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CAP Talk  |  General Discussion  |  Membership  |  Topic: Boundary concern at work
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rpayne88
Recruit

Posts: 10
Unit: MER-MD-140

« on: March 05, 2017, 01:49:41 PM »

I work at Tipton Airport (KFME) in central Maryland.  Its a Sunday, meaning I'm the only airport employee here. 

I'm also just crossed over to the dark side.

I just had a cadet from another squadron walk in for an o-flight about 15 minutes early.  The orientation pilot is not here yet.  Is this a boundary concern or, due to the fact I'm employed here, not.
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NIN
VIP

Posts: 4,433
Unit: of issue

« Reply #1 on: March 05, 2017, 01:55:19 PM »

Does he know you're a CAP member? :)

I'd think "Probably not," its not like you have to go grab the line boy for Cadet Protection every time a cadet drives past the airport.

Now, I'd also not be spending any time talking to him unless there is a 2nd person there, etc. If he's sitting in the lounge waiting for the pilot, and you're out schlepping fuel hoses, I can't see why thats an issue.  This is your civilian employment.

That said, you might want to drop your commander or supervisor a note and say "Hey, by the way..."
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Darin Ninness, Lt Col, CAP
Sq Bubba, Wing Dude, National Guy
The contents of this post are Copyright © 2017 by NIN. All rights are reserved. Specific permission is given to quote this post here on CAP-Talk only.
Eclipse
Too Much Free Time Award
***
Posts: 27,267

« Reply #2 on: March 05, 2017, 02:08:28 PM »

That said, you might want to drop your commander or supervisor a note and say "Hey, by the way..."

Yep - "Just FYI, I work here so if cadets are coming by for O-rides, best to have mom and dad stick around until the pilot is here..."

Beyond that, unless you start taking cadets on "private tours", then nothing to worry about.
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"Effort" does not equal "results".
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Mitchell 1969
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 565
Unit: PCR-CA-051

« Reply #3 on: March 06, 2017, 06:08:42 AM »

That said, you might want to drop your commander or supervisor a note and say "Hey, by the way..."

Yep - "Just FYI, I work here so if cadets are coming by for O-rides, best to have mom and dad stick around until the pilot is here..."

Beyond that, unless you start taking cadets on "private tours", then nothing to worry about.

And no asking "Do you like gladiator movies?"
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_________________
Bernard J. Wilson, Major, CAP

Mitchell 1969; Earhart 1971; Eaker 1973. Cadet Flying Encampment, License, 1970. IACE New Zealand 1971; IACE Korea 1973.

CAP has been bery, bery good to me.
MSG Mac
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 1,717
Unit: MER-MD-071

« Reply #4 on: March 06, 2017, 11:31:20 AM »

Let their Squadron Commander know the cadets are being dropped off without supervision.
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Michael P. McEleney
Lt Col CAP
MSG USA (Retired)
Eclipse
Too Much Free Time Award
***
Posts: 27,267

« Reply #5 on: March 06, 2017, 11:47:28 AM »

Let their Squadron Commander know the cadets are being dropped off without supervision.

That to me is more of a concern then boundary issues at a public place of employment.  An airport is no
place for unescorted adolescents to be "hanging out", especially in uniform.

When we do o-rides, we make a point of having parents come in an wait for the pilot until the flight leaves.

I suppose this could be an older / self-driving cadet, but it's still an issue.

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"Effort" does not equal "results".
The contents of this post are Copyright © 2017 by eclipse. All rights are reserved. Specific permission is given to quote this post here on CAP-Talk only.

Brad
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 764
Unit: MER-SC-020

« Reply #6 on: March 19, 2017, 10:44:50 AM »

I agree with what Eclipse pointed out, that is the bigger concern.

In regards to your original concern, as Col Ninness said, I feel that based on the information provided, you would come under an exemption or two of the two-deep rule. CAPR 53-10 section 2-7c:

Quote
(3) Professional Relationships. Relationships of a professional nature between adult leaders and cadets (e.g. teacher/student, doctor/patient, clergy/congregant, etc.) are not improper, and substantial contact outside of CAP activities may occur, provided the interactions are made in the context of the professional relationship.

