM »

CyberPatriot frustrates me. It seems that the most successful teams have incredibly talented instructors because the curriculum doesn't really prepare the teams to do well at the competitions, at least not well enough to go to the national level competitions.  Successful squadrons are tight lipped on how they achieve their success in the program as well, definitely not a spirit of cooperation there at all.  On top of that, instructors and competitors never get to see what the cadets missed on the images. Ok, you scored a 70, but we aren't going to tell you what you missed.  How are you supposed to learn from that?

Then there's this myth that the CAP Cyber NCSA prepares cadets to do well at these competitions.  ::)  CAP Cyber does NOT prepare them for CyberPatriot.  If you're thinking of sending your cadet down there for that purpose forget it.  It's an awesome program and initiative but these competitions and the NCSA have nothing to do with each other.  Maj Stauffer and staff do an excellent job, but they will tell you themselves that CyberPatriot is not what they teach (not even close).  The CAP Cyber initiative, in my opinion, is much bigger/striving for better things.

And I agree, let the cadets wear the badge or the patch...something to recognize the extra night a week and countless hours spent preparing for the competitions (not to mention the instructors).
« Last Edit: March 09, 2017, 03:49:42 PM by xray328 » Logged
dcyberguy
Newbie

Posts: 1
Unit: SWR-TX-007

« Reply #6 on: March 09, 2017, 04:29:16 PM »

To answer everyone's question regarding cyber-related uniform items:

- NCSA patch has been approved by the National Uniform Committee and awaiting the NHQ/CC approval. Once this is done, they will be sent to Vanguard for creation and purchase
- The Cyber Badge initiative has been put on hold for now. The NHQ team and I are working on a plan to make this more of an incentive than getting a PIN to wear on the uniform.
- The cyber competition ribbon, similar to the NCC ribbon, is still in the works.

The Cyber Defense Training Academy (CDTA) was originally designed to better prepare our cadets for CyberPatriot. But in the past few years my staff, the USAF, and the commercial industry realize that putting you on track for a career in cyber (and getting you paid big $$$$$) is better than training you to compete for just one type of competition. We hope that the skills you learn during the Cyberspace Familiarization Course (CFC), Cyberspace Advanced Course (CAC), and the Cyberspace Networking Course (CNC) will aid you in all types of competitions, like CyberPatriot, but is not our focus. Furthermore, you will get the opportunity to experience a national-level CyberPatriot like challenge called the GRADEX during the CFC.

You are right that CyberPatriot is not CAP Cyber! Its just one aspect of our program. I believe that it is not enough for our cadets to just get classroom and book instruction. Our cadets need to put their skills to the test; CyberPatriot is one way. Come to the summer NCSA's and you will get an idea of what I mean.
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Spam
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 800
Unit: GA-001/CV

« Reply #7 on: March 10, 2017, 10:22:22 PM »

Welcome, cyberguy, and thanks for that informative first post!

Indeed, I'll take you up on the offer; I'm sending my middle son C/LT to the 2017 Maryland CFC, and he's eager (the patch btw is not at all a factor, don't think he even knew there was one). When will any logistics details be out, so that we might start planning/reservations to get him up there?

Thanks
Spam

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Paul Creed III
Forum Regular

Posts: 168
Unit: GLR-OH-254

« Reply #8 on: March 11, 2017, 10:27:39 AM »

Welcome, cyberguy, and thanks for that informative first post!

Indeed, I'll take you up on the offer; I'm sending my middle son C/LT to the 2017 Maryland CFC, and he's eager (the patch btw is not at all a factor, don't think he even knew there was one). When will any logistics details be out, so that we might start planning/reservations to get him up there?

Thanks
Spam

Final details (MOA, etc) with the host are being finalized now for CDTA-Maryland.
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Lt Col Paul Creed III, CAP
Great Lakes Region Cyber Programs Officer
Ohio Wing Group 3 Commander
etodd
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 545

« Reply #9 on: March 11, 2017, 01:02:02 PM »


 Remove CyberPatriot and CAP really has no IT-related curriculum whatsoever....


