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CAP Talk  |  General Discussion  |  Uniforms & Awards  |  Topic: Multiple Community Service Awards
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Author Topic: Multiple Community Service Awards  (Read 3013 times)
SMWOG
Member

Posts: 83
Unit: NER NY

« on: February 04, 2017, 10:28:16 PM »

So if you have been awarded to CSA ribbon and have it maxed out with silver clasps, if you get the award again, do you wear another ribbon?
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Eclipse
Too Much Free Time Award
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Posts: 28,084

« Reply #1 on: February 04, 2017, 10:34:37 PM »

Yes.  Just like any other decoration where the number awarded exceeds the max that can be displayed as one.

However it isn't required, for cadets or seniors now that everyone can short stack.
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"The man who does more than he is paid for will soon be paid for more than he does." - Napoleon Hill.
The contents of this post are Copyright © 2017 by eclipse. All rights are reserved. Specific permission is given to quote this post here on CAP-Talk only.

SMWOG
Member

Posts: 83
Unit: NER NY

« Reply #2 on: February 04, 2017, 10:38:05 PM »

Thanks! 

Now for short stacking, can you pick the ribbons or is it like the highest three?
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Eclipse
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Posts: 28,084

« Reply #3 on: February 04, 2017, 11:12:36 PM »

CAPM 39-1, Page 112
https://www.capmembers.com/media/cms/M391_E6F33EAAEC28A.pdf

"11.1.1.1.1. Officers and NCOs. On the USAF-style uniforms, all ribbons, badges,
and devices worn by adult members must fall below the top notch of the collar on the service coat or the
bottom tip of the collar of shirts/blouses when those are worn without a service coat. Individuals may
choose which ribbons to eliminate to meet this requirement
, but are encouraged to initially remove CAP
professional development ribbons to reach the required height. (Note, CAP aviation and chaplain badges
remain mandatory for wear on USAF-style uniforms and ribbons may need to be removed to meet this
requirement.) "


"11.1.1.1.2. Cadets. Cadets may choose to reduce the height of their ribbon bar by
removing all cadet achievement ribbons but their highest Cadet Program achievement ribbon
. All other
earned CAP ribbons and devices must still be worn. "
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"The man who does more than he is paid for will soon be paid for more than he does." - Napoleon Hill.
The contents of this post are Copyright © 2017 by eclipse. All rights are reserved. Specific permission is given to quote this post here on CAP-Talk only.

Luis R. Ramos
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 2,535

« Reply #4 on: February 04, 2017, 11:59:52 PM »

Quote

...are encouraged to initially remove CAP professional development ribbons...


Why the choice? Why not the lowest awards? Or keep awards of their choice???

Is it because the PD awards are indicated mostly by the grade attained?

 ???
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Squadron Administrative Officer
Squadron Communication Officer
Squadron Emergency Services Officer
Eclipse
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Posts: 28,084

« Reply #5 on: February 05, 2017, 12:36:35 AM »

^ Probably, but the regs allow for full choice.

By the time you get to the point of short-stacking, membership, red-service, and leadership start to be
somewhat less exciting then your first couple years, same for Yeager.

I'm more interested in highest PD, meritorious awards, and operational ones when I read a rack.

Where you been?  What you done?  Does anybody think you are special?
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"The man who does more than he is paid for will soon be paid for more than he does." - Napoleon Hill.
The contents of this post are Copyright © 2017 by eclipse. All rights are reserved. Specific permission is given to quote this post here on CAP-Talk only.

EMT-83
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 1,825

« Reply #6 on: February 05, 2017, 11:21:10 AM »

Honestly, what would be the point of loading up a rack with CSAs?
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Gunsotsu
Recruit

Posts: 29

« Reply #7 on: February 05, 2017, 03:38:17 PM »

Quote
Cadets may choose to reduce the height of their ribbon bar...

