Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?
November 24, 2017, 08:14:53 PM
Home Help Login Register
News:

CAP Talk  |  Operations  |  Aviation & Flying Activities  |  Topic: Missing Pilots
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
Pages: [1] Print
Author Topic: Missing Pilots  (Read 1507 times)
etodd
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 853

« on: November 20, 2016, 05:09:12 PM »

Anyone have ideas for motivating non-current pilots to change their status?

I'm wondering how many FAA Certificated Pilots we have that have let their Form 5s lapse and just haven't gotten around to it in months or maybe years?

I'm not talking about those who lost medicals.

How large of a resource do we have in pilots who cannot fly due to not being current?
Logged
MS - MO - AP - MP
Live2Learn
Seasoned Member

Posts: 467

« Reply #1 on: November 20, 2016, 05:23:10 PM »

Oh, most of the former CAP pilots fly just fine.  Just not in CAP aircraft.  I know of several.  Reasons I've heard from those pilots vary from "I'm too busy" for a lot of valid (to them) reasons, concerns that the CAP pilots are a "closed group" (i.e. a perceived  "primadonna" cabal), "maybe later, but not now..." [see "I'm too busy...", aircraft maintenance doesn't meet personal standards, "I've got my own plane, so why fly CAP", "can't afford CAP (Come And Pay issues)", "kids have moved on, so it's time for me too", "Way too much paperwork", "no real missions", etc.
Logged
etodd
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 853

« Reply #2 on: November 20, 2016, 05:38:54 PM »

Oh, most of the former CAP pilots fly just fine.  Just not in CAP aircraft.  I know of several.  Reasons I've heard from those pilots vary from "I'm too busy" for a lot of valid (to them) reasons, concerns that the CAP pilots are a "closed group" (i.e. a perceived  "primadonna" cabal), "maybe later, but not now..." [see "I'm too busy...", aircraft maintenance doesn't meet personal standards, "I've got my own plane, so why fly CAP", "can't afford CAP (Come And Pay issues)", "kids have moved on, so it's time for me too", "Way too much paperwork", "no real missions", etc.

I get it. So why still come to meetings? Just for the social aspect? That appears to be the case for some. Do they still go around town claiming to be a CAP pilot even though they can't be called for a mission since they let it all lapse?

I'm not fussing about them. I'm just wondering what a typical Squadron could do to motivate and excite these folks into upping their game?
Logged
MS - MO - AP - MP
Spaceman3750
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 2,609

« Reply #3 on: November 20, 2016, 05:43:04 PM »

Ultimately only a small subset of GA pilots have the personality to be successful as a CAP pilot. The desire to do more with their skills than just bore holes in the sky, embracing our training and oversight requirements as a way of keeping them alive in an organization that performs riskier-than-usual flying as a norm, and viewing CAP as a means to serve and not a means for cheap or free flying are all critical traits. Some people just don't have them.

Done right, CAP pilot can be a full time CAP job. At least here, there's plenty of work to go around.
Logged
The moment any commander or staff member considers themselves a gatekeeper, instead of a facilitator, they have failed at their job.
I can't fix all of CAP's problems, but I can lead from the bottom by building my squadron as a center of excellence to serve as an example of what every unit can be.
Eclipse
Too Much Free Time Award
***
Posts: 27,996

« Reply #4 on: November 20, 2016, 05:47:24 PM »

So why still come to meetings? Just for the social aspect? That appears to be the case for some.
The "Tuesday Groove" - the car has been going there for years, might as well be in it, and also far too many
just don't show up at all.

Do they still go around town claiming to be a CAP pilot even though they can't be called for a mission since they let it all lapse?
In many cases, yes.  It's much more fun / easier to tell people at parties that you're in the USAF Aux then to actually
show up and carry a corner.

Ultimately only a small subset of GA pilots have the personality to be successful as a CAP pilot. The desire to do more with their skills than just bore holes in the sky, embracing our training and oversight requirements as a way of keeping them alive in an organization that performs riskier-than-usual flying as a norm, and viewing CAP as a means to serve and not a means for cheap or free flying are all critical traits. Some people just don't have them.

Done right, CAP pilot can be a full time CAP job. At least here, there's plenty of work to go around.

Agree all the way around.
Logged

"Effort" does not equal "results".
The contents of this post are Copyright 2017 by eclipse. All rights are reserved. Specific permission is given to quote this post here on CAP-Talk only.

FW
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 2,138

« Reply #5 on: November 20, 2016, 06:31:09 PM »

Up until last year, I've been actively flying for CAP (about 25 years, and many 100s of hours total, over a 40 year membership).  I'm just tired of doing it, and happy to let the "others" have fun flying missions, and going forward.  My new "fun" is volunteering for Angel Flight and PALS, helping those who need transport get to where they're going. I have no regrets, and have no need to explain further. CAP is still a part of my life, however the flying part is over...
Logged
Live2Learn
Seasoned Member

Posts: 467

« Reply #6 on: November 20, 2016, 07:23:22 PM »


I get it. So why still come to meetings? Just for the social aspect? That appears to be the case for some. Do they still go around town claiming to be a CAP pilot even though they can't be called for a mission since they let it all lapse?


Good questions.  Dunno if ANY ex-CAP pilots go around claiming to be "CAP", if there are I've never met 'em or heard of such boasts.  What would be the point?

Some former CAP pilots continue to be active and contributing members, just not in a CAP flying role.  Some former pilots disappear, to be bumped into occasionally at the airport.  I suppose some move on with their lives.  I know half dozen or so no-longer-flying-CAP who are fairly active.  FWIW, I see a lot of people with a CPL or higher who come to meetings, express interest and fade.  Other pilots come to meetings,  but never quite step up from PPL in low powered aircraft to a high performance endorsement.  A lack of "real" missions other than "O" flights and exercises seems to be a factor with others. "What the point" of training if there's no greater purpose [paraphrased].   Socializing seems to motivate some ex-pilots and pilots with unfulfilled aspirations to become CAPF 5/CAPF 91 holders to continue attending meetings.  Spaceman3750 is right about one thing:  "CAP pilot can be a full time CAP job."

