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CAP Talk  |  General Discussion  |  Uniforms & Awards  |  Topic: Cadet Officer Shoulder Boards
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Author Topic: Cadet Officer Shoulder Boards  (Read 2375 times)
Mitchell 1969
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 560
Unit: PCR-CA-051

« Reply #40 on: February 22, 2017, 04:45:02 AM »

I said this before but I never liked them a bit. I thought they were excessively gaudy. I can't say I care for the little tiny (almost invisible) cadet rank insignia for the slip on epaulets, either. They would be ok if they used full size cadet rank.

Full size insignia works when you have 1 or 2 devices, but that 3rd device makes them too wide to fit on the epaulet sleeve.

Two possible fixes for that:

1) Make a new size, somewhere between the current tiny ones and the long-standing large ones. Then scrap the largest and smallest, using the new mid sized for everything.

2) (and easiest fix of all) - get rid of the need for a third insignia device. Gold pip for C/2nd Lt, silver for C/1st Lt, two silver pips for C/Capt. Continuing - gold lozenge (that's what they are, they aren't diamonds) for C/Maj, silver lozenge for C/Lt Col.  C/Col can be two silver lozenges.

Think about it - that would actually put the insignia colors in parallel with bars and leaves. (Except for C/Col, but ya can't win 'em all. Or can you? Maybe a new C/Col insignia would be something to consider...
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_________________
Bernard J. Wilson, Major, CAP

Mitchell 1969; Earhart 1971; Eaker 1973. Cadet Flying Encampment, License, 1970. IACE New Zealand 1971; IACE Korea 1973.

CAP has been bery, bery good to me.
PHall
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 5,581

« Reply #41 on: February 22, 2017, 01:43:56 PM »

I said this before but I never liked them a bit. I thought they were excessively gaudy. I can't say I care for the little tiny (almost invisible) cadet rank insignia for the slip on epaulets, either. They would be ok if they used full size cadet rank.

Full size insignia works when you have 1 or 2 devices, but that 3rd device makes them too wide to fit on the epaulet sleeve.

Two possible fixes for that:

1) Make a new size, somewhere between the current tiny ones and the long-standing large ones. Then scrap the largest and smallest, using the new mid sized for everything.

2) (and easiest fix of all) - get rid of the need for a third insignia device. Gold pip for C/2nd Lt, silver for C/1st Lt, two silver pips for C/Capt. Continuing - gold lozenge (that's what they are, they aren't diamonds) for C/Maj, silver lozenge for C/Lt Col.  C/Col can be two silver lozenges.

Think about it - that would actually put the insignia colors in parallel with bars and leaves. (Except for C/Col, but ya can't win 'em all. Or can you? Maybe a new C/Col insignia would be something to consider...

Your easiest fix is a total non-starter do to the fact that it would require regulation changes and new insignia to be produced.
Totally not worth the hassle to fix this "non-problem".
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kwe1009
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 554

« Reply #42 on: February 22, 2017, 02:12:24 PM »

Agreed.  The cadet officer rank insignia is not unique to CAP.  If we were to create different insignia there would also likely be an increased cost. 

Really the easiest solution is to just use the same epaulets that are on the blue shirt.  If the service coat doesn't have epaulets you can buy a kit and have them added for around $30.  That is a one-time cost and when that jacket gets sold or handed down to the next cadet then it is already done.
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Майор Хаткевич
200,000th Post Author
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Posts: 5,889
Unit: GLR-IL-049

« Reply #43 on: February 22, 2017, 02:24:48 PM »

To be fair, his idea requires no new insignia...just a coating change.
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LATORRECA
Forum Regular

Posts: 142
Unit: NHQ-119

« Reply #44 on: February 22, 2017, 02:28:15 PM »

Is anyone seen my crayons. I'm hungry. 💂💂💂

Sent from my HTC Desire 530 using Tapatalk
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Luis R. Ramos
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 2,341

« Reply #45 on: February 22, 2017, 02:58:07 PM »

So you are eating crayons?

 ???
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Squadron Administrative Officer
Squadron Communication Officer
Squadron Emergency Services Officer
PHall
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 5,581

« Reply #46 on: February 22, 2017, 04:57:46 PM »

Is anyone seen my crayons. I'm hungry. 💂💂💂

Sent from my HTC Desire 530 using Tapatalk

You don't like my use of color to make it easier to see what text I referring to?
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LATORRECA
Forum Regular

Posts: 142
Unit: NHQ-119

« Reply #47 on: February 22, 2017, 05:01:50 PM »

Huurraaa..... Marine Corps

Sent from my HTC Desire 530 using Tapatalk

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Toad1168
Member

Posts: 96
Unit: NCR-MO-110

« Reply #48 on: February 24, 2017, 12:37:37 PM »

I said this before but I never liked them a bit. I thought they were excessively gaudy. I can't say I care for the little tiny (almost invisible) cadet rank insignia for the slip on epaulets, either. They would be ok if they used full size cadet rank.

