ASAR Ribbon

[Devil Doc]

I have searched but only found something from 2007.

A person that is not me asked, does Practice Missions and or SAREX count towards the ASAR Ribbon? And does Practice AP Missions count towards the ASAR?

[Eclipse]

No - only actuals. 

See CAPR 39-3, page 13:
https://www.capmembers.com/media/cms/R039_003_83459660D4F44.pdf
"c. Air Search and Rescue Ribbon. Participate in at least 10 search and rescue sorties. A
bronze clasp is awarded for each additional 10 sorties. All sorties must be in support of an actual
search and rescue mission authorized by competent authority"

[Devil Doc]

Ya, That is what I told them. Unfortunately, there is not many Actual Air Sorties that happen anymore. I looked on the cap members website and saw that, just wanted confirmation.

[THRAWN]

Ya, That is what I told them. Unfortunately, there is not many Actual Air Sorties that happen anymore. I looked on the cap members website and saw that, just wanted confirmation.

It's not just for air ops, ground ops qualify too.

[Eclipse]

Um...your profile says "NC" - I seem to recall some recent activity in that area.  Can't put my finger on it, though...

[Devil Doc]

Ya, We assisted in Hurricane Matthew I didn't do Air ops. I just did ground stuff for 3 days. We get some calls for air or ground, but most of the time I am at work and cant do it.

[Eclipse]

Ya, We assisted in Hurricane Matthew I didn't do Air ops. I just did ground stuff for 3 days. We get some calls for air or ground, but most of the time I am at work and cant do it.

You should be on a PA somewhere for at least one DR-V.

Oops, in the other thread you said you did...

[Devil Doc]

Ya, I got a DR-V. I loved every minute of that trip.... it had to be cut short because of my job

[LTC Don]

It is unfortunate that the SAR ribbon is only prescribed during actual SAR work.  Perhaps if it was reclassified as the Emergency Services Ribbon, those sortie hours spent doing other than SAR would then count.

From CAPR 39-3 --

c. Air  Search  and  Rescue  Ribbon.
    Participate  in  at  least  10  search  and  rescue  sorties.    A  bronze  clasp  is  awarded  for  each  additional  10  sorties.    All  sorties  must  be  in  support  of  an  actual  search and rescue mission authorized by competent authority.
(1)  Aircrew Members.  A bronze three-bladed propeller device will be worn centered on Air Search and Rescue Ribbons earned as aircrew members.   
(2)  Ground  Personnel.    Credit  given  will  be  computed  on  the  basis  of  time  spent  on  a  mission and the nature of the duties performed.
(a)  Ground personnel performing hazardous duties such as ground rescue or ground search,  may  be  credited  with  one  sortie  for  each  4  hours  of  actual  participation,  but  not  to  exceed  three sorties in any 24-hour period.
(b)  Ground  personnel  performing  non-hazardous  duties,  such  as  base  support  or  staff  functions,  may  be  credited  with  one  sortie  for  each  8  hours  of  participation,  but  not  to  exceed  two sorties for any 24-hour period.
(3)  Combined Participation.  A member who earns the Air Search and Rescue Ribbon as an aircrew member is identified as an aircrew member by having the bronze propeller attached to the ribbon.    If  the  same  individuals  earn  clasps  as  a  ground  member  of  searches  or  missions,  they  are 
authorized to attach the clasps to the same ribbon with the bronze propeller.  This applies also to the individual  who  initially  earned  the  Air  Search  and  Rescue  Ribbon  as  a  member  of  a  ground  search party  and  at  some  later  date  participates  in  enough  searches  as  an  aircrew  member;  the  member  is  then  authorized  to  attach  the  bronze  propeller  to  the  ribbon.    The  first  clasp,  when  awarded  to  a  member with a bronze propeller already on their ribbon, is placed in the middle of the wearer's left-hand side on the ribbon between the edge and the propeller; the second, on the opposite side in the same position.  Additional clasps are placed so that the ribbon will have a balanced appearance until a silver clasp replaces five bronze clasps.

We developed a form years ago that mirrored the criteria that members could carry into the field to document hours/sorties spent, that they could then turn in to be logged so we know once they qualified for the ribbon.  Not many missions happening these days so it's kind of fallen out of use.

[Luis R. Ramos]

By allowing those extra training hours on the Air Search and Rescue ribbon, would not there be a risk of a member receiving or claiming double credit for their work?

Training missions can be claimed for the Disaster Relief Ribbon without the V device. Granted, other criteria for this ribbon may be harder to get. So maybe should we request this ribbon be discontinued, but those that earned it continue to wear it? This would make only one DR, the one with the V device, the one that can be earned. Some of the requirements for the older one could then be passed on to the Air Search and Rescue ribbon.

[Eclipse]

The DR should be updated to remove the ARC classes and be a decoration for CAP service - 10 DR sorties
earns the ribbon, with the still being an option when appropriate.

No idea why this dec needs less CAP service and training outside to earn.  My guess would be back in the
day there was a lot less pure DR going around - plenty of it today.

There isn't much CAP ES that doesn't fall into SAR/DR in one way or another.

[JC004]

At an absolute minimum, the name should be changed to remove "Air."