BWAHAHAHAHA! Cadets removing ribbons. That's rich.
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AlphaSigOU
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 2,151
Unit: PCR-NV-069

The Kwaj Drafter!
« Reply #8 on: February 05, 2017, 04:54:05 PM »

If I may steer you to this resource, this should answer your questions about the proper wear of CAP ribbons: http://captalk.net/index.php?topic=3179.0
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Lt Col Charles E. (Chuck) Corway, CAP
Gill Robb Wilson Award (#2901 - 2011)
Amelia Earhart Award (#1257 - 1982) - C/Major (retired)
Billy Mitchell Award (#2375 - 1981)
Administrative/Personnel/Professional Development Officer
Nellis Composite Squadron (PCR-NV-069)
KJ6GHO - NAR 45040
AlphaSigOU
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 2,151
Unit: PCR-NV-069

The Kwaj Drafter!
« Reply #9 on: February 05, 2017, 04:59:42 PM »

Thanks! 

Now for short stacking, can you pick the ribbons or is it like the highest three?


My preference on the shirt (whether AF blue or corporate white) is following the Navy's custom: a single row of your highest decorations or a stack of any nine decoration/service ribbons. I usually have three decorations on the top row, three PD ribbons in the middle row and three service ribbons in the bottom row.
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Lt Col Charles E. (Chuck) Corway, CAP
Gill Robb Wilson Award (#2901 - 2011)
Amelia Earhart Award (#1257 - 1982) - C/Major (retired)
Billy Mitchell Award (#2375 - 1981)
Administrative/Personnel/Professional Development Officer
Nellis Composite Squadron (PCR-NV-069)
KJ6GHO - NAR 45040
kwe1009
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 758

« Reply #10 on: February 05, 2017, 06:32:06 PM »

Quote

...are encouraged to initially remove CAP professional development ribbons...


Why the choice? Why not the lowest awards? Or keep awards of their choice???

Is it because the PD awards are indicated mostly by the grade attained?

 ???

Also, you can't earn the Wilson award until you get the other levels so having those ribbons are a little redundant.
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lordmonar
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Posts: 10,587

« Reply #11 on: February 06, 2017, 12:08:13 AM »

Honestly, what would be the point of loading up a rack with CSAs?
Because you earned them?
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PATRICK M. HARRIS, SMSgt, CAP
Pacific Region
SouthernCross
Recruit

Posts: 27

« Reply #12 on: February 06, 2017, 12:33:30 AM »

If you have maxed out a second CSA ribbon, can you add a third one? Is there a regulation that prohibits adding a third one?
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Eclipse
Too Much Free Time Award
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Posts: 28,084

« Reply #13 on: February 06, 2017, 12:49:12 AM »

The verbiage does not appear to allow for more then two of the same ribbon in those circumstances,
however it's probably one of those things NHQ didn't consider as it's so rare. Best to contact them
in that case.

CAPR 39-3, page 4-5
http://www.capmembers.com/media/cms/R039_003_83459660D4F44.pdf
"b. Subsequent awards of the same decoration or ribbon are denoted by the CAP bronze
triangular clasp, worn on the ribbon of the original award. A CAP silver triangular clasp is
equivalent to, and is worn in the place of, five bronze claps. Silver clasps are placed to the wearer’s
right side of a bronze clasp. A maximum of four devices may be worn on any ribbon, unless
otherwise stated in this regulation. When the number of devices exceeds the authorized maximum, a
second ribbon is worn to the wearer’s left of the initial ribbon. The second ribbon counts as one
subsequent award. When future awards reduce the devices to a single ribbon the second ribbon will
be removed. Devices are illustrated in Attachment 3."


With that said, and without intending to raise the argument again about "what" is considered
community service, anyone clocking more then 2500 CSA hours in a typical CAP career is probably
getting a pretty liberal interpretation of what is acceptable, or they are just swinging by CAP
once every couple months to pick up their CSA, and not doing much for CAP.  I'd probably also be in the camp of
a 3rd ribbon being excessive, regardless of earning it or not.
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"The man who does more than he is paid for will soon be paid for more than he does." - Napoleon Hill.
The contents of this post are Copyright © 2017 by eclipse. All rights are reserved. Specific permission is given to quote this post here on CAP-Talk only.

EMT-83
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 1,825

« Reply #14 on: February 06, 2017, 07:34:13 AM »

Honestly, what would be the point of loading up a rack with CSAs?
Because you earned them?

You earned them outside of CAP, and they have absolutely nothing to do with the organization whose uniform they are worn on. The CSA is great to recognize a cadet who walked away from the computer or video console long enough to do some volunteer work, but multiple ribbons loaded with clasps? Ridiculous.
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lordmonar
Too Much Free Time Award
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Posts: 10,587

« Reply #15 on: February 06, 2017, 07:55:47 AM »

Ridiculous or not thems the rules.

