... the PJOC and APJOC guys were quiet and did their thing.
Quote from: Jaison009 on February 14, 2017, 10:35:29 PM ... the PJOC and APJOC guys were quiet and did their thing. PJOC was an interesting and unique activity when I went through it. One thing for sure is that you were humbled afterwords. It was unique in the sense that it was one of the few activities that was completely isolated from the CAP fiefdom. Until 1998 there were no CAP SM's present ( I was actually one of the first male SM chaperones at the NM one in 98). It was all ran by joint spec ops personnel and overseen by the CAP-USAF RAPO's. Everyone was on an equal playing field, no matter who you thought you were. Since it was all AD and Reserve personnel running it, there was no National, Regional or Wing politics. If you were the golden star of your wing and region, you were nothing at PJOC. They made a point of it. Whether you had one stripe on your collar or multiple diamonds, the cadre made a point that everyone's rank to them was Cadet. They showed it too. They did things like find a reason to fire a C/Lt Col who was in charge and replaced him with a C/SSgt. They gave out participation trophies in the form of push ups and flutter kicks and your "Safe Space," was the spot you were doing push ups and flutter kicks. The funny thing I didn't even really want to do it as a cadet because I was a C/Lt Col at the time and knew that would get me extra attention. My friend convinced me, so I went to it. It was exactly as I expected. I came out of it with a weird dual sense of accomplishment. On one hand I did things I never tried before. At the same you woke up to the realization to a world that you were not as good at everything as you might have thought.If anyone wonders. Yeah I was fired, but before I even showed up. I was given permission, at a price to be one day late, due to coming in from another national activity that overlapped. Lets just say they took it as an opportunity to make an instructional point, LOL
I always wanted to do it but as a big boy and a cadet officer, there was definitely no way I was submitting myself to that hell and NM sucks no matter how you look at it.
Hmm... Ranger School, it always caught my attention, however the opportunity raised and I prefer to attend NESA. Less attitude and more instruction I guess. NESA was good. May be one day I attend to Hawk Mountain after the military of course to see how it is. PJOC is also in my list just to see how the AF train their guys. TopSent from my HTC Desire 530 using Tapatalk
Nearly all of my interactions with cadets so far have been at Oshkosh several years ago before I started trying to become involved with CAP myself. I had one up there pull the "Well, I'm the most qualified person in this conversation" and point out that had been through "Ranger school". That was his response to my pointing out that he didn't understand a very basic point on land navigation well enough to avoid misapplying it (he was making fun of another cadet who had gotten lost during some field exercise back home or something).I looked at him, smiled and went "So how was Eglin and Benning?""Huh?""Exactly. Unless you have an actual Ranger tab, no one except you cares.""But it's a big deal.""Did I stutter? If you want to be perceived as being trustworthy and competent you need to drop the holier than thou attitude. Full. Freaking. Stop."
The Ranger attitude took a bad turn five, ten years ago. Haven't seen the same problems recently.However, cadets in my wing generally do not go to HMRS unless they are cadet officers. This may have prevented some problems related to maturity.
I have been to 6 summer Hawks and as many winter ones.Have not seen any problems lately.
Quote from: CAPLTC on March 02, 2017, 09:12:59 PMI have been to 6 summer Hawks and as many winter ones.Have not seen any problems lately.Those problems typically arose once they got back to their "non-ranger" home units.
Quote from: Майор Хаткевич on March 03, 2017, 11:25:51 AMQuote from: CAPLTC on March 02, 2017, 09:12:59 PMI have been to 6 summer Hawks and as many winter ones.Have not seen any problems lately.Those problems typically arose once they got back to their "non-ranger" home units.Concur. That's when we tell them to take off their attitude (let alone the unauthorized tabs/hats/patches, which is the SURFACE issue).Look: good, useful training to standards is valuable no matter the source, right? Gaining an appreciation of the fundamentals, the advanced concepts, and the recurrency training for a range of specialties is not the issue - never was, as long as the training is to the task/standards/conditions that we've all standardized on. There is an invaluable benefit, in fact, in "cross breeding" for vitality and strength by introducing new ideas into stale organizations, and in shaking up the local status quos by exchanging new Tactics, Techniques, and Procedures (TTPS), to use the DoD terminology.The problems, as Major Hatkevitch points out, arise when the newly minted graduates come home with an attitude of braggadocio (of whatever program - it could be a DoD basic military training course, an "A" course, an officer commissioning route, all the way back down to a humble CAP special activity). When someone completes a one or two week course taught by SAR amateurs (and that would be ALL of our unpaid volunteer courses!!!!), and subsequently exhibits an attitude more consistent with a Tier 1 special ops soldier, then most of us call "BS" on that, and react negatively. In realist terms - the hats/badges are not the central issue (never were, to those with an ops focus). The attitude is, from an ORM standpoint. The reason is, when we regain a member who truly believes that they've gone from being a member of a whopping two years two months experience into a super SAR soldier - and then expects to be anointed and obeyed as the local expert, despite their true skill set (born of not just education and training, but also experience) then we've introduced a dangerous unstable element into our local SAR/DR team. At least until we can calm them down and re-center their attitude.My take:We need to continue to send our people to NESA, Hawk, Pathfinder, and the other schools, and support those events with $/staff.We need to continue to accept viewpoints from outside our own local area (again: Plato's allegory of the cave - look it up, cadets).We need to continue to set the expectation that capability results from all 3 factors: education, training, and experience, plus equipment.We need those activities to include a briefing to counter the hazardous "attitude" ORM effect post graduation.Finally, we need local units to work with their patch wearers to channel their energies/attitude constructively (and rein in the attitudes).Responsible DoD schools (e.g. HAVOC, Top Gun, Fighter Weps school) actually do include a discussion of the socio-psych impacts of returning to their home units as a patch wearer SME (subject matter expert), and how to avoid being a liability with an "attitude", and how to turn their expertise into being an asset. We should do the same, across the board.V/rSpam