Seniors and Cadets wearing Sage Green Boots

[capsmov]

I can assure you the detention of myself happened as I described in my post. It was even posted in the unrestricted base blotter entry the following day as a blip. I do agree it was an anomaly(less than 1%), but my point was to not discard what the OP was saying as it not happening because you don't want to believe it happened.

So taking 39-1 to them and giving it to the CC or the shirt is not going to benefit anyone.

It was the CAP website that actually cleared this up. Good thing I was in perfect regulations of the uniform as they looked the photographs and compared them to what I was wearing. Again agree this is a rare occurrence, but it does happen.

Anyway let's get back to talking about the OP's questions about Sage Boots!

[sarmed1]

By AFI, each base should have a Field Grade officer appointed by the installation commander to work as a liaison between the local unit and the base.  That should be the route of POC for concerns or questions regarding CAP uniform wear and any "issues" with USAF personnel.  No one on the AD is going to go out of their way to self check about CAP and its uniform idiosyncrasies, if there isnt a memo about it (and even then) no one will care.

mk

[AirAux]

I did bomb a sub, two of them in fact, Nazi's they were.  Unfortunately due to ego's, uniform regulations, top secrecy. etc., I will never, ever be given credit for it.  It is too damaging to the German military to admit that a little yellow/red (whatever I was flying that day) airplane sank a German sub.  Wouldn't be politically correct.  rest assured I do have the photos, but will take them to the grave.....

[NIN]

I did bomb a sub, two of them in fact, Nazi's they were.  Unfortunately due to ego's, uniform regulations, top secrecy. etc., I will never, ever be given credit for it.  It is too damaging to the German military to admit that a little yellow/red (whatever I was flying that day) airplane sank a German sub.  Wouldn't be politically correct.  rest assured I do have the photos, but will take them to the grave.....

"Thats classified..."

[THRAWN]

I did bomb a sub, two of them in fact, Nazi's they were.  Unfortunately due to ego's, uniform regulations, top secrecy. etc., I will never, ever be given credit for it.  It is too damaging to the German military to admit that a little yellow/red (whatever I was flying that day) airplane sank a German sub.  Wouldn't be politically correct.  rest assured I do have the photos, but will take them to the grave.....

"Thats classified..."

Lisa: I don't think anyone in this family could be capable of murder.
Grampa: You never know what people are capable of. I never thought I could shoot down a German plane. But last year, I proved myself wrong.

[MHC5096]

Years ago when DOD vehicle decals were still a thing, I had a comical encounter with the SF crew at the Plattsburgh AFB. I had just purchased a new vehicle and figured I'd stop by Pass and ID to register it on my way to our weekly CAP meeting on base. I was wearing the Air Force blues uniform with CAP Captain insignia. The young Airman behind the desk addresses me by grade and asks for my ID and vehicle information. At the time I was also a PO2 in the Navy Reserve, so I handed her my Reserve ID card. With a look of confusion on her face she asks the other Airman sitting next to her if should issue me a blue officer sticker or a red NCO sticker. I chuckle and tell her that technically the green civilian sticker was also an option since CAP is a civilian auxiliary to the Air Force. Now both are confused and one goes and grabs a SSgt who comes over and tells them to issue me the red NCO sticker which is what I was after in the first place.

[LATORRECA]

[emoji23][emoji23][emoji23][emoji23][emoji23][emoji23][emoji2][emoji2][emoji2][emoji2]


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[LATORRECA]

Coming in to the gate of Camp Lejeune, the Marine MP salutes. Then I told him "don't worry, I'm a Gunny" you should saw his face. A Marine Gunnery Sergeant in AF Uniform with Capt bars. It blow his mind. I took me a minute to explained him, to not worry and what CAP is.

   Now about the sage boots, those individuals are telling a bunch of [emoji243], may be not the issue about impersonating a officer but the other stuff (disregarding the regs), they just want to wear the boots because they want to be tacticool.  My recommendation, write a letter to the Wing Commander and reported to the IG. If the Wing Commander doesn't do anything, them make sure CC the Senior Enlisted for the Wing in the Email. Ask your commander if is ok with him to send the letter. If you get the opportunity to take a picture do it. Send it to the IG.

My .02 sense.

Top. Latorre


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[NIN]

You know, maybe it was just my neck of the woods or something, but (counts on fingers.. switches to toes.. grabs co-worker and uses his fingers..) when I got off AD 28 years ago and got active as a senior, we were still wearing blue shoulder marks and metal rank on our service coats. I never had a problem with "impersonating an officer,"nor did I hear of it (my commander was in Security Forces, and one of our seniors was the chief of police. We would have heard it) and I spent a LOT of time on the local ANG base where my group was HQ'd.