Point being.  Member X does the service hours, provides the documentation, he/she gets the ribbon.

If they are a cadet they don't have the option NOT to wear them.  Seniors can choose not wear them if they don't want to.

As for Eclipse's point....I will say a) that's an unsupported assertion that is not really fair.  b) If the assertion happens to be true....so what?  Nowhere in any of the regulations does it say you have to live and breath CAP to get the CSA.

While I will agree that encouraging outside community service may or may not be something CAP wants to encourage but that is outside the scope of the OP's question.

Bottom Line

If you have earned a ribbon you are entitled to wear them....and in the case of cadets are required to wear them.
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PATRICK M. HARRIS, SMSgt, CAP
Pacific Region
Майор Хаткевич
200,000th Post Author
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 6,075
Unit: GLR-IL-049

« Reply #16 on: February 06, 2017, 11:21:49 AM »

Quote
Cadets may choose to reduce the height of their ribbon bar...

BWAHAHAHAHA! Cadets removing ribbons. That's rich.


A number of our Cadet Officers and NCOs choose to short stack.
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Alaric
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 756

« Reply #17 on: February 06, 2017, 12:19:59 PM »

The verbiage does not appear to allow for more then two of the same ribbon in those circumstances,
however it's probably one of those things NHQ didn't consider as it's so rare. Best to contact them
in that case.

CAPR 39-3, page 4-5
http://www.capmembers.com/media/cms/R039_003_83459660D4F44.pdf
"b. Subsequent awards of the same decoration or ribbon are denoted by the CAP bronze
triangular clasp, worn on the ribbon of the original award. A CAP silver triangular clasp is
equivalent to, and is worn in the place of, five bronze claps. Silver clasps are placed to the wearer’s
right side of a bronze clasp. A maximum of four devices may be worn on any ribbon, unless
otherwise stated in this regulation. When the number of devices exceeds the authorized maximum, a
second ribbon is worn to the wearer’s left of the initial ribbon. The second ribbon counts as one
subsequent award. When future awards reduce the devices to a single ribbon the second ribbon will
be removed. Devices are illustrated in Attachment 3."


With that said, and without intending to raise the argument again about "what" is considered
community service, anyone clocking more then 2500 CSA hours in a typical CAP career is probably
getting a pretty liberal interpretation of what is acceptable, or they are just swinging by CAP
once every couple months to pick up their CSA, and not doing much for CAP.  I'd probably also be in the camp of
a 3rd ribbon being excessive, regardless of earning it or not.

Have to totally disagree with you Eclipse.  Remember that unless you are in a command position, or a staff member at a very active position, the average commitment for a senior member is 3 - 5 hours a week.  When I started in CAP I was doing at least 10 hours of volunteer service with the Red Cross and MRC a week in addition to attending my weekly meetings and working my regular job.  Had I not decided to do more in ES and Group/Wing staff and command, I probably still would.  That's a CSA every 6 weeks and 2500+ hours in about 5 years.  I have plenty of members in my squadrons who come regularly to meetings, attend the quarterly SAREX and attend needed PD events but they are more active (in terms of time commitment) in the VFD, the Red Cross, churches, little league, etc.  Most don't care to apply for the award, or get the initial ribbon and are content.
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THRAWN
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 1,809

« Reply #18 on: February 06, 2017, 02:07:01 PM »

If this "award" is apparently so easy to get, why is the bar for it so low? Double the hours required.
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Strup
"Belligerent....at times...."
AFRCC SMC 10-97
NSS ISC 05-00
USAF SOS 2000
USAF ACSC 2011
US NWC 2016
Майор Хаткевич
200,000th Post Author
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 6,075
Unit: GLR-IL-049

« Reply #19 on: February 06, 2017, 02:08:45 PM »

If this "award" is apparently so easy to get, why is the bar for it so low? Double the hours required.


I don't know, what's 60 hours worth to you? I'd rather spend it with family/on CAP projects, rather than other organizations to get credit in CAP. But to each his own.
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CAP Talk  |  General Discussion  |  Uniforms & Awards  |  Topic: Multiple Community Service Awards
 


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