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Mathews
Recruit

Posts: 22
Unit: MER-NC-124

« on: November 30, 2016, 09:11:04 PM »

The Chaplain Corps announced a new Chaplain school at NESA, to be rolled out this year.  It's part of the new mission ratings for chaplains.  I can't find a date for the one this summer.  I assume it is at NESA in Indiana.  Does anyone know the specifics?  Thanks!

Ch, Capt Steve Mathews
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Eclipse
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« Reply #1 on: November 30, 2016, 09:30:21 PM »

By "new" this is an update to the existing Mission Chaplain, or something else?
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Brad
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 776
Unit: MER-SC-020

« Reply #2 on: November 30, 2016, 09:34:49 PM »

I think this past year they beta tested a new Chaplain course at NESA, from what I remember hearing while I was there.
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Brad Lee
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Fubar
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 614

« Reply #3 on: December 01, 2016, 01:21:30 AM »

By "new" this is an update to the existing Mission Chaplain, or something else?

See page 11:

http://capchaplain.com/downloads/Transmitter_Fall_2016.pdf

This is not going to help with the concept of moving CDI under cadet programs, instead this will only embolden the "Chaplain Lites" running around.

A emergency services qualification for a Character Development Instructor, even with the fancy "Chaplain Support Specialist" name simply doesn't make sense to me. Perhaps I'm just dense.
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Eclipse
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« Reply #4 on: December 01, 2016, 09:15:35 AM »

A emergency services qualification for a Character Development Instructor, even with the fancy "Chaplain Support Specialist" name simply doesn't make sense to me.

You just don't see the bigger picture!


In the wake of Hurricane Quicumque a CAP Rapid Character Force unpacks copies of various handouts
which will be used to facilitate discussions about online safety and manners to those in the affected areas.
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SouthernCross
Recruit

Posts: 26

« Reply #5 on: December 01, 2016, 10:56:29 AM »

Subject to change, the tentative dates are as follows, with all courses being held at Camp Atterbury, IN.

10-14 July:              Mission Chaplain - CAP Support Rating (MC-CS)
17-21 July:              Mission Chaplain - Disaster Support Rating (MC-DS)
18-22 September:   Mission Chaplain - Air Force support Rating (MC-AF)

For further information, refer to The Transmitter (Fall 2016 edition)
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Mathews
Recruit

Posts: 22
Unit: MER-NC-124

« Reply #6 on: December 01, 2016, 11:16:19 AM »

Thanks, Southern Cross!  I appreciate the dates! 

Ch, Capt Steve Mathews
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SouthernCross
Recruit

Posts: 26

« Reply #7 on: December 01, 2016, 11:20:45 AM »

Ch Matthews,

Expect more information coming your way via your region or wing chaplain.
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Fubar
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 614

« Reply #8 on: December 05, 2016, 09:12:30 PM »

More information about the new mission chaplain / CDI ES rating here:

https://www.capmembers.com/media/cms/Chaplain_Corps_Webinar__6_DEC_2016_69FF8939B457D.pdf
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Damron
Suspended

Posts: 219
Unit: xxx

« Reply #9 on: December 06, 2016, 11:54:31 PM »

I've never heard non-chaplains say we need to expand the role of CAP chaplains.  Most, like myself, accept CAP chaplaincy as a relic of the past that would be very tough to justify if CAP was starting from scratch today.  I fear it would be taboo to publicly question the value of chaplains in CAP.  Some traditions survive on inertia.

It's worth skimming through the PowerPoint referenced above to see the proposed patch/logo, it is a graphic arts tragedy. 
« Last Edit: December 07, 2016, 12:09:13 AM by Damron » Logged
Spam
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 913
Unit: GA-001

« Reply #10 on: December 07, 2016, 01:25:14 AM »

I've never heard non-chaplains say we need to expand the role of CAP chaplains.  Most, like myself, accept CAP chaplaincy as a relic of the past that would be very tough to justify if CAP was starting from scratch today.  I fear it would be taboo to publicly question the value of chaplains in CAP.  Some traditions survive on inertia.

It's worth skimming through the PowerPoint referenced above to see the proposed patch/logo, it is a graphic arts tragedy.