The closest I came to "impersonating an officer" when was when we did some kind of thing with the Air Guard wing (I can't even remember what it was.. not an airshow..) and for my part of whatever it was, I wound up working a half dozen other lieutenants from the ANG, all of us in "Class B" (not called that then) blues.  I spent the better part of the day working alongside these officers and their squadron commander. At the end of the day he gathered all the officers together and thanked us for the work we'd been doing for him and how we were doing a great job representing the Air National Guard alongside our CAP brothers and sisters and how it was great he got to the be the commander of such a great bunch of officers (its been a long time, I can't remember exactly how he put it). 

He was going around and shaking people's hands, and he grabbed mine and said "Thanks a bunch, Lieutenant," and then I saw his eyes land on my shoulder marks that said "CAP"

"Ha! You're not even one of mine!" he exclaimed. "All day I thought you were one of my lieutenants!"

I kind of got a kick out of that.

[Eclipse]

Someone attempts entering a military base with an ID which does not match his uniform and there is surprise that they are pulled to the side and checked.
We should all be thankful that's happening.

Show the ID that matches the clothes you're wearing and the odds are there will be less hassle.   

My personal experience has been that when the DOD or other service-based police are manning the gates or
other areas, everything is fine, it's only when civillin contractor get involved that we have "issues" (like "CAP doesn't meet
here anymore..."...seriously).

[Ned]

Show the ID that matches the clothes you're wearing and the odds are there will be less hassle.   

Concur with the sentiment generally, but for me it kinda depends on the base.  Since my retired military ID is D-BIDS readable, I have found it to be more efficient than showing my CAP ID, even when I am in a CAP uniform.  Depending on the base, my CAP ID usually works fine, but only after a trip to the pass and ID shack and an opportunity to show registration and proof of insurance.

Obviously, YMMV. 

[abdsp51]

Show the ID that matches the clothes you're wearing and the odds are there will be less hassle.   

Concur with the sentiment generally, but for me it kinda depends on the base.  Since my retired military ID is D-BIDS readable, I have found it to be more efficient than showing my CAP ID, even when I am in a CAP uniform.  Depending on the base, my CAP ID usually works fine, but only after a trip to the pass and ID shack and an opportunity to show registration and proof of insurance.

Obviously, YMMV.

Yep.  I show my CAC anytime going on base regardless of what I wear.  And I have only been questioned once.  Answered it and went on my way.

[ALH]

By AFI, each base should have a Field Grade officer appointed by the installation commander to work as a liaison between the local unit and the base.  That should be the route of POC for concerns or questions regarding CAP uniform wear and any "issues" with USAF personnel.  No one on the AD is going to go out of their way to self check about CAP and its uniform idiosyncrasies, if there isnt a memo about it (and even then) no one will care.

mk

::small off-topic soapbox::

A very good point (and role) that is often overlooked by both the AF and CAP. A solid working relationship through that conduit is a great enabler to both CAP and the AF.

For example, when Thunderbird 6 (IIRC) crashed after the USAFA graduation back in May, the working relationship between the local CAP units and the liaison was invaluable. The discussion for getting aerial photography of the crash site was waffling between satellite photos and military flights, both options involving lots of money and effort. One of the squadron commanders in the Operations Group knew of CAP via their liaison and went to him to ask for CAP's proposal for support. Within hours, a plan was sketched, national ops contacted, a request levied by the base leadership, and CAP was able to conduct the photo mission within 24 hours.

What does that have to do with sage boots? That liaison would have no problem going to the wing leadership to smooth out that misunderstanding because they keep that open, working relationship with both entities open. If it was a once-off event, it'll be a good story to tell later; but if the problem persists, it pays to have a good relationship greased with the base leadership and contacts prior to trying to justify their weighing into the matter. This also goes for on-base housing of assets, material support, ease of access... the list goes on.

::soapbox off::

[abdsp51]

What does that have to do with sage boots? That liaison would have no problem going to the wing leadership to smooth out that misunderstanding because they keep that open, working relationship with both entities open. If it was a once-off event, it'll be a good story to tell later; but if the problem persists, it pays to have a good relationship greased with the base leadership and contacts prior to trying to justify their weighing into the matter. This also goes for on-base housing of assets, material support, ease of access... the list goes on.

::soapbox off::

Of course the need to "smooth things out" could be avoided if members just did what they were supposed to and followed the regs like they are supposed to and not look the other way. 

And honestly I am not buying the OP's statement that members are always getting yelled at by the Army and Air Force folks there.  The average AF member has better things to do than worry about CAP wearing sage or black boots.  Most AF members don't even pay enough attention to each other with uniform violations to much less pay attention to CAP.