Full size insignia works when you have 1 or 2 devices, but that 3rd device makes them too wide to fit on the epaulet sleeve.

Two possible fixes for that:

1) Make a new size, somewhere between the current tiny ones and the long-standing large ones. Then scrap the largest and smallest, using the new mid sized for everything.

2) (and easiest fix of all) - get rid of the need for a third insignia device. Gold pip for C/2nd Lt, silver for C/1st Lt, two silver pips for C/Capt. Continuing - gold lozenge (that's what they are, they aren't diamonds) for C/Maj, silver lozenge for C/Lt Col.  C/Col can be two silver lozenges.

Think about it - that would actually put the insignia colors in parallel with bars and leaves. (Except for C/Col, but ya can't win 'em all. Or can you? Maybe a new C/Col insignia would be something to consider...

No, no, noooooooo.....  For those of us who have worn three diamonds without issue, it truly is a non problem.  And quite frankly, no legitimate reason to change.  A size change wouldn't be an issue, but why even do that?

As far as the shoulder boards, they were a pain (especially when they had snaps), but a pain that I was happy to endure.  Leave well enough alone.  If you aren't a cadet officer with the boards, why try to change them.
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Capt. Mike Toedebusch, CAP
Spaatz Award 1168 - 1 June 1993
GaryVC
Member

Posts: 79
Unit: PCR-NV-070

« Reply #49 on: February 24, 2017, 03:22:06 PM »

If they were rotated 90 degrees, full size insignia would work just fine on the epaulet sleeves. That is how the cadet rank insignia used to be worn on blues in the pre-shoulder board days.
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THRAWN
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 1,692

« Reply #50 on: February 24, 2017, 03:31:18 PM »

I said this before but I never liked them a bit. I thought they were excessively gaudy. I can't say I care for the little tiny (almost invisible) cadet rank insignia for the slip on epaulets, either. They would be ok if they used full size cadet rank.

Full size insignia works when you have 1 or 2 devices, but that 3rd device makes them too wide to fit on the epaulet sleeve.

Two possible fixes for that:

1) Make a new size, somewhere between the current tiny ones and the long-standing large ones. Then scrap the largest and smallest, using the new mid sized for everything.

2) (and easiest fix of all) - get rid of the need for a third insignia device. Gold pip for C/2nd Lt, silver for C/1st Lt, two silver pips for C/Capt. Continuing - gold lozenge (that's what they are, they aren't diamonds) for C/Maj, silver lozenge for C/Lt Col.  C/Col can be two silver lozenges.

Think about it - that would actually put the insignia colors in parallel with bars and leaves. (Except for C/Col, but ya can't win 'em all. Or can you? Maybe a new C/Col insignia would be something to consider...

No, no, noooooooo.....  For those of us who have worn three diamonds without issue, it truly is a non problem.  And quite frankly, no legitimate reason to change.  A size change wouldn't be an issue, but why even do that?

As far as the shoulder boards, they were a pain (especially when they had snaps), but a pain that I was happy to endure.  Leave well enough alone.  If you aren't a cadet officer with the boards, why try to change them.

You're right. They are a pain, and for no reason. Why change them? Why not? Because of tradition? If that's the case, we should still be in khaki and flying yellow airplanes. What purpose do they serve? Making cadet officers "distinctive"? Does that out weight the expense and the time spent Joanning them so that they are serviceable?
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Strup
"Belligerent....at times...."
AFRCC SMC 10-97
NSS ISC 05-00
USAF SOS 2000
USAF ACSC 2011
US NWC 2016
shuman14
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 911
Unit: NHQ-996

« Reply #51 on: February 27, 2017, 09:51:59 AM »

Quote
If that's the case, we should still be in khaki and flying yellow airplanes.

You make that sound like a bad idea.

Return to a single Corporate uniform for all in khaki and high visibility yellow aircraft would aid in search and rescue operations.  ;)
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Joseph J. Clune
Major, Military Police

USMCR: 1990 - 1992                           USAR: 1993 -1998, 2000 - Present     CAP (National Patron) 2013 - Present
INARNG: 1992 - 1993, 1998 - 2000       USCGAux: 2004 - Present
Mitchell 1969
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 560
Unit: PCR-CA-051

« Reply #52 on: February 27, 2017, 02:27:41 PM »

Quote
If that's the case, we should still be in khaki and flying yellow airplanes.

You make that sound like a bad idea.

Return to a single Corporate uniform for all in khaki and high visibility yellow aircraft would aid in search and rescue operations.  ;)

I would like to see a single corporate uniform for all. Colors aren't the big issue - it's getting agreement that there should be one uniform that all may wear instead of one for some, one for others.

But, as to airplanes - how, exactly, do you think that yellow would "...aid in search and rescue operations?" I supppse if we crash a few of our own, they might be easier to find. But other than that...? I think you may have fallen for a "sounds good, must be good" thing.
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_________________
Bernard J. Wilson, Major, CAP

Mitchell 1969; Earhart 1971; Eaker 1973. Cadet Flying Encampment, License, 1970. IACE New Zealand 1971; IACE Korea 1973.