[kwe1009]

The requirements for the DR and ASAR ribbon should be comparable.  Saying "10 DR missions" is pretty unrealistic as they are far more rare than SAR missions.

Definitely remove "Air" for the ASAR ribbon name.

[Eclipse]

The requirements for the DR and ASAR ribbon should be comparable.  Saying "10 DR missions" is pretty unrealistic as they are far more rare than SAR missions.

Not in my wing, nor really much of the East coast or MidWest in the last 5 or so years.  Mine's got 3 punches and I'm not all that active.
We have others in the wing with a bunch more - one guy got three his first year in CAP (rat).  The reality is that just about any natural disaster
these days of enough consequence to include CAP is likely to go POTUS as some point due to the way FEMA funding is dole'd out,
even to include localized flooding situations.

Agree on removing the "Air", since that's not correct even by the definition of the dec.

Where it gets a little gray is something like house-to-house well-being checks - is that SAR or DR?  I've sen it go either way.

[Devil Doc]

Shouldn't there be some sort of decoration/ribbon for people who do "Training" or "Practice" missions? Ie... 10/20/30 practice missions? besides the standard 2 or 3 needed to keep Air Crew Qualified..... shouldnt there be something to show that hey... this guy is very active in ES/DR etc.

[arajca]

I submitted one though channels. It went...somewhere...

[PHall]

Shouldn't there be some sort of decoration/ribbon for people who do "Training" or "Practice" missions? Ie... 10/20/30 practice missions? besides the standard 2 or 3 needed to keep Air Crew Qualified..... shouldnt there be something to show that hey... this guy is very active in ES/DR etc.

Yeah, it's called a Current 101 Card.

[Luis R. Ramos]

As a "decoration or ribbon?"

So, do you have a ribbon holder for it? And what is the order of precedence when including the 101 card with the ribbons... left or right of the Air Search Rescue Ribbon? Left or right of the Find Ribbon...?

[Ozzy]

Ground team badges, Air Crew Wings, IC badge... there are a lot of decorations for those that are very into ES...

[arajca]

Unless, of course, you don't fly or run around in the woods. Then there's...nothing. Besides, once you earn the badge, you don't have to do anything with the qualification ever again - once earned, they're permanent.

[Luis R. Ramos]

Unfortunately wearing the badges according to current regulations is not permanent.

Now what they say is wearing of badges for expired quals is at the option of the Wing commander. Have not heard any wing king saying no, but is not as permanent as some of us would want to...

[NIN]

Unfortunately wearing the badges according to current regulations is not permanent.

Now what they say is wearing of badges for expired quals is at the option of the Wing commander. Have not heard any wing king saying no, but is not as permanent as some of us would want to...

That's not precisely what the regulations says. That's not even the intent of the paragraph.

e. Once a rating, award, badge, or patch is earned in accordance with this regulation, the member may continue to wear it even if they no longer hold the associated qualifications unless directed by the wing, region, or national commander to remove it through another formal command action. 

IOW, the badges and ratings are permanent unless you did something so stupid as to get your rating pulled and the badge pulled and tell it has to be directed formally. 

The wing commander doesn't have the option to disallow permanent wear generally.

[Luis R. Ramos]

That is not how it is perceived. Some members have discussed this and come to the conclusion the wing commander does have the option to disallow permanent wear generally. Just like wearing the flag is an option allowed by the wing king. That is, until a few months anyway.

Why didn't you add the disclaimer of "with cause" at the end?

[PHall]

That is not how it is perceived. Some members have discussed this and come to the conclusion the wing commander does have the option to disallow permanent wear generally. Just like wearing the flag is an option allowed by the wing king. That is, until a few months anyway.

Why didn't you add the disclaimer of "with cause" at the end?

Uh, your Wing Commander has no authority at all with the flag. And the 39-1 is actually pretty clear on this. It was required and then became optional.
And since it's not on the list of uniform items the Wing Commander can authorize for wear in their wing, they have no say in the matter.

[NIN]

I'd like to know what regulations you're reading, Luis.

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[JC004]

Some members have discussed lots of things and got them wrong.

In years past, I have personally got the hands of more than one wing cc smacked by a region or national cc.

[Mitchell 1969]

Ground team badges, Air Crew Wings, IC badge... there are a lot of decorations for those that are very into ES...

None of those mentioned are decorations.

Just saying.

[Luis R. Ramos]

Nin,

You quoted it.

From OPERATIONS RATINGS, AWARDS AND BADGES, CAPR 35-6 Sect 8. e.

Once a rating, award, badge, or patch is earned in accordance with this regulation, the
member may continue to wear it even if they no longer hold the associated qualifications unless directed by the wing, region, or national commander to remove it through another formal command action.

Again, with this wording it means any commander can use it to ask a member to remove the badge at will. This is how it is perceived by some, and given the alleged communications by some in this board, it is allegedly happening.

[NIN]

Show me the formal command action. It'll be in writing. I'll wait.

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[Luis R. Ramos]

Show ME where I SAID it actually happened, or is happening!

PLEASE read carefully messages before replying.

I said "It can happen."

There is a BIG difference.

[SarDragon]

Enough of the measuring contest!