[capsmov]

Someone attempts entering a military base with an ID which does not match his uniform and there is surprise that they are pulled to the side and checked.
We should all be thankful that's happening.

Show the ID that matches the clothes you're wearing and the odds are there will be less hassle.     

If you read my statement I was in Germany, Ramstein AFB to be exact. Go to any of the overseas CAP squadrons and go try pulling that crap at the gate showing your CAP ID to get access. Sorry ain't going to happen. You won't even be able to get a base pass with it. I needed to show my Military ID due to DBIDS and my SOFA car license plate made it clear along with the US Forces sticker. Secondly, I did show it to them and they looked at the flimsy thing and flipped it over and thought it was a membership card like the VFW or American Legion. Not sure if it is like that in the other overseas CAP like Korea and Japan, but I am certain they too wouldn't be able to pull that stunt as you need to have SOFA status anyway. Maybe one of them can chime in....

[Eclipse]

^ You're not the only one responding with gate issues in a non-matching uniform,
and frankly I would think my statement goes double overseas considering force protection issues.

You'd probably be better off in those cases coming through in either civilian dress (if it's allowed) or the military
uniform and change when you get to the CAP meeting location.

In CONUS there are plenty of civilians with no other access to a base than CAP coming in every day, but
even though it looks like that is a possibility under the regs, it that a practical reality in any CAP units overseas?

[abdsp51]

Someone attempts entering a military base with an ID which does not match his uniform and there is surprise that they are pulled to the side and checked.
We should all be thankful that's happening.

Show the ID that matches the clothes you're wearing and the odds are there will be less hassle.     

If you read my statement I was in Germany, Ramstein AFB to be exact. Go to any of the overseas CAP squadrons and go try pulling that crap at the gate showing your CAP ID to get access. Sorry ain't going to happen. You won't even be able to get a base pass with it. I needed to show my Military ID due to DBIDS and my SOFA car license plate made it clear along with the US Forces sticker. Secondly, I did show it to them and they looked at the flimsy thing and flipped it over and thought it was a membership card like the VFW or American Legion. Not sure if it is like that in the other overseas CAP like Korea and Japan, but I am certain they too wouldn't be able to pull that stunt as you need to have SOFA status anyway. Maybe one of them can chime in....

I was at Osan.  And none of the folks assigned there ever got detained for impersonating an officer.  I got questioned about it once and answered the question and proceeded on my merry way and I was wearing BBDU with bars and showed my CAC.  And I entered the main gate there every Monday unless the meeting was cancelled.  We got questioned every now and then but we never got detained.  And the threat is more real in Korea especially Osan than Ramstein.  I think there is more to your story and than you are are letting on.  And if there isn't then it was a fluke plain and simple. 

[NIN]

To back this discussion up a tiny bit away from "who gets hauled out of the car and jacked up at gunpoint when.."

I had a conversation with an ANG E-9 some years ago about CAP and BDUs.  This was before the AF transitioned to ABUs, so we were all in salad suits.

He and I were discussing the differences in our uniforms and he noted something I'd never thought of before.

From behind or 100 ft away, say, in BDUs CAP folks looked no different than ANG people.  Black boots, some units might have a colored hat like the ANG did, etc.  But from 100 ft away, an ANG guy and a CAP guy are virtually indistinguishable in salad suits. 

Now, from 10ft away, different matter (nametags, full color patches, "CAP" on things).  It becomes pretty obvious pretty quickly. One thing, at the time, that was distinguishing at 100ft (and was actually kind of visible) was the white t-shirt with BDUs, and that got a lot of queries until it was changed ~a year later.

His statement to me, at the time, was something I've carried as a philosophy when it comes to inspections and such, too. "If it looks wrong, it probably is wrong."  If he can see from 100ft away that some airmen are jacked up (ie hands in pockets, boots not bloused, hats on the backs of their heads, jackets unzipped), well, here comes the the E-9 lightning to see what the heck is going on.

Today, from 100ft away, our folks "look wrong" to an ANG or AF, mostly due to the black boots.  But when they get within 10ft, they're going to see differences that should be far more obvious & distinguishing (dark blue tapes, full color patches).

But its an important distinction.  And one that the Air Force prefers. 

So if someone is doing things outside of the matter in which the Air Force has prescribed for our uniforms, they're doing it wrong.

[SarDragon]

Secondly, I did show it to them and they looked at the flimsy thing and flipped it over and thought it was a membership card like the VFW or American Legion.

Unless it has a picture on it, it is just a membership card, and that's what CAP called them before the picture IDs hit the street.

[Eclipse]

Unless it has a picture on it, it is just a membership card, and that's what CAP called them before the picture IDs hit the street.

Which it of course does, since all senior members are required to have a photo on file in eServices.