Hi Damron,

Reference Finding 4.10, page 46 of the OSD findings: http://www.defense.gov/Portals/1/Documents/pubs/DOD-ProtectingTheForce-Web_Security_HR_13Jan10.pdf

Then reference pp. 80-81 of the Air Force Follow On Review, out of the office of SECAF and the Chief of Staff:
https://www.hsdl.org/?view&did=14358


Therein, you've now "heard non-chaplains say that we need to expand the role of CAP chaplains".
The people making those statements are SECAF and the COS, our customers.
This is patently not a program surviving on inertia, as SAF has herein recognized a mission need for CAP support.


In short, this is a bit more than a draft patch. May I suggest you check it out...

V/r
Spam


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Eclipse
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« Reply #11 on: December 07, 2016, 01:58:25 AM »

There is a difference between CAP Chaplains, who, during extremely limited and specific circumstances, can
augment the USAF, are found to be lacking necessary training, which is reasonable, and the
suggestion or idea that CDIs, who were clearly intended as CP support staff, again with a very specific
and clear role within CAP, should be expected to act as mini-Chaplains during disaster situations.

In the former, the Chaplains may well be involved in missions CAP isn't as a matter of their
limited augmentee status, fair enough, you signed on for the whole boat when you decided to
become a CAP Chaplain, but in the latter, the average CAP CDI, nor member for that matter,
has any business anywhere near anything that encompasses "mass casualties".

I would also hazard that the average CAP CDI isn't involved in ES, either, as again, this
is a Cadet Program support role.

Part-time volunteers with a twice a-year 101 card are not prepared, nor expected to function
in an environment like that - situations which cause paid, experienced professionals permanent
mental damage.  Heck, the average CAP ES asset isn't prepared for the stress of the ops
tempo
of a real mission, let alone anything involving mass loss of life or injury.

In those cases CAP people belong "in the rear, with the gear" helping out in a tertiary role
while the professionals deal with the mayhem.

There is also the non-trivial issue of the fact that CAP doesn't actually have a Disaster Relief doctrine.

Yes, I know what CAPP225 says, it asserts the first and foremost role of the CDI as providing
cadet character instruction, and then it continues with Chaplain support, which is one major reason
a lot of otherwise extremely qualified and experienced senior members are not interested in the program -
members who before CDI existed did a great job providing the ML sessions but who are now
restricted from that ability.

The assertion is made regularly by the Chaplain Corps that more members sign up every year
to be CDIs.  No doubt, but not because there's a clamoring to support the Chaplains in their
role, but because units find themselves in the unfair position of having no Chaplain, and therefore
no one but the CC to provide CD sessions, which in many cases cause conflicts with other duties.
That is, without exception, the only reason anyone I have ever encountered within CAP has been interested
in the CDI appointment, including members who are clergy but are not interested in being Chaplains.

The question is easily answered - absent cadets, and their need for regular CD sessions, there would be no "CDIs" in CAP,
however given the nature of paramilitary and emergency service organizations, there would likely be
Chaplains.
« Last Edit: December 07, 2016, 02:10:57 AM by Eclipse » Logged

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Eclipse
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« Reply #12 on: December 07, 2016, 02:28:49 AM »

Further to the presentation itself...

The "mandate", apparently, was specifically directed at Chaplain Augmentees who are
required by regulation to maintain the same standard of training as military Chaplains,
again, fair enough.

But it also makes reference a number of times to both Fort Hood and "violence" - those
are not "disaster relief", those are law enforcement situations, CAP doesn't do that and
isn't allowed to (nor should it be looking to get involved there).

CAP Chaplains may find themselves in the very rare situation of being involved in
a Fort Hood situation by virtue of their augmentee ability, but not a CAP CDI.

Any justification for CDI ES training should leave Fort Hood and situations of "violence"
out of the verbiage for the same reasons aircrews don't do "surveillance" or similar LEA functions.

A larger question, why not just get the Chaplains the training they are missing with
local agencies and fulfill the mandate of the finding, rather then lighting up an entirely
new school that will leave a large number of MCs and unit Chaplains without the
requirements anyway?
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Damron
Suspended

Posts: 219
Unit: xxx

« Reply #13 on: December 07, 2016, 09:48:49 AM »

Chaplains are a special interest group in the military and in CAP.  It appears to be a group and mission that few want to question. More often than not, they get what they want.  After all, why upset the nice old guy?