Logged
etodd
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 853

« Reply #7 on: November 20, 2016, 09:13:44 PM »

Up until last year, I've been actively flying for CAP (about 25 years, and many 100s of hours total, over a 40 year membership).  I'm just tired of doing it, and happy to let the "others" have fun flying missions, and going forward.  My new "fun" is volunteering for Angel Flight and PALS, helping those who need transport get to where they're going. I have no regrets, and have no need to explain further. CAP is still a part of my life, however the flying part is over...

No explanation asked for in cases like yours. You've had a long full 'career'. :clap:
Logged
MS - MO - AP - MP
etodd
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 853

« Reply #8 on: November 20, 2016, 09:16:22 PM »

Up until last year, I've been actively flying for CAP (about 25 years, and many 100s of hours total, over a 40 year membership).  I'm just tired of doing it, and happy to let the "others" have fun flying missions, and going forward.  My new "fun" is volunteering for Angel Flight and PALS, helping those who need transport get to where they're going. I have no regrets, and have no need to explain further. CAP is still a part of my life, however the flying part is over...

No explanation asked for in cases like yours. You've had a long full 'career'. :clap:

That may not have come out right. I'm not 'asking for explanations' from anyone. I was just curious as to thoughts on the broad issue and all of you have answered it for me. I see a broader picture now. Thanks.
Logged
MS - MO - AP - MP
Briank
Member

Posts: 60
Unit: GLR-OH-064

« Reply #9 on: November 21, 2016, 07:03:07 PM »

Anyone have ideas for motivating non-current pilots to change their status?

I'm wondering how many FAA Certificated Pilots we have that have let their Form 5s lapse and just haven't gotten around to it in months or maybe years?

I'm not talking about those who lost medicals.

How large of a resource do we have in pilots who cannot fly due to not being current?

Not just lapse, but haven't been able to get it done to begin with too?

My old unit had a dozen pilots, of which only 3 were able to get Form 5 current in the last year.  Local airplane availability has been our issue.  A couple of guys did the drive across the state for one of the training weekends thing to get checked out, but that's not something that you can reasonably do all the time to stay current.  If there's not an airplane within an hour's drive, it gets surprisingly hard to stay current.
Logged
Spaceman3750
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 2,609

« Reply #10 on: November 21, 2016, 08:54:11 PM »

Anyone have ideas for motivating non-current pilots to change their status?

I'm wondering how many FAA Certificated Pilots we have that have let their Form 5s lapse and just haven't gotten around to it in months or maybe years?

I'm not talking about those who lost medicals.

How large of a resource do we have in pilots who cannot fly due to not being current?

Not just lapse, but haven't been able to get it done to begin with too?

My old unit had a dozen pilots, of which only 3 were able to get Form 5 current in the last year.  Local airplane availability has been our issue.  A couple of guys did the drive across the state for one of the training weekends thing to get checked out, but that's not something that you can reasonably do all the time to stay current.  If there's not an airplane within an hour's drive, it gets surprisingly hard to stay current.

Wing DO's are supposed to be factoring this into check pilot development and aircraft placement. We're supposed to be making it easier for our people to do good, not harder.
Logged
The moment any commander or staff member considers themselves a gatekeeper, instead of a facilitator, they have failed at their job.
I can't fix all of CAP's problems, but I can lead from the bottom by building my squadron as a center of excellence to serve as an example of what every unit can be.
aviatorguy32
Newbie

Posts: 4
Unit: GLR-IN-144

« Reply #11 on: November 21, 2016, 11:35:38 PM »

Then there's pilot's like me who want to be a mission pilot just short on hours.  Picking up hours as TMP has been hit or miss and having to pay for it all takes a while.  Yes I am current and qualified as TMP as well as MS, MO, and FRO.  Just seems like there should be an easier path for members who are active and want to be a MP as their goal. 
Logged
ℛedℬaron
Recruit

Posts: 21
Unit: GLR-IN-036

« Reply #12 on: November 24, 2016, 02:59:56 AM »

You could hold events like the one's at Oshkosh except instead of targeting young people and trying to get them to fly, talk to the senior pilots that have abandoned flying.
Logged
The English had hit upon a splendid joke. They intended to catch me or to bring me down.
-Manfred von Richtofen
TheSkyHornet
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 884

« Reply #13 on: November 28, 2016, 09:47:28 PM »

I'm having a hard enough time trying to get into the darn plane for my Form 5 training.

I'm not in the good old boys club at the local air unit, so I don't get first dibs. It's always the new guy that walks in the door.

Meh, I'll just wait then, I suppose.
Logged
Paul Creed III
Forum Regular

Posts: 189
Unit: GLR-OH-254

« Reply #14 on: November 29, 2016, 09:20:52 AM »

I'm having a hard enough time trying to get into the darn plane for my Form 5 training.

I'm not in the good old boys club at the local air unit, so I don't get first dibs. It's always the new guy that walks in the door.

Meh, I'll just wait then, I suppose.

Have you escalated the issue up the chain to the group commander?
Logged
Lt Col Paul Creed III, CAP
Great Lakes Region Cyber Programs Officer
Ohio Wing Group 3 Commander
Pages: [1] Print 
CAP Talk  |  Operations  |  Aviation & Flying Activities  |  Topic: Missing Pilots
 


Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP SMF 2.0.13 | SMF © 2016, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Page created in 0.102 seconds with 20 queries.