"White-to white" or "blue to blue"

[Eclipse]

It's come up here before, and no matter how many shirt coats I sew, I'm still
never 100% sure I got it right.

CAPM 39-1 Page 68 (and similiar elsewhere)
http://www.capmembers.com/media/cms/M391_E6F33EAAEC28A.pdf
"5.1.1.3.6. Aviation (CAP, USAF or other service Aeronautical, Space,
Cyberspace) and Occupational Badges (CAP and USAF). Two embroidered Aviation or Occupational
badges may be worn sewn to the shirt ½ inch above the "Civil Air Patrol" tape over the left breast pocket.
The second badge will be centered ½ inch above the first badge. Chaplain and CAP aviation badges are
mandatory and will always be worn in the highest position. Not more than a combined total of two of
these badges will be worn on the wearer's left. When more than one CAP aviation badge is authorized,
only one will be worn. If a military aviation badge (aeronautical, space or cyberspace) is worn, it will be
worn in the second position. If chaplain badge is worn, it is worn in the highest position. Parachutist
wings are optional; however, when worn will be placed above an occupational badge or below a chaplain,
aeronautical, space or cyberspace badge. Occupational badges (excluding chaplain) are optional. All
ultramarine blue insignia will have 1/8 inch of blue showing at the widest and tallest point of the insignia.
When placing multiple insignia in the same area, measure from the insignia-to-insignia not blue to blue. "

Since everything else is 1/2" to the edge of the patch, I read this as "blue-to-blue" for the first one, and "white-to-white"
for the next one up when you have two.

The graphics in 39-1, of course, are zero help as they appear to adhere to neither.

http://captalk.net/index.php?topic=21238.msg390345#msg390345

[Abby.L]

I read the measurements simply as measurements, and your bolded portion as a clarification on the measurements. As to why they don't have the two statements closer together is beyond me.

[SarDragon]

All measurements are to and from the white part of the insignia. The first one is 1/2" from the top of the pocket to the white part of the insignia. No edges involved. The next one is measured, as you noted, white-to-white. When you're all done, the actual insignia (the white parts) will occupy the same places as the metal bits on the dress uniforms.

[Eclipse]

All measurements are to and from the white part of the insignia. The first one is 1/2" from the top of the pocket to the white part of the insignia. No edges involved. The next one is measured, as you noted, white-to-white. When you're all done, the actual insignia (the white parts) will occupy the same places as the metal bits on the dress uniforms.

?

The top of the pocket is covered by the name and branch tapes, and if you're comparing it to the dress uniforms,
then it would be blue-to-blue or at best blue-to-white since on the dress uniforms, the measurements are done from
the edge of the nameplate on that side, not the pocket.

[SarDragon]

All measurements are to and from the white part of the insignia. The first one is 1/2" from the top of the pocket to the white part of the insignia. No edges involved. The next one is measured, as you noted, white-to-white. When you're all done, the actual insignia (the white parts) will occupy the same places as the metal bits on the dress uniforms.

?

The top of the pocket is covered by the name and branch tapes, and if you're comparing it to the dress uniforms,
then it would be blue-to-blue or at best blue-to-white since on the dress uniforms, the measurements are done from
the edge of the nameplate on that side, not the pocket.

OK, reference line at the top of the (pocket, name/branch tape, name plate, ribbons), whichever is highest.

[Storm Chaser]

Since everything else is 1/2" to the edge of the patch, I read this as "blue-to-blue" for the first one, and "white-to-white"
for the next one up when you have two.

If you do blue-to-blue on the first one and white-to-white on the second one, it looks off; like you didn't measure it right.

I, personally, do white-to-white on everything, which looks more even and uniformed. The result is about a 1/4" between tapes and insignias. This is consistent with the way AAFES Alterations have sewn my Air Force insignias for over 20 years. With subdued insignias, not getting the measurements 100% right is not as big of deal because it's not very noticeable. With a blue background and white/silver thread, it's much more noticeable if you're off.

Measurements are important because of uniformity. But the overall appearance is much more so, at least for the Air Force. That's why when I place insignias on my blue service shirt, I measure carefully, but then try it on and adjust for visual illusions to make sure they're not just measured right, but actually look right.

[Eclipse]

^ That's the problem, much like the way hat insignia were worn until recently, "right" looks "wrong".

For my own uniforms, I'll do things the best way I can figure out, but in this case these are someone else's
uniforms and I don't want them getting called out by some goof with a micrometer.

[Storm Chaser]

That's understandable. CAPM 39-1 is not always clear. Graphics are meant to illustrate intent, but don't always do a good job, especially when many of them have discrepancies with the text.

CAPM 39-1, Para. 5.1.1.3.6, states that "badges may be worn sewn to the shirt ½ inch above the "Civil Air Patrol" tape over the left breast pocket.  The second badge will be centered ½ inch above the first badge... When placing multiple insignia in the same area, measure from the insignia-to-insignia not blue to blue."

I read that to mean 1/4" between the blue edge of badges and tape because of the 1/8" blue border. That means the 1/2" is between insignias not the blue edge. Of course, by my rationale I'm considering the text CIVIL AIR PATROL an "insignia". Otherwise, you would have the first badge 1/2" from the tape (blue-to-blue) and the second badge above it 1/4" between the blue border edge of the badges (white-to-white). I think that looks odd and I'm not sure it was the intent.