CAP has been bery, bery good to me.
shuman14
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 911
Unit: NHQ-996

« Reply #53 on: February 27, 2017, 04:31:16 PM »

If a ground team was attempting to direct a CAP aircraft, the bright yellow one might be easier to spot from the ground.

Just a thought.  :-\
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Joseph J. Clune
Major, Military Police

USMCR: 1990 - 1992                           USAR: 1993 -1998, 2000 - Present     CAP (National Patron) 2013 - Present
INARNG: 1992 - 1993, 1998 - 2000       USCGAux: 2004 - Present
Luis R. Ramos
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 2,341

« Reply #54 on: February 27, 2017, 05:07:05 PM »

I think it is harder for an airplane to spot a ground team going around than for a ground team to spot one of our planes.

I have been on a ground team where the GTL suggested tying an orange vest to the roof. I was GTM. The aircraft we thought was our airplane was not, later we heard on Air channel "are you the guys with that orange thing flapping on the roof?"

If you think about it, almost any van you see around is... white. On the other hand, if you learn the signs a pilot may do over us, it is easy to know whether it is ours, coloring aside. For instance, flying in a circle the direction shows us where to focus. Flying to our front to back, going the wrong way. Flying in our direction of travel, that we are going in the correct direction. And then porpoising, rocking wings, and yawing for yes, message received and understood, not understood, etc.

How many times do you see small aircraft, Cessna-like doing all these things when on a sortie, if they are not connected to us?
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Squadron Administrative Officer
Squadron Communication Officer
Squadron Emergency Services Officer
PHall
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 5,581

« Reply #55 on: February 27, 2017, 09:50:32 PM »

Quote
If that's the case, we should still be in khaki and flying yellow airplanes.

You make that sound like a bad idea.

Return to a single Corporate uniform for all in khaki and high visibility yellow aircraft would aid in search and rescue operations.  ;)

Said by the guy who is not even allowed to wear a CAP uniform because he is a Patron Member.
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DakRadz
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 1,350

« Reply #56 on: February 27, 2017, 11:01:51 PM »

Quote
If that's the case, we should still be in khaki and flying yellow airplanes.

You make that sound like a bad idea.

Return to a single Corporate uniform for all in khaki and high visibility yellow aircraft would aid in search and rescue operations.  ;)

Said by the guy who is not even allowed to wear a CAP uniform because he is a Patron Member.
Okay, allow the very active senior to second his motion....

Did I miss a tiff betwixt you two? I mean, if it was Eclipse I could make the assumption...
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PHall
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 5,581

« Reply #57 on: February 27, 2017, 11:40:04 PM »

Quote
If that's the case, we should still be in khaki and flying yellow airplanes.

You make that sound like a bad idea.

Return to a single Corporate uniform for all in khaki and high visibility yellow aircraft would aid in search and rescue operations.  ;)

Said by the guy who is not even allowed to wear a CAP uniform because he is a Patron Member.
Okay, allow the very active senior to second his motion....

Did I miss a tiff betwixt you two? I mean, if it was Eclipse I could make the assumption...

Gentleman is a Patron Member who has never worn a CAP uniform, yet he tries to give the impression that he is an "expert".
He is a Commissioned Officer in the Army Reserve and if the subject was Army uniforms, I would be asking him for answers.
 
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LATORRECA
Forum Regular

Posts: 142
Unit: NHQ-119

« Reply #58 on: February 28, 2017, 01:56:36 AM »

Wow this conversation went in a total different direction.
  For some of you who never where cadets please stop giving ideas about changing cadet ranks. They are in line with the others youth organization (JROTC). They are the right size, never a problem and because we have little difficulties with them they are still OK. The original thought on this thread was about updating the button on the shoulder boards to align with the new AF blouses. I will prefer to keep all CAP buttons,  to change the button on the blouse however I'm a nostalgic fool.

That's the bottom line. I will back tracked from my original statement, changing the buttons on the boards from the factory would save money to the cadets, aligned with the AF blouse and sort of provide uniformity and consistency.
My 0.02.

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« Last Edit: February 28, 2017, 02:10:19 AM by LATORRECA » Logged
shuman14
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 911
Unit: NHQ-996

« Reply #59 on: February 28, 2017, 09:12:27 AM »

Quote
Did I miss a tiff betwixt you two?

Nah, he just doesn't like me and doesn't think any good ideas for CAP can come from anywhere except from a CAP member who has at least ten years experience in the organization.

We tend to disagree a lot.  ;)
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Joseph J. Clune
Major, Military Police

USMCR: 1990 - 1992                           USAR: 1993 -1998, 2000 - Present     CAP (National Patron) 2013 - Present
INARNG: 1992 - 1993, 1998 - 2000       USCGAux: 2004 - Present
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CAP Talk  |  General Discussion  |  Uniforms & Awards  |  Topic: Cadet Officer Shoulder Boards
 


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