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CAP Talk  |  General Discussion  |  Membership  |  Topic: CAPR 39-2 Jan 2017
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Eclipse
Too Much Free Time Award
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Posts: 27,267

« on: January 13, 2017, 10:24:07 PM »

http://www.capmembers.com/media/cms/R039_002_A74FDA9552C2D.pdf

Of note:

National Patron Category being phased out.

Seems to have been a lot of replacement of the word "adult" and "active" all over the document but doesn't
seem to actually change anything.  Only 8 instances of the word "senior" and 102 of "active", usually used a s a generic for "adult".

Patrons, AEM, and retired now referred to as "Associate", but doesn't appear to change anything in regards to those memberships.

Instead of retiring NHQ prefers the member transfer to Patron, cause you know, Benjis.

Two categories of Legislative Member - Federal and State, appears to be terminology only.

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"Effort" does not equal "results".
The contents of this post are Copyright 2017 by eclipse. All rights are reserved. Specific permission is given to quote this post here on CAP-Talk only.

Hyperion
Recruit

Posts: 33

« Reply #1 on: January 14, 2017, 12:18:33 AM »

Quote
3.5.1.8.
They may wear any of the CAP distinctive uniforms if desired (and approved by unit commander).  However, CSMs may not wear the Air Force-style uniform. If they do not wear a uniform, they will wear clothing appropriate for the circumstances.

3.5.1.9.
CSMs will not earn CAP rank, awards or decorations.

If a CSM wears the white aviator shirt, what are their rules for the epaulets? M39-1 in 1.4.1.1. defines the blank epaulet as an insignia for adults without grade who are pursing the officer track, but CSMs are not eligible to pursue any further track. Do they just not wear an epaulet? This creates an odd area for CSM attire. They are not allowed to wear all of the prescribed corporate uniform variations according to M39-1, but R39-2 says they can wear any of the variations without further specification. It would just been easier to allow CSMs to wear only the polo or civilian clothes.

Every regulation rewrite adds more holes than it fills.
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To serve in silence.
USACAP
Forum Regular

Posts: 101
Unit: MV0181

« Reply #2 on: January 14, 2017, 12:37:06 PM »

That seems to be CAP's general trajectory lately.
Alas.

Every regulation rewrite adds more holes than it fills.
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foo
Forum Regular

Posts: 136

« Reply #3 on: January 14, 2017, 02:08:04 PM »

Quote
3.5.1.8.
They may wear any of the CAP distinctive uniforms if desired (and approved by unit commander).  However, CSMs may not wear the Air Force-style uniform. If they do not wear a uniform, they will wear clothing appropriate for the circumstances.

3.5.1.9.
CSMs will not earn CAP rank, awards or decorations.

If a CSM wears the white aviator shirt, what are their rules for the epaulets? M39-1 in 1.4.1.1. defines the blank epaulet as an insignia for adults without grade who are pursing the officer track, but CSMs are not eligible to pursue any further track. Do they just not wear an epaulet? This creates an odd area for CSM attire. They are not allowed to wear all of the prescribed corporate uniform variations according to M39-1, but R39-2 says they can wear any of the variations without further specification. It would just been easier to allow CSMs to wear only the polo or civilian clothes.

Every regulation rewrite adds more holes than it fills.

^ That, and what if they earned rank as a full member then later transferred to the CSM category?
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SarDragon
Global Moderator

Posts: 9,738
Unit: NAVAIRPAC

« Reply #4 on: January 14, 2017, 04:21:13 PM »

^ That, and what if they earned rank as a full member then later transferred to the CSM category?

Easy - the rank comes off. The likelihood of that transition is very low, though. It's more likely for the member to just move to Patron, or whatever they are calling it now.
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Dave Bowles
Maj, CAP
AT1, USN Retired
Mitchell Award (unnumbered)
C/WO, CAP, Ret
Eclipse
Too Much Free Time Award
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Posts: 27,267

« Reply #5 on: January 14, 2017, 04:56:55 PM »

+1 - also, you can only be a CSM if you have a cadet family member in the program (child or grandchild),
and if you do, and already are in and have some grade, why would you change?