I don't see how its possible. At least not in an in-depth way. If CAP had started developing a great IT program centered around Windows 7 ... it would just be approved and ready to roll out now while Windows 10 is out.   >:D   At the snail's pace CAP runs ... it'll never be feasible. Forever far behind.

I think the key would be to not develop an IT program from scratch, but use some types of online free resources. Give the local squadron IT instructor latitude to change with the flow of the times, and develop local tests based on what he/she has taught.  But I realize this idea would really irritate those at higher levels who want to be in charge of developing 'the course'.

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Eclipse
Too Much Free Time Award
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Posts: 27,251

« Reply #10 on: March 11, 2017, 02:01:08 PM »

National organizations need national standards.

IT people know that the majority of tools, techniques, and even software that worked on Windows 95, still
work, or are appropriate today, for Windows 10.  I still have any number of utilities from the mid-90's
that I use today, and a best-practice is a best practice.

Further, the shift towards browser-based everything means that the "MAC vs. PC. vs. Other" debate is pretty
much null and void these days, but again, best practices for security, data storage, live vs. dead documents,
etc., etc., remain a fair constant as technology evolves.

Every time I get a spreadsheet from an @Juno email with "please update and return", the vein in my forehead
gets a little more prominent.

I would agree, however that CAP tends to be far too focused and excited about SKUs vs. technology, the result being
all the eggs in one basket wind up broken on the floor or rotting in the back of the fridge.  Look at A.R.C.H.E.R., SDIS,
GIIEP to some extent, and other similar initiatives that were already outdated when CAP finally got around to "deciding",
and antiquated by the time they were in anything close to general use.

For 15 years CAP has been discussing airborne photography, insinuating that real-time images are critical, when in fact they
are a rarely needed, but nice value-add.  So instead of concentrating on teaching good photography techniques and reducing
sortie cycle times, NHQ is constantly trying to reach for the holy grail of tech that really only exists in the movies, or is not
affordable in CAP's world.  So it's gets poor results >and< high cycle times, etc., etc.
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"Effort" does not equal "results".
The contents of this post are Copyright 2017 by eclipse. All rights are reserved. Specific permission is given to quote this post here on CAP-Talk only.

Eclipse
Too Much Free Time Award
***
Posts: 27,251

« Reply #11 on: March 11, 2017, 02:07:02 PM »

The other things is that CAP, on the whole, will never fix the "@juno problem", however it could get its
own house in order for personnel and mission management, so that the tone and example is set
at the highest and lowest levels it can control (I would argue down to at least the Region and all
national activities.)

How seriously can you take anyone who sends you an urgent message about the critical nature of
fixing email signatures that itself contains an incorrect email signature?

Also, is it that hard to trim the 20-level forward off a message so you don't expose every email address in
the chain, not to mention try to insure the message comes to the top?

Rinse, repeat.
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"Effort" does not equal "results".
The contents of this post are Copyright 2017 by eclipse. All rights are reserved. Specific permission is given to quote this post here on CAP-Talk only.

Spam
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 800
Unit: GA-001/CV

« Reply #12 on: March 11, 2017, 04:42:27 PM »

I would take it about as seriously as the cadet Leadership Lab chapter referenced in another discussion a couple days ago - the one which teaches cadets how to construct good essays and proofread them, yet itself contains multiple egregious spelling errors.

Yet, we must start somewhere when we believe that a particular curriculum set needs to be taught. The problem is that CAP consistently fails to play to our strengths (leveraging the willing inputs of thousands of volunteer member subject matter experts) vice retaining editing power in the hands of the anointed few who keep it hidden behind the curtain and then pop a massively flawed product on us.

V/r
Spam

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Spam
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 800
Unit: GA-001/CV

« Reply #13 on: March 11, 2017, 04:43:54 PM »

Note: I need to amend that input to note that the "proving grounds" section of the CP site is a fine, fine, step in the right direction. Kudos there.

V/r
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CAP Talk  |  Cadet Programs  |  Cadet Programs Management & Activities  |  Topic: Cadet STEM Badge - Any Updates?
 


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