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CAP Talk  |  Operations  |  Emergency Services & Operations  |  Topic: Maps for Ground Team Work?
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Author Topic: Maps for Ground Team Work?  (Read 637 times)
CAPLTC
Recruit

Posts: 19
Unit: MER

« on: March 04, 2017, 09:13:32 AM »

Re-asking a question last seen here in 2010.
Whatcha got?

Quote from: RiverAux
What maps are you using in the field for ground team work?
« on: May 03, 2010, 11:25:50 PM »   
Much of the ground team task guide assumes that CAP ground teams are going to be using traditional full-sized USGS quad maps while out in the field.  While these are certainly useful for teaching maps skills in the classroom and perhaps while on a regularly used training site that you actually have full-quad for, it is just not practical to use them for actual SAR work.  Why not?  Well, who has a library of the hundreds of quad maps it takes to cover an entire state? 

So, when your ground team gets the call to go on lost person case out in the woods somewhere, what are you using for maps of the operational area?

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Luis R. Ramos
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 2,364

« Reply #1 on: March 04, 2017, 11:02:45 AM »

The statement about "topographical maps are not practical since no one has a library of them" is not applicable anymore. Nowadays you can go to the US Geological website and download just as you need them. It takes no more than one minute. You can print the panels individually. I prefer to have the actual complete maps as I find taping together the panels a PITA, but whenever I order one I also download the map. Having that map in my computer beats a problem with the printed maps. As you get older your eyesight deteriorates. In order to see some details, having that map in the computer can enlarge a certain section!  ;)

I have also printed the FAA map for some airports.
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Squadron Administrative Officer
Squadron Communication Officer
Squadron Emergency Services Officer
Eclipse
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« Reply #2 on: March 04, 2017, 11:20:52 AM »

Google.

Earth.
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waukwiz
Recruit

Posts: 34
Unit: GLR-WI-048

« Reply #3 on: March 04, 2017, 12:07:43 PM »

In WIWG, I've predominantly seen and prefer for myself Delorme State Atlas and Gazetteer. All the little airfields are marked in the newest one, which is incredibly convenient.

Sent from my Bacon, Egg & Cheese McGriddle using Tapatalk

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Cadet Cullen Mayes
Waukesha Composite Sq.
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lordmonar
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« Reply #4 on: March 04, 2017, 12:29:13 PM »

In WIWG, I've predominantly seen and prefer for myself Delorme State Atlas and Gazetteer. All the little airfields are marked in the newest one, which is incredibly convenient.

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+1.   The Delorme atlas is a good compromise between the USGS topo maps and a WAC.

I also use them as a scanner because they have better road representation the aviation charts.
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PATRICK M. HARRIS, SMSgt, CAP
Pacific Region
Jester
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Posts: 115

« Reply #5 on: March 04, 2017, 01:27:56 PM »

Why don't wings have all the applicable topo maps for their AOR?  You'd think they could just make a mass purchase and store them electronically for units to use for training and operational missions.

Disclaimer: this very well may exist and I just don't know about it.
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Eclipse
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« Reply #6 on: March 04, 2017, 01:49:07 PM »

Why don't wings have all the applicable topo maps for their AOR?  You'd think they could just make a mass purchase and store them electronically for units to use for training and operational missions.

No bucks, no Buck Rogers - who is paying for this?

If it's public info, the team leader or other staffer can just go and get it when they need it, but if it's something with a license
or copyright, then you have issues of expense, scale, and distribution.

I've personally never needed more then a gazetteer, and in the last 5 years, only have them around for
training others as electronic resources have outpaced them in ease of use and accessibility.
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LSThiker
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 1,663
Unit: Earth

« Reply #7 on: March 04, 2017, 02:30:58 PM »

Why don't wings have all the applicable topo maps for their AOR?  You'd think they could just make a mass purchase and store them electronically for units to use for training and operational missions.

Disclaimer: this very well may exist and I just don't know about it.

You can download any USGS Topo map here for free:

https://store.usgs.gov/b2c_usgs/usgs/maplocator/(xcm=r3standardpitrex_prd&layout=6_1_61_48&uiarea=2&ctype=catalogEntry&carea=%24ROOT)/.do
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LTC Don
Seasoned Member

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JoCo CAP
« Reply #8 on: March 06, 2017, 10:33:46 AM »

While USGS is improving the library of maps available, beware that they may not be user friendly since the introduction of the USNG system, much less the MGRS. 

Additionally, if your state is USNG for missing person search, and you aren't training to that standard, that's a problem. Using maps that don't already have the 1000m grid squares is a pain.

