Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?
May 25, 2017, 05:59:45 PM
Home Help Login Register
News:

CAP Talk  |  Operations  |  Tools of the trade  |  Topic: 24Hr Pistol Belt Kit
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
Pages: [1] 2  All Print
Author Topic: 24Hr Pistol Belt Kit  (Read 1962 times)
NineteenTen
Recruit

Posts: 14
Unit: NER-NJ

« on: January 06, 2017, 11:30:46 PM »

I'm looking to move over my 24 hour pack to a pistol belt with suspenders kit. Does anyone have any recommendations on what i should get?
Logged
Panzerbjorn
Seasoned Member

Posts: 258
Unit: MER-NC-048

« Reply #1 on: January 06, 2017, 11:45:45 PM »

What....like this?

Logged
NineteenTen
Recruit

Posts: 14
Unit: NER-NJ

« Reply #2 on: January 06, 2017, 11:52:43 PM »

What....like this?



Thanks, Yeah kinda like that one but with less grenades ;)
Logged
NineteenTen
Recruit

Posts: 14
Unit: NER-NJ

« Reply #3 on: January 07, 2017, 12:11:04 AM »

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/VDiGc6VSgnFEXm7tZWLOwUfw4aDEuPnwlmZDT-LD8K_ehCsT0jZnA7KyAAtMHkkT5QhAxEwwYKnQ4JQhyIOK4O5BcgEh9ELXW_XpKu5tBsFFL4YR3uptFtoiwmWGg-x7ImFbKr8a
Logged
Eclipse
Too Much Free Time Award
***
Posts: 27,347

« Reply #4 on: January 07, 2017, 12:31:46 AM »

You are not likely to be able to fit a full 24 on an h or y suspender rig, you may get close, but
the meals will be an issue - no matter how you slice it you wind up with an over stuffed butt pack
or adding a second pack.

If you're moving to that direction, I'd suggest an E-LBV, they are readily available on eBay inexpensively.
You want the one(s) with the slant pockets (that's part of the "E").


(example photo, not necessarily a recommendation).

These give you attachment points for potentially two packs, however with that said, there are better rigs these days for
the 24 hours pack with plenty of references on this forum.

Sans the butt packs, E-LBVs are good for getting in and out of vehicles which is a lof of what CAP ops generally are.
Logged

"Effort" does not equal "results".
The contents of this post are Copyright 2017 by eclipse. All rights are reserved. Specific permission is given to quote this post here on CAP-Talk only.

Spam
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 822
Unit: GA-001/CV

« Reply #5 on: January 07, 2017, 02:56:56 AM »

Not recommended at all, but that's your choice.

The LBEs are our units "old" configuration (none of us still wear them, although many of us have them moldering in the basement). Our test experience showed that you spend more to buy the LBEs, and carry more weight, and have less flexibility to get your gear out, than if you purchase a commonly available "Level III" assault pack for forty bucks.

However, if you must, swim your stream your own way:  you can fit the required kit in, if you tie the poncho and vest (when not worn) under the butt pack, and rig sufficient ammo pouches. If it helps, we still post our ten year old config drawing - which we need to update in several ways: http://www.ga045.org/documents/CAP_Std_Gear_List.pdf

V/r
Spam
Logged
NineteenTen
Recruit

Posts: 14
Unit: NER-NJ

« Reply #6 on: January 07, 2017, 01:10:34 PM »

Thanks for the advice everyone. :)
Logged
NineteenTen
Recruit

Posts: 14
Unit: NER-NJ

« Reply #7 on: January 07, 2017, 01:15:23 PM »

Also I'm looking into the pistol belt rig because it looks like it would be easier to use with a 72hr pack for say NESA or HMRS

http://nebula.wsimg.com/2dd9dec1a1338ad12dc1ea84cd242052?AccessKeyId=7F542CF163978C372E3D&disposition=0&alloworigin=1
Logged
waukwiz
Recruit

Posts: 37
Unit: GLR-WI-048

« Reply #8 on: January 07, 2017, 07:18:37 PM »

Like Eclipse said, it's not likely you'll fit everything on an ALICE pistol belt setup, so you'll need an additional pack. For that purpose, I use a medium ALICE pack, which works well because I can also carry the components of my 72-hour kit depending on the mission's needs. The ALICE system is also nice because it is tried and true, and built to last, whereas you risk the reliability elsewhere, depending on the brand.
On the belt/suspenders I'm able to carry:

2 ammo pouches (the ones with the grenade straps on the sides)
2 compass/bandage pouches (one on the suspenders)
2 one quart canteens
1 ALICE IFAK

One of the canteens can be swapped for an E-tool

As you can see, not enough space for the full 24-hour gear list. However, I don't have much circumference in my waist, and some folks have a little more room on their pistol belt for more things.

