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etodd
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 765

« on: December 31, 2016, 10:57:24 PM »

Quote
(A) A flight of 250 nautical miles along airways or by directed routing from an air traffic control facility;

(B) An instrument approach at each airport; and

(C) Three different kinds of approaches with the use of navigation systems.

"A flight" .... meaning singular? Or could I take off from A, fly an approach at B, go missed and fly an approach at C to a full stop for fuel and lunch. Then fly back to A for the 3rd approach?
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etodd
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 765

« Reply #1 on: December 31, 2016, 11:15:38 PM »

Well now that I think about it, if I flew a total of 250 miles, going missed at two airports and just landed back at home base ... it would be a local flight. I 'have' to land at one of the other airports to make it a XC flight. So, may as well have lunch. LOL

(It can be confusing that what the FAA considers one flight, may be multiple sorties within the CAP world.)
« Last Edit: December 31, 2016, 11:47:54 PM by etodd » Logged
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Live2Learn
Seasoned Member

Posts: 420

« Reply #2 on: January 01, 2017, 03:23:17 PM »

Quote
(A) A flight of 250 nautical miles along airways or by directed routing from an air traffic control facility;

(B) An instrument approach at each airport; and

(C) Three different kinds of approaches with the use of navigation systems.

"A flight" .... meaning singular? Or could I take off from A, fly an approach at B, go missed and fly an approach at C to a full stop for fuel and lunch. Then fly back to A for the 3rd approach?

If you didn't land and turn off the engine (T&G or S&G at different airports are still within the definition of a single sortie), then you have just a single  sortie for all your flight that involved three airports.  See CAP R 60-1, Chapter 1, Section 1-3, paragraph u, subparagraphs (1) and (2) below: 

u. Flight / Sortie - A flight/sortie begins when the aircraft begins to move forward on takeoff. It ends after airborne flight when the aircraft returns to the surface and any of the following conditions occur:
          (1) The engine is stopped, or any engine on a multiengine aircraft, (except as required on CAPF 5 pilot flight evaluations or for tow planes operating during glider events).
          (2) A change is made in the crew which enplanes or deplanes a crewmember. A single flight may include multiple take-offs and landings.
          (3) ....
« Last Edit: January 01, 2017, 03:29:19 PM by Live2Learn » Logged
Panzerbjorn
Seasoned Member

Posts: 267
Unit: MER-NC-048

« Reply #3 on: January 01, 2017, 05:53:14 PM »

It took reading it a few times to figure out what you were actually asking.

There's nothing in the FAR that says you must actually make landings at any of the airports, just that the total distance is 250nm.  So, yes, you could do it all in one flight.  You can make a full stop landing, stop for fuel, bio break, lunch, etc. and still call it a flight.  Its vague kind of on purpose to allow flexibility in completing the requirement.

The examiner is going to simply look for the flight in your logbook and check the mileage and instrument approach type.  He's not going to ask you if you stopped for lunch.
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etodd
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 765

« Reply #4 on: January 01, 2017, 09:06:20 PM »



There's nothing in the FAR that says you must actually make landings at any of the airports, just that the total distance is 250nm.....

Actually, yes there is. Its the paragraph that precedes that specifies Cross Country. If you fly 250 miles and return without wheels touching down elsewhere , the FAA considers it a local flight. (Silly in my opinion, but thats the way they think.)

Quote
(ii) Instrument flight training on cross country flight procedures, including one cross country flight in a powered-lift with an authorized instructor that is performed under instrument flight rules, when a flight plan has been filed with an air traffic control facility, that involves -

(A) A flight of 250 nautical miles along airways or by directed routing from an air traffic control facility;

(B) An instrument approach at each airport; and

(C) Three different kinds of approaches with the use of navigation systems.
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Panzerbjorn
Seasoned Member

Posts: 267
Unit: MER-NC-048

« Reply #5 on: January 01, 2017, 09:54:30 PM »

Perhaps I misunderstood what you were asking?

If you just apply it towards a Private or Instrument Rating, yes.  The rules are different for ATP requirements.  It doesn't require landings, just go out 50 miles.

Your logbook is going to indicate which airports you went to and did approaches at.  For a long cross country like that, why would you not make a landing somewhere and stretch your legs?  Just make sure one of your airports is 50 miles away from your origin.
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etodd
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 765

« Reply #6 on: January 01, 2017, 10:28:49 PM »

  For a long cross country like that, why would you not make a landing somewhere and stretch your legs?  Just make sure one of your airports is 50 miles away from your origin.

Oh yes.  That goes back to my first question. Our usual instrument training flights almost always involve lunch in the middle. :)

The FAR just used the phrase "a flight" which started sounding singular to me and for a few moments had me going. I then realized it could be multiple "legs" (known as sorties to CAP folks) in one day to comprise 'the flight'. Heck, I guess you could go overnight for one leg and make a vacation out of it and it would still count. LOL

I would have deleted the thread once I figured it out myself, but you can't do that here so I answered it myself in the second post.
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CAP Talk  |  Operations  |  Aviation & Flying Activities  |  Topic: IFR Training Requirement
 


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