If we need more mental health professionals, let's recruit them.  Very few of our chaplains have any credential in counseling, even pastoral counseling.  Despite this, we identify them as counseling resources.  Pastoral counseling makes as much sense to me as pastoral piloting.

To the credit of CAP chaplains, they know they are swimming in a secular ocean these days.  Their prayers are now usually prefaced with a message to non-believers and the prayers themselves have few doctrinal references. Instead of ordained pastors, we might want to pursue Tony Robbins graduates. 



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Spam
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« Reply #14 on: December 07, 2016, 12:20:55 PM »

Chaplains are a special interest group in the military and in CAP.  It appears to be a group and mission that few want to question. More often than not, they get what they want.  After all, why upset the nice old guy?

If we need more mental health professionals, let's recruit them.  Very few of our chaplains have any credential in counseling, even pastoral counseling.  Despite this, we identify them as counseling resources.  Pastoral counseling makes as much sense to me as pastoral piloting.

To the credit of CAP chaplains, they know they are swimming in a secular ocean these days.  Their prayers are now usually prefaced with a message to non-believers and the prayers themselves have few doctrinal references. Instead of ordained pastors, we might want to pursue Tony Robbins graduates.


Well, Jesus, the Buddha, and Moses would not have met the current DoD Chaplaincy vetting and endorsement standards, but they all were doubtless fine and wise counselors. I'll let Chappie or someone else answer in detail but I do believe that even the lowest common denominator accredited program accepted for DoD Chaplain endorsement (the Liberty University M.Div program, which is not accepted any more, apparently, as they raise the bar) does indeed have professional counseling course work requirements. Thus, as all of our CAP chaplains must meet DoD accreditation standards, all of our CAP chaplains have, indeed, had counseling training.


I do know that were I faced with the loss of my spouse and/or kids due to violence, I would far, far, rather have a DoD/CAP chaplain of my faith community than a Tony Robbins yammering at me. Credentials matter to governing bodies and program manager "gate keeper" types, not to those who need to receive spiritual care from those of their faith tradition. Bearing in mind again that the role here of the chaplain is pastoral care (not proselytization), this seems to me to be a sound measure to increase/optimize that access.


Again anecdotally from my personal standpoint: in my first Sqdn. command, while our unit was activated for 40+ days during the 1993 Midwest floods, one of my cadets (a senior C/NCO) died of a massive heart attack (he literally dropped dead in his BDUs and boots while serving his neighbors on the mission). Our unit was emotionally hit hard, and it was a MOWG CAP chaplain who stepped in to minister to us in our loss at a time when many of us (e.g. me) were strong in belief but didn't have a home church or pastor outside of CAP. We recovered, got back on the line, and continued to support the DR mission all summer. Tony Robbins? No thanks. We weren't starting a business, we were facing mortality and questions eternal.


YMMV. I think this is an OK measure.


V/r
Spam

PS, don't you think the "nice old guy" comment was a big disparaging of chaplains? (grin)



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Chappie
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Posts: 1,043

« Reply #15 on: December 07, 2016, 03:29:08 PM »

Just a "nice old guy" reading the remarks with interest (who has been a CAP Chaplain for 20+ years.  The Chaplain Corps just observed its 65th anniversary, so I have been around for awhile).   Thanks for the insights/observations. 

Spam -- the lowest common denominator for an appointment as a CAP Chaplain:


6. Chaplain Appointment.

a. Senior Membership.  As a prerequisite to appointment as a chaplain, an applicant must meet all requirements for senior membership (see CAPR 39-2, Civil Air Patrol Membership).

b. Ecclesiastical Endorsement. Chaplains will receive an ecclesiastical endorsement from a faith group listed by the Armed Forces Chaplains Board (AFCB) prior to appointment as a chaplain. Endorsements are valid until withdrawn or asked to be renewed by the individual endorser. Chaplains who change denominational affiliation must obtain a new endorsement. If a new endorsement or renewal is not obtained within 90 days, their chaplain status will be withdrawn. The endorsement shall certify that the applicant is: (1) A fully ordained or qualified clergy/religious professional of their faith group. 

(2) Actively engaged in or retired from a denominationally approved vocation.