I'm upgrading to a more modern MOLLE setup with an Army FLC in ACU camo as soon as I get issued my ABU, because one with the other would look a little goofy.
Logged
Cadet Cullen Mayes
ES Sergeant
Waukesha Composite Sq.
"Ok, how about instead of doing that, let's not do that. Ok?"
The senseless drivel in this post is Copyright 2017 by waukwiz. All rights are reserved. Specific permission is given to quote this post here on CAP-Talk only.
NineteenTen
Recruit

Posts: 14
Unit: NER-NJ

« Reply #9 on: January 08, 2017, 02:28:55 AM »

So if a pistol belt isn't ideal than what would be the best 24/72 hour kit?
Logged
Spaceman3750
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 2,575

« Reply #10 on: January 08, 2017, 03:06:00 AM »

So if a pistol belt isn't ideal than what would be the best 24/72 hour kit?

Plenty of people use suspenders and a pistol belt for 24s just fine when they add the butt pack. The 24-hour list really isn't THAT much stuff. As Eclipse says, meals are an issue but you don't have to carry a full size MRE. I like several of the microwave meal pouches that you find in the canned pasta aisle at Wal Mart. They're small, cheap, and you don't actually have to microwave them. They only pack 3-400 calories though so I'd still throw in a couple Clif bars. You can also strip an MRE to save a lot of space.

I tell people a lot to use whatever they already have to start. Almost every cadet (and I can't see your sig so if it says what you are in there I can't see) has an extra backpack in the closet. As long as it is conservative in color (no Hello Kitty) I encourage them to use that starting out.

I like 5.11's Rush 24, though I don't use it for my 24s any more. I've seen several people that like the "assault 3" Spam mentioned. There's also a Canadian company that makes orange MOLLE but if you were thinking surplus I'm guessing it's over your budget (which is fine - no reason to drop $300 on an equipment carrier alone just starting out).

Gear is pretty personal. Use what works for you, but start cheap and work your way into being a geardo as your interest and budget allows later.

The only items I do not recommend cheating out on are boots and compasses. In those cases, buy the best your budget allows for (IMHO).
Logged
"Anyone can hold the helm when the seas are calm ... leadership is about weathering the storm."

The moment any commander or staff member considers themselves a gatekeeper, instead of a facilitator, they have failed at their job.
I can't fix all of CAP's problems, but I can lead from the bottom by building my squadron as a center of excellence to serve as an example of what every unit can be.
NineteenTen
Recruit

Posts: 14
Unit: NER-NJ

« Reply #11 on: January 08, 2017, 11:31:54 AM »

So if a pistol belt isn't ideal than what would be the best 24/72 hour kit?

Plenty of people use suspenders and a pistol belt for 24s just fine when they add the butt pack. The 24-hour list really isn't THAT much stuff. As Eclipse says, meals are an issue but you don't have to carry a full size MRE. I like several of the microwave meal pouches that you find in the canned pasta aisle at Wal Mart. They're small, cheap, and you don't actually have to microwave them. They only pack 3-400 calories though so I'd still throw in a couple Clif bars. You can also strip an MRE to save a lot of space.

I tell people a lot to use whatever they already have to start. Almost every cadet (and I can't see your sig so if it says what you are in there I can't see) has an extra backpack in the closet. As long as it is conservative in color (no Hello Kitty) I encourage them to use that starting out.

I like 5.11's Rush 24, though I don't use it for my 24s any more. I've seen several people that like the "assault 3" Spam mentioned. There's also a Canadian company that makes orange MOLLE but if you were thinking surplus I'm guessing it's over your budget (which is fine - no reason to drop $300 on an equipment carrier alone just starting out).

Gear is pretty personal. Use what works for you, but start cheap and work your way into being a geardo as your interest and budget allows later.

The only items I do not recommend cheating out on are boots and compasses. In those cases, buy the best your budget allows for (IMHO).

Thanks
Logged
Spam
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 822
Unit: GA-001/CV

« Reply #12 on: January 08, 2017, 12:52:10 PM »

So if a pistol belt isn't ideal than what would be the best 24/72 hour kit?

