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LTCTerry
Recruit

Posts: 19
Unit: NHQ-119

« on: February 28, 2017, 04:54:02 PM »

I picked this forum since my issue doesn't seem to fit elsewhere. I need some help...

I am in a CAP flight on an Army base in Germany. We come under a squadron on an Air Force base about 90 minutes away. We are working on our renewal paperwork as a Private Organization. The process has come to a stop because someone has decided we're a government agency rather than a private org. At first it seemed like it would be better to be a government organization - we wouldn't have to do the private org paperwork every second year. It actually turns out that it's going to be better to be a private org. I spoke to the deputy garrison commander today. He's my boss's boss, and I see/brief him frequently. We get along well. But - if we are "part of the Air Force" then the Army has no duty to provide us space. If space is provided, we would be expected to pay rent and utilities. If we are a private org like boy/girl scouts, explorers, spouses' club, etc. then space is free.

So, I need to make the case that we're not part of the government... (Actually the JAG guy working this would like it to be that way, too.)

Where are CAP squadrons/flights on Army bases? What is their relationship with the garrison?

CFR 10 9441 (?) states that CAP is NOT an instrumentality of the federal government with the exception of USAF-funded missions - none of which we can legally do here.

I've been told that Title 10, 9XXX provides somewhere that federal agencies may provide support to CAP. Where?

The deputy told me that I can't use USAF Regulations/Instructions to make my case because the AF can't make the Army support CAP.

Somewhere, in some CAP publication I have read that if the unit is on a military installation and the local commander wants certain policies to be followed that it's OK to do that. Where is that found?

How can I 1) prove that we're NOT gov't here, 2) the Army may provide support, and 3) win my argument? I think the deputy wants to say yes. He pointed out to me that I am writing the garrison strategic plan for the next few years on how we are going to face "doing less with less" and I'm asking him to give me free space...

Terry
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Eclipse
Too Much Free Time Award
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Posts: 27,980

« Reply #1 on: February 28, 2017, 05:02:40 PM »

You probably need to get NHQ involved sooner then later, being overseas adds a special wrinkle to everything, I would imagine.

The comments about CAP being part of the USAF and not the Army are technically correct, and the Army isn't required to
provide them anything.  With that said, a lot of the AFIs discuss reciprocal support for other branches, which is one of the ways we've gotten Navy support over the years in my AOR.

And CAP >is< a 501c(3) private organization as per the charter, but unfortunately it's not uncommon for CAP units to have to pay usage
fees for facilities, even military ones, and especially Guard bases.

This would be a place where "Total Force" should come into play - a Blue Colonel over here should be able to call a Green Colonel over
here, exchange coins, and get you some place you don't need to renew every year.

AFI 10-2701 Provides verbiage regarding military installation support.
https://www.capmembers.com/media/cms/AFI_102701_20470E7786898.pdf

And issues like this is what we have the LR-ADOs, but again, that's in CONUS.
« Last Edit: February 28, 2017, 05:08:47 PM by Eclipse » Logged

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The contents of this post are Copyright 2017 by eclipse. All rights are reserved. Specific permission is given to quote this post here on CAP-Talk only.

Trenzalorian
Member

Posts: 91
Unit: NER-NY-406

« Reply #2 on: February 28, 2017, 05:04:28 PM »

My squadron's on an Army Airfield. I can talk to our "Officer" side and see how they manage our building space.
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LTCTerry
Recruit

Posts: 19
Unit: NHQ-119

« Reply #3 on: February 28, 2017, 05:10:02 PM »

Quote
You probably need to get NHQ involved sooner then later, being overseas adds a special wrinkle to everything, I would imagine.

Eclipse - that's actually a good idea. Thanks.

Quote
My squadron's on an Army Airfield. I can talk to our "Officer" side and see how they manage our building space.

Trenzalorian - yes, please.

My deputy commander was at Ft. Bragg when Pope AFB went away. It didn't become a joint base, it was all Army at that point. CAP asked about staying and was told about paying...

Terry
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FW
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 2,138

« Reply #4 on: February 28, 2017, 05:43:25 PM »

CAP, Inc. is a non-profit corporation chartered by congress.  It is only considered an instrumentality of the government when performing missions authorized by the Air Force.  There is no obligation for non USAF facilities to provide free space, however if there is a precedent...
Definitely contact NHQ/GC for advice on how to continue.  I'm sure it won't be a problem, the commander probably needs something in writing.
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