We've had a couple people ask about this level of membership and I just tell them to join as full,
it really doesn't make any difference and insures there are no issues or misunderstandings.
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The contents of this post are Copyright 2017 by eclipse. All rights are reserved. Specific permission is given to quote this post here on CAP-Talk only.

foo
Forum Regular

Posts: 136

« Reply #6 on: January 14, 2017, 07:44:58 PM »

+1 - also, you can only be a CSM if you have a cadet family member in the program (child or grandchild),
and if you do, and already are in and have some grade, why would you change?

We've had a couple people ask about this level of membership and I just tell them to join as full,
it really doesn't make any difference and insures there are no issues or misunderstandings.

It happens. A parent joins as a full member, but later decides they don't want to do a job at the squadron let alone pursue PD. However they're more than willing to chaperone cadet activities once in a while, so instead of keeping an empty shirt on the books, switch them to CSM.

Personally, I would err on the side of parents entering as CSM unless they're a reasonably good match for an open duty position and are likely to pursue PD. Of course, all of this should be contemplated by the membership committee after discussing the options and expectations with the prospective member.
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shuman14
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 915
Unit: NHQ-996

« Reply #7 on: January 21, 2017, 07:18:42 PM »

So with the National patron Status being phased out, what does a National Patron do when it comes time for renewal?

Do I have to find a local unit and send my check thru them now?  ???
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Joseph J. Clune
Major, Military Police

USMCR: 1990 - 1992                           USAR: 1993 -1998, 2000 - Present     CAP (National Patron) 2013 - Present
INARNG: 1992 - 1993, 1998 - 2000       USCGAux: 2004 - Present
Luis R. Ramos
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 2,366

« Reply #8 on: January 21, 2017, 07:33:21 PM »

I knew there was a reason why NHQ decided to eliminate these status!

 >:D

JUST KIDDING!

I really enjoy reading your takes and riling all the usual suspects here...
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Squadron Administrative Officer
Squadron Communication Officer
Squadron Emergency Services Officer
PHall
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 5,606

« Reply #9 on: January 21, 2017, 08:35:48 PM »

So with the National patron Status being phased out, what does a National Patron do when it comes time for renewal?

Do I have to find a local unit and send my check thru them now?  ???

Your money ALWAYS goes direct to National. They don't trust anybody else!
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shuman14
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 915
Unit: NHQ-996

« Reply #10 on: January 22, 2017, 08:44:51 AM »

Quote
Your money ALWAYS goes direct to National. They don't trust anybody else!

They require C.O.D.

Cough up

Or

Die

 :P
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Joseph J. Clune
Major, Military Police

USMCR: 1990 - 1992                           USAR: 1993 -1998, 2000 - Present     CAP (National Patron) 2013 - Present
INARNG: 1992 - 1993, 1998 - 2000       USCGAux: 2004 - Present
Luis R. Ramos
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 2,366

« Reply #11 on: January 22, 2017, 05:20:07 PM »

C.O.D...

Cash

Opfront

Due...

(I know how to write "Upfront" but that is the only way it matches...)

Card now

Or

Don't join...

 >:D
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Squadron Administrative Officer
Squadron Communication Officer
Squadron Emergency Services Officer
NIN
VIP

Posts: 4,433
Unit: of issue

« Reply #12 on: January 22, 2017, 09:28:07 PM »

Credit
On
Da web
?

OK, that was terrible. I admit.
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Darin Ninness, Lt Col, CAP
Sq Bubba, Wing Dude, National Guy
The contents of this post are Copyright 2017 by NIN. All rights are reserved. Specific permission is given to quote this post here on CAP-Talk only.
Ed DeSocio
Recruit

Posts: 13
Unit: NHQ-HQ-996

« Reply #13 on: January 23, 2017, 11:58:12 AM »

As a long-standing member of the Patron Squadron, I wonder what will happen next.  The current Patron membership arrangement doesn't seem broken to me.
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Ed DeSocio
NHQ-HQ-996 National Patron Squadron
Spaatz #594
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CAP Talk  |  General Discussion  |  Membership  |  Topic: CAPR 39-2 Jan 2017
 


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