After comparative ruck testing in the field, and given economic factors for most entry level members, we've long since standardized on packs like this, known generally as "Level III assault packs", currently for all of $29.97 plus shipping etc.:
https://www.cheaperthandirt.com/product/mil-tec-level-iii-assault-pack-olive-drab-heavy-duty-600-denier-polyester-construction-4046872175138.do?sortby=ourPicks&refType=&from=Search


or this if you must bring the kitchen sink, for a whopping 35 bucks:
https://www.cheaperthandirt.com/product/mil-tec-level-i-large-assault-pack-od-green-1402201-4046872260513.do?sortby=ourPicks&refType=&from=Search



Spaceman is absolutely on target about not cheaping out on nav gear and boots. Your "Leather Personnel Carriers" (boots) will be your biggest mission enabler (or the things you curse more than your most bitter enemy). Save on the pack, spend on the boots.


Some SAR schools recommend/specify using international/blaze orange, for perfectly good reasons (we're not combat rescue, and orange is far more visible to our aircrew partners, I can tell you as an MO as well as GTL/GBD). Go with what works for your terrain, necessary ancillary gear, and local mission profile, and your team's configuration. We're here for advice, but in the end its up to you and your team and Wing.


V/r
Spam



Logged
Spam
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 822
Unit: GA-001/CV

« Reply #13 on: January 08, 2017, 12:58:53 PM »

BTW, the other comment on field stripping meals is also on target. Knowledgable active duty guys apparently routinely field strip their MREs to discard the high volume, low utility packets. We've had former cadets (who are infantry, Marine, or SF) return to comment about this, and we push it with our GTMs.


The below link is to a useful article on how to "ration strip" your MREs (and, eventually, civilian rations) to maximize your portability and minimize your space/weight:  http://www.combatreform.org/declutter.htm


WARNING: you'll spend hours reading their stuff...  it will lead you far into pondering the vagaries of international military cuisine...  ;)

V/r
Spam

Logged
NineteenTen
Recruit

Posts: 14
Unit: NER-NJ

« Reply #14 on: January 08, 2017, 02:40:45 PM »

BTW, the other comment on field stripping meals is also on target. Knowledgable active duty guys apparently routinely field strip their MREs to discard the high volume, low utility packets. We've had former cadets (who are infantry, Marine, or SF) return to comment about this, and we push it with our GTMs.


The below link is to a useful article on how to "ration strip" your MREs (and, eventually, civilian rations) to maximize your portability and minimize your space/weight:  http://www.combatreform.org/declutter.htm


WARNING: you'll spend hours reading their stuff...  it will lead you far into pondering the vagaries of international military cuisine...  ;)

V/r
Spam


I never really got why GTMs pack MREs other than the somewhat tacti-cool aspect of it. For my meals i just bring a bunch of cliff bars and trail mix.
Logged
Luis R. Ramos
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 2,391

« Reply #15 on: January 08, 2017, 02:51:54 PM »

Quote

For my meals i just bring a bunch of cliff bars and trail mix.


Will you eat "a bunch of cliff bars and trail mix" for dinner at home? No, it does not give the same nutrition.

An MRE gives more nutrition than "a bunch of cliff bars and trail mix."

Logged

Squadron Administrative Officer
Squadron Communication Officer
Squadron Emergency Services Officer
waukwiz
Recruit

Posts: 37
Unit: GLR-WI-048

« Reply #16 on: January 08, 2017, 02:53:48 PM »

BTW, the other comment on field stripping meals is also on target. Knowledgable active duty guys apparently routinely field strip their MREs to discard the high volume, low utility packets. We've had former cadets (who are infantry, Marine, or SF) return to comment about this, and we push it with our GTMs.


The below link is to a useful article on how to "ration strip" your MREs (and, eventually, civilian rations) to maximize your portability and minimize your space/weight:  http://www.combatreform.org/declutter.htm


WARNING: you'll spend hours reading their stuff...  it will lead you far into pondering the vagaries of international military cuisine...  ;)

V/r
Spam


I never really got why GTMs pack MREs other than the somewhat tacti-cool aspect of it. For my meals i just bring a bunch of cliff bars and trail mix.
Task guide says "meals", MREs are meals. They don't go bad and cook themselves. The tacticool aspect definitely an influence in a lot of cases, but MREs fill the job the task guide says.

Cadet Cullen Mayes
GLR-WI-048
"Flight Sergeant, why are we standing here in the mud?"