Lots of resources available for USNG and MGRS training out there, including Youtube.  https://mappingsupport.com/p/coordinates-usng-google-maps.html


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Donald A. Beckett, Lt Col, CAP
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Gill Rob Wilson #1891
coudano
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Posts: 1,086

« Reply #9 on: March 06, 2017, 10:43:33 AM »

I've always just rolled with the gazeteer.

A LONG time ago, we used to keep a map case with county maps that showed roads and even property lines...   but guess how often that got used...   ill give you a hint...

Get a gazeteer and roll with a smartphone and you should be allright
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NIN
VIP

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« Reply #10 on: March 06, 2017, 11:15:45 AM »

The HQ for Delorme is about an hour and change away in Maine. 

They have a small store with things in it, strangely, 85% of what they have is *not* maps.

But man, I get the *coolest* toys when I go there.
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Darin Ninness, Lt Col, CAP
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MSG Mac
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« Reply #11 on: March 06, 2017, 11:27:04 AM »

The gazetteer also comes on CD/DVD disk that is broken down by region.
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Michael P. McEleney
Lt Col CAP
MSG USA (Retired)
Luis R. Ramos
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 2,364

« Reply #12 on: March 06, 2017, 01:03:16 PM »

How many of you can use USNG on the field? And how / what equipment you take to the field?

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Spaceman3750
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« Reply #13 on: March 06, 2017, 01:10:28 PM »

How many of you can use USNG on the field?

I can, and vastly prefer it to lat/long, but since CAP is an aviation organization it is often not practical in the real-world, sadly.

I do still believe it is a great skill to teach (though I teach UTM, which is mostly equivalent), not only to grant a deeper understanding of maps, but so that when working with other agencies even if we don't use lat/long internally, we don't give them a blank stare if they give us a string of 8 or 10 numbers instead of lat/long.
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LTC Don
Seasoned Member

Posts: 344
Unit: MER-NC-143

JoCo CAP
« Reply #14 on: March 06, 2017, 01:50:28 PM »


I can, and vastly prefer it to lat/long, but since CAP is an aviation organization it is often not practical in the real-world, sadly.

It's not that it's impractical.  Aircrews should be as proficient at transitioning from Lat/Long to USNG/UTM as ground crews are to Lat/Long.  It's a training doctrine thing (and again, that pesky CAP sandbox attitude thing) that affects multi-agency relationships up and down the line.
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Donald A. Beckett, Lt Col, CAP
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Gill Rob Wilson #1891
docrameous
Recruit

Posts: 21

« Reply #15 on: March 06, 2017, 02:52:33 PM »

We use caltopo for free... put your UTM grids on, add any other features, then print on a color printer.  If you need larger maps, this last weekend we set up 11 x 17 maps and had them printed at Kinkos.  I think you can even upload them to Kinkos (or Federal Express printing) and they will be waiting for you when you arrive.

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EMT-83
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 1,760

« Reply #16 on: March 06, 2017, 03:35:07 PM »

There's a reality show on Animal Planet called Northwoods Law, about game wardens in Maine and New Hampshire. It's actually pretty good.

An episode aired this weekend showing coordination between a ground team and a Cessna. Guess what they were using? That's right, Gazetteers.
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EMT-83
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 1,760

« Reply #17 on: March 06, 2017, 03:38:50 PM »

The HQ for Delorme is about an hour and change away in Maine. 

They have a small store with things in it, strangely, 85% of what they have is *not* maps.

But man, I get the *coolest* toys when I go there.

Eartha!
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SarDragon
Global Moderator

Posts: 9,737
Unit: NAVAIRPAC

« Reply #18 on: March 06, 2017, 07:17:47 PM »

I only do UDF, cuz I'm getting too olde to go tromping in the woods. For paper charts, I carry a gazetteer and a gridded aero chart. I also have Delorme Topo on a laptop. Those pretty much meet my needs. I can print 11 x 17 at home if I need anything else.
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Dave Bowles
Maj, CAP
AT1, USN Retired
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C/WO, CAP, Ret
CAPLTC
Recruit

Posts: 19
Unit: MER

« Reply #19 on: March 06, 2017, 07:28:08 PM »

How many of you can use USNG on the field? And how / what equipment you take to the field?

What else would one use?
The standard for ES is USNG.
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"Find the enemy that wants to end this experiment (in American democracy) and kill every one of them until they’re so sick of the killing that they leave us and our freedoms intact." -- SECDEF Mattis
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CAP Talk  |  Operations  |  Emergency Services & Operations  |  Topic: Maps for Ground Team Work?
 


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