(3) Recommended as being spiritually, morally, intellectually and emotionally qualified to represent the applicant’s religious body as a CAP chaplain.


c. Formal Educational Requirements. Chaplain applicants shall meet the educational requirements specified in DoD Instruction 1304.28 as follows: (1) "The educationally qualified applicant shall possess a baccalaureate degree with not less than 120 semester hours (180 quarter hours) from a qualifying educational institution.” 

(2)  “The educationally qualified applicant shall also possess a post-baccalaureate graduate degree in the field of theological or related studies from a qualifying educational institution. A qualifying graduate degree program shall require no fewer than 72 semester hours (108 quarter hours) of graduate-level work. Related studies may include graduate courses in pastoral counseling, social work, religious administration and similar disciplines when one-half of the earned graduate credits include topics in general religion, world religions, the practice of religion, theology, religious philosophy, religious ethics and/or the foundational writings from the applicant's religious tradition."

(3) "A qualifying educational institution is an accredited college, university, or school of theology listed in the current edition of the American Council on Education (ACE), Accredited Institutions of Post-secondary Education and relevant ACE supplements to that publication (Reference (e)), or any unaccredited institution that meets the requirements of subparagraphs 6.2.1 through 6.2.4." 

(4) The Chief of the Chaplain Corps (CAP/HC) may grant a waiver to those who do not meet the graduate study requirement providing they meet all other requirements and present valid documentation of at least 5 years of full time ministry experience as a pastor within their denomination. 

(5) All other exceptions to the educational qualifications of a chaplain applicant shall be determined in accordance with DoD Instruction 1304.28. 

Eclipse - the impetus of the mandated training (based on the Ft. Hood shooting/finding) was not restricted to "violence" rather it is to any event that might be considered "mass casualty".
« Last Edit: December 07, 2016, 03:34:18 PM by Chappie » Logged
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Chappie
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« Reply #16 on: December 07, 2016, 03:47:16 PM »

Chaplains are a special interest group in the military and in CAP.  It appears to be a group and mission that few want to question. More often than not, they get what they want.  After all, why upset the nice old guy?

If we need more mental health professionals, let's recruit them.  Very few of our chaplains have any credential in counseling, even pastoral counseling.  Despite this, we identify them as counseling resources.  Pastoral counseling makes as much sense to me as pastoral piloting.

To the credit of CAP chaplains, they know they are swimming in a secular ocean these days.  Their prayers are now usually prefaced with a message to non-believers and the prayers themselves have few doctrinal references. Instead of ordained pastors, we might want to pursue Tony Robbins graduates.

"More often than not, they get what they want" .... that is news to me having served at all levels of CAP :)

Most chaplains have had some training in counseling either in their years of academia or in-service training.

Serving as a LE, military or CAP chaplain does require a "special breed" of individual who can serve in a secular, pluralistic environment.
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Chappie
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« Reply #17 on: December 07, 2016, 03:50:15 PM »

<snip>
It's worth skimming through the PowerPoint referenced above to see the proposed patch/logo, it is a graphic arts tragedy.

Please note that the slide regarding the badges/patches said it was "Proposed"...not "Approved" - big difference ;)
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Eclipse
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« Reply #18 on: December 07, 2016, 03:59:21 PM »

Eclipse - the impetus of the mandated training (based on the Ft. Hood shooting/finding) was not restricted to "violence" rather it is to any event that might be considered "mass casualty".

I don't think I said it was, but it certainly was one of the issues raised and clearly one of the places intended for the potential use of CDIs.

I still stand by the fact that few if any CAP members, absent external training or affiliation, are prepared to be involved in >any< "
mass casualty situation, and CAP should steer well clear of those incidents.
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Chappie
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Posts: 1,043

« Reply #19 on: December 07, 2016, 04:08:27 PM »

Eclipse - the impetus of the mandated training (based on the Ft. Hood shooting/finding) was not restricted to "violence" rather it is to any event that might be considered "mass casualty".

I don't think I said it was, but it certainly was one of the issues raised and clearly one of the places intended for the potential use of CDIs.

I still stand by the fact that few if any CAP members, absent external training or affiliation, are prepared to be involved in >any< "
mass casualty situation, and CAP should steer well clear of those incidents.

A lot of this training for the new MC rating came directly from CAP's involvement in "Deepwater Horizon" and various hurricane/flooding/etc missions. 
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CAP Talk  |  Operations  |  Emergency Services & Operations  |  Topic: Chaplain Corps Emergency Services School
 


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