Logged
Cadet Cullen Mayes
ES Sergeant
Waukesha Composite Sq.
"Ok, how about instead of doing that, let's not do that. Ok?"
The senseless drivel in this post is Copyright 2017 by waukwiz. All rights are reserved. Specific permission is given to quote this post here on CAP-Talk only.
Spam
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 822
Unit: GA-001/CV

« Reply #17 on: January 08, 2017, 03:11:02 PM »

Quote

For my meals i just bring a bunch of cliff bars and trail mix.


Will you eat "a bunch of cliff bars and trail mix" for dinner at home? No, it does not give the same nutrition.

An MRE gives more nutrition than "a bunch of cliff bars and trail mix."


Luis, I hear what you say, but we're not talking "nutrition" here, we're just talking sustainment for physical tasks for a couple of days (optimal), supplemented by better food if it turns into weeks (DR scenario). Whenever I've worked sandbags, searches and evacuations for weeks in DR missions, we've ended up with hot meals provided - different scenario.


On MREs - they are shelf stable (ish). Thats about the biggest plus (MREs have contributed to more impacted cadet colons than I can count). So, I don't eat MREs myself any more. Dinty, L'Chef B.R.D. and energy bars, and really... his observations are valid, for him, I would say.


V/r
Spam


Logged
Spaceman3750
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 2,575

« Reply #18 on: January 08, 2017, 03:15:34 PM »

I would still recommend something resembling an actual meal at least during training, so you don't have to argue the finer points of it with a SET.

NineteenTen, any chance we'll be seeing you at NESA this year?
Logged
"Anyone can hold the helm when the seas are calm ... leadership is about weathering the storm."

The moment any commander or staff member considers themselves a gatekeeper, instead of a facilitator, they have failed at their job.
I can't fix all of CAP's problems, but I can lead from the bottom by building my squadron as a center of excellence to serve as an example of what every unit can be.
Eclipse
Too Much Free Time Award
***
Posts: 27,347

« Reply #19 on: January 08, 2017, 03:16:46 PM »

As mentioned above, also.

1 - At the rate of calorie burn in the field, you're going to wind up being hungry.

2 - "This checked my SQTR box, but I don't like what I brought for lunch so let's grind the mission to a halt and hit Wendy's."
(Excellent way to expose the veins on a GBD's forehead.)

CAP does not exist in a field-strip / combat expedient / austere environment. If your MRE doesn't fit, or you don't like Tabasco sauce, so be it,
but there's no expectation that you drill down to a multi-tool, a tarp, and 2 crackers.

In most cases you'll go out, come back for lunch, and go out again (actually you'll sit in the ICP until 10, drive around until noon, get RTB'ed and
then find an ELT at the airport the ICP is in..).
Right now I use Mountain house meals and supplement with instant stuff from the Piggly Wiggly, and I always
carry a Jetboil for coffee, etc., though in most cases everything but the compass, HT, and DF gear stays in the car.

If you attend a school like NESA or HMRS, they are going to have very specific ideas about gear and most "normal" CAP loadouts are going to be considered excessive
anyway, so at that time ask them and make adjustments.

Back to the above question, a SARMed vest is a much better selection then an LBV for CAP, but a school backpack works as well.
If you decide to use the mag pouches, you may want to consider cutting off the grenade straps as they are all but useless for CAP gear.

After more the 17 years in CAP, I realized this year why the venerable task guide distinguished between "on your person" and "daypack".
The "on your person" stuff can save your life, the "daypack" stuff makes it more comfortable - trying to cram everything in a harness
or vest means you can't easily separate "need" from "nice".  I grabbed an extra tacticool backpack from my closet, the "nice" stuff
goes in there (like the Jetboil), and doesn't get dragged around very much, other then to a picnic table for lunch.

I can't tell you how many times I've come across a GT separated from their plate carrier rig because they were in the head, eating,
napping, whatever, to remind them that if they got separated from their kevlar, their were up the brown creek.

ProTip - if it says "BlackHawk" or "Airsoft" on it, you've gone in one of two incorrect directions.
« Last Edit: January 08, 2017, 03:24:03 PM by Eclipse » Logged

"Effort" does not equal "results".
The contents of this post are Copyright 2017 by eclipse. All rights are reserved. Specific permission is given to quote this post here on CAP-Talk only.

Pages: [1] 2  All Print 
CAP Talk  |  Operations  |  Tools of the trade  |  Topic: 24Hr Pistol Belt Kit
 


Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP SMF 2.0.13 | SMF © 2016, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Page created in 0.222 seconds with 20 queries.
click here to email me