Are these badge placement measurements on the BDU correct?

[docrameous]

The biggest area of variation I have seen in BDUs is the occupational badge borders and placement. As I have asked around, I get varying answers on the regs.  Take your BDUs to a seamstress that is reportedly up on all the regs, you get varying results.  I have seen huge borders. I have seen 1/2" blue to blue, 1/8" blue to blue and anything in between.

I have not seen an illustration anywhere which describes what 39-1 means in a picture form. Here's a rough shot at it.  Is this correct?  If it is, I wonder how many uniforms would be done correctly if you could give something like this to the person sewing on the badges.

Please advise or correct!

[biomed441]

This is how I was educated both in CAP as a cadet, as a senior, and in the AF.

Badges will have 1/8" blue (your diagram is correct)

There will be 1/2" of space from white to white between badges (your diagram is correct)

There will be 1/2" space measured from the BLUE of the name tape to the WHITE of the lowest badge (diagram incorrect). 

Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

[LTC Don]

Yes, the diagram is correct.  The 1/8" blue border has been around for decades and only applies only to the cloth badges sewn onto field uniforms.  The 1/2" between the actual badge(s) (white), has also been around for decades and is the same measurement found on the service uniforms, that has also been around for decades.

So, the actual amount of uniform fabric showing between badges should be 1/4", which is the balance after subtracting the two 1/8" blue borders (1/4") from the 1/2" total measurement from the distance between the two badges (white).

I've been in CAP for right at 30 years, and it boggles the mind that CAP can't find a vendor that can supply embroidered insignia with a finished, 1/8" edge ready for sewing.   

[docrameous]

Excellent, so the outstanding point is...

There will be 1/2" space measured from the BLUE of the name tape to the WHITE of the lowest badge (diagram incorrect). 

Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

I have been told both ways... from the top of the blue and from the top of the white of the name tape.  Personally, it makes sense to go from the top of the blue of the name tape because this is in effect similar to the top line of the pocket.  But my logic may be incorrect.

As varied as the responses have been since I joined CAP, it would seem to me that it would make sense in the update of the 39-1 to put a diagram line this in there.

[docrameous]

I've been in CAP for right at 30 years, and it boggles the mind that CAP can't find a vendor that can supply embroidered insignia with a finished, 1/8" edge ready for sewing.   

Agreed. Maybe there is a technical reason why this can't be done, but it would sure make a lot of uniforms look a lot more professional because the results around CAP are really varied in quality and consistency.

[Eclipse]

I still say it can be interpreted either way, with the first badge on both sides being blue to blue, or in the case of the SARdog, blue to
black - that's one of the places it winds up looking off.

I agree on the inability to send the insignia properly sized, or just moving back to bright metal on field uniforms.

Worse is like the aircrew wings, which they inexclipably sent sewn, but >WRONG<.  There's a quarterly inch space instead of 1/8" - looks terrible
and a lot of people wear them that way because they figure they "must be correct".  Unstitching them, flattening them and re-stiching them is a huge PITA.

The A/C wings on dark blue don't have the "feature".

[docrameous]

Ok, based on what I heard, here is an updated illustration.  I have added the 'open to interpretation' bit about white to blue or white to white in relation to the first badge over the name tag.  I have also added the bit about if done properly there will be a 1/4" gap between the two badges.  Everybody agree?  I could have saved myself a lot of issues to have this when I have tried to explain this arrangement to people I have had sew my badges on. 

[Eclipse]

Well, it looks correct based on all factors, but I don't think you'll ever get everyone to agree which interpretation is "right".

[NIN]

The biggest area of variation I have seen in BDUs is the occupational badge borders and placement. As I have asked around, I get varying answers on the regs.  Take your BDUs to a seamstress that is reportedly up on all the regs, you get varying results.  I have seen huge borders. I have seen 1/2" blue to blue, 1/8" blue to blue and anything in between.

I have not seen an illustration anywhere which describes what 39-1 means in a picture form. Here's a rough shot at it.  Is this correct?  If it is, I wonder how many uniforms would be done correctly if you could give something like this to the person sewing on the badges.

Please advise or correct!

Personally, I've treated the blue of the nametag/branch tape as the edge to be measured from (much like if you were measuring from the top of the pocket). Have you seen the variations in alignment of the embroidered name on nametags and CAP tapes?  Its DEFINITELY > 1/8" depending on when the nametags were run.

so I go 1/2" from branch tape edge to white on the first badge (in my case, my GT badge) and then 1/2" white to white between my GT badge and my wings.  IIRC, that may have actually been spelled out that way in the 39-1 years ago, which is why I still do it. Not like I'm going to realize "Whoops, they changed the measurement standard.. Gotta go unstitch my wings here.."

The USAF used to call for it the same way, as I remember, too.  And our standards were based off theirs in that regard. 

I've always thought of it as "the edge of the name tage/branch tape is like the edge of the blues nametag. Nobody is measuring from the white of the text on the nametag.."

Also, the regulations haven't been terribly detailed in that regard, even over the years as you can see below:







In all cases, the historical precedent has been "above the nametag/branch tape".  Every military service has never, ever measured their badges from the text/embroidery of the tape, but always from the edge.

(I also read the 1980 39-1..did you know that female cadets were not required to wear name or branch tapes on fatigues back then? Weird)

[NIN]

I have been told both ways... from the top of the blue and from the top of the white of the name tape.  Personally, it makes sense to go from the top of the blue of the name tape because this is in effect similar to the top line of the pocket.  But my logic may be incorrect.

Your logic is actually spot on.

The top of the name tape or branch tape has been treated the same as "the edge of the pocket" for measurement purposes.  *always*

There is way, way too much variation in the branch tapes put out by our preferred vendor to ever assume that there will be 1/8" between the embroidery and the edge.

[docrameous]

In all cases, the historical precedent has been "above the nametag/branch tape".  Every military service has never, ever measured their badges from the text/embroidery of the tape, but always from the edge.

Fascinating post! Thank you.  I have to say that my experiences around getting this done right have been really bad.  I am on my third tailor after having hack jobs done on my uniform and am now getting professional results. Interestingly enough, this tailor put my GT badge on my new ABU shirt on exactly as you described above... from the top of the nametag to the white.

So here's a final update of the illustration. I would love it if they would put something like this in the 39-1 to create some consistency.  I also think Wings and Groups would do well to keep a register of reputable tailors that are competent in the craft of sewing on badges.  I can tell you in the Dallas Fort Worth area, the only outfit I will now let touch my stuff is http://www.armynavywarehouse.com  They are very, very good.

So without further ado....