If you read CAPP 52-23 there's all kinds of "wiggle room" on the subject of appropriate training intensity.
Quote from: Panzerbjorn I've even seen PJs come back and demand a participant remove their patch if they did not graduate to standards. That patch isn't a participation trophy.That's a foul if they didn't meet the standard to graduate they shouldn't have received the patch or graduated.
I've even seen PJs come back and demand a participant remove their patch if they did not graduate to standards. That patch isn't a participation trophy.
Quote from: vorteks on December 22, 2016, 04:12:55 PMIf you read CAPP 52-23 there's all kinds of "wiggle room" on the subject of appropriate training intensity.If you read CAPP 52-23 there is zero "wiggle room"CAPP 52-13, page 11:http://www.capmembers.com/media/cms/P052_023_7B9F3810999BF.pdf"Drop and give me 20!”While such corrective physical training has a long andcherished history in the armed forces, CAP strictlyprohibits such corrective physical training in our CadetProgram because of the differences in trainingobjectives and outcomes as well as age, training, andmaturity of our cadets when compared to members ofthe US armed forces,"
Is "Drop and give me 20!" a synonym for "exercise as punishment"?
Again, the CPP itself states that inappropriately high levels of training intensity such as "exercise as punishment" do not necessarily meet the regulation's definition of hazing or abuse.
Quote from: vorteks on December 23, 2016, 11:26:51 AMIs "Drop and give me 20!" a synonym for "exercise as punishment"? Yes, it obviously is, clearly says so.
Quote from: vorteks on December 23, 2016, 11:26:51 AMAgain, the CPP itself states that inappropriately high levels of training intensity such as "exercise as punishment" do not necessarily meet the regulation's definition of hazing or abuse.Quote from: Eclipse on December 23, 2016, 11:37:32 AMCites please.
Cites please.
Quote from: vorteks on December 23, 2016, 11:26:51 AMIs "Drop and give me 20!" a synonym for "exercise as punishment"? Yes, it obviously is, clearly says so.Quote from: vorteks on December 23, 2016, 11:26:51 AMAgain, the CPP itself states that inappropriately high levels of training intensity such as "exercise as punishment" do not necessarily meet the regulation's definition of hazing or abuse.IncorrectCAPR 52-10 Page 8http://www.capmembers.com/media/cms/R052_010_2014_10_CAABD5624E9C2.pdf(1) An inappropriately high level of training intensity does not meet this regulation’s definitionof abuse or hazing unless it causes serious physical harm or serious emotional harm. Inappropriate yelling,using exercise as punishment, and creating an overly-stressful environment and other conduct listedin CAPP 52-23 are examples of inappropriately high training intensities that will be treated as boundaryconcerns.What it says is that "appropriate" intensity is not necessarily hazing. It then goes on to define "exercise as punishment" as "inappropriate".
What it says is that "appropriate" intensity is not necessarily hazing. It then goes on to define "exercise as punishment" as "inappropriate".
Yes, which part is unclear? Or are you seriously suggesting that behaviors which create "boundary concerns" are "appropriate"?
f. Boundary Concern. A boundary concern occurs when a member’s action might not be considered a best practice (see chapter 2) without meeting the definition of abuse or hazing. CAPP 52-23 contains examples of these best practices and boundary concerns.
Also, I never said "PT as punishment" was "hazing", nor does behavior have to be "hazing" to be prohibited.
Disclosure: I don't plan to test this out, I'm just debating the regulation.
CAPP 52-12 Page 12:http://www.capmembers.com/media/cms/P052012_v1_B10D6D4BBA39E.pdf"Why not push-ups?Most leaders of cadets understand completely that under CAP’s interpretation of the DoD definition ofhazing, incentive physical training (sometimes referred to as “push-ups for punishment”) is strictlyprohibited for the purpose of the CAP Cadet Program.""On the other end of the spectrum, some leaders of cadets are under the impression that we can neverdo push-ups in the Cadet Program. This is a common misconception. Push-ups can be used as a toolboth for physical fitness training (PT), and to build teamwork. However, beware of cause and effect.Scheduling a random PT session as a result of a failed barracks inspection still violates the CPP, nomatter how tight knit the team becomes in the process."Also, within the case studies on pages 13, 14, & 17:"Anticipated Responses: Assigning physical exercise as punishment meets the definition of hazing"