(4) Other Organizations. An adult leaderís and cadetís mutual membership in another organization is not improper, and substantial contact outside of CAP activities may occur when the interactions are made expressly for the purpose of participating in that organizationís activities (e.g. a cadet and senior join a Ham radio club and interact at radio club events, IAW club rules).

Are you in CAP? Yes. Is the Cadet in CAP? Yes. Are you on CAP business? No, you're at your job doing airport stuff. So, as previously mentioned, "keep it professional."
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Brad Lee
Maj, CAP
Assistant Director of Communications
SCWG
Sandlapper 41
K4RMN
TheSkyHornet
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 828

« Reply #7 on: March 19, 2017, 03:35:33 PM »

As stated above, keep it professional.

On my first CAP visit, before joining, I walked into the room and there was a senior member and a 16 or 17-year-old cadet (can't remember which exactly). Did the little talk/tour. Then I remember having the discussion about the adult-cadet boundaries. I specifically remember being told, "For example, had you not shown up, I would have had to leave the room or have the cadet leave the room because we really shouldn't be together in the same space without a third person." It turns out the cadet showed up to the meeting space an hour early while this senior member was trying to get some administrative work done.

My thoughts:
"You were going to have this kid wander around an airport alone/unsupervised?"

Now, coming from someone who was at airports since I was in my mid-teens, most teenagers really wouldn't have an issue wandering around an airport alone. But they really shouldn't have some sort of supervision. You never know.

As my CAP career has progressed, I have to say, I highly disagree with leaving them alone. CAP may have an issue with seniors and cadets being in the same space alone, but there's also a legal issue if I know of a cadet who is there without any parents and I'm the only adult present. In fact, per state law, I become the liable party. It's just like if mom drops off her child at another kid's birthday party; the parents hosting the party become responsible for that kid's safety. You don't go "Not my kid, not my problem" and then the kid ends up falling off the garage roof because nobody supervised.

We had a case where we were meeting at our off-site location one weekend for field training. The cadet went to the home base rather than meeting at the instructed location about 15 miles away. Mom dropped him off at 0900 in the parking lot. He walked inside, and wondered where everyone was at. Turns out, he waited for nearly an hour before asking the airport manager to borrow a phone. And he didn't call mom. He called his flight sergeant, who was in the field at the time. Nobody could get in touch with his parents. We sent two seniors back to the airport to find him and wait with him (2-deep). When they arrived, nobody was there. Airport manager said, "I don't know. He used the phone, went downstairs. I didn't see him again." Okay, you had a 15-year-old waiting at the airport by himself, and you didn't supervise. Now he's missing. We later found out his stepdad came and got him. But this is when you, as the adult, do not just leave them off to wander around on their own.

Yes, kids needs to learn to grow up and get into mischief. It's good for them. But there comes a point when you have a legal responsibility for their safety. Walk him around the hangar. Show him the planes. Or just have him sit there and wait. It is what it is. Be professional, and be safe. I'll even call my Commander or send an email to my staff to let them know. I can't change the fact that they're there unsupervised.
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Eclipse
Too Much Free Time Award
***
Posts: 27,267

« Reply #8 on: March 19, 2017, 03:58:06 PM »

It's not worth it to debate state law in regards to supervision, plus with courts the way they are today, who knows who is liable for what,
but certainly a good idea to be aware of the way things might evolve in those situations, and make yourself aware of the legal climate in your AOR.

More to the point, though, is as you say, transparency and visibility.  The regs are clear, and also account for the occasional unforeseen situation
where a senior finds himself 1-1 with a cadet because of circumstances beyond everyone's control.

In those cases, the ubiquitous and uncommon "common sense" should prevail - ask any other adult, even a non-member to be present,
physically separate yourself in a way that still allows supervision, or start calling people, even the Wing CC, and ask "now what?"  This public,
visible rare occurrences are not the grooming behaviors or "closed door" situations that put everyone at risk.

Keeping the cadet(s) safe should always be our first priority, while at the same time doing everything we can to not open ourselves,
or the corporation to undue risk, either.
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"Effort" does not equal "results".
The contents of this post are Copyright © 2017 by eclipse. All rights are reserved. Specific permission is given to quote this post here on CAP-Talk only.

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