Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?
August 16, 2017, 03:35:58 PM
Home Help Login Register
News:

CAP Talk  |  Operations  |  Safety  |  Topic: Epipen
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
Pages: 1 [2]  All Print
Author Topic: Epipen  (Read 2055 times)
PHall
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 5,755

« Reply #20 on: August 25, 2016, 02:12:39 PM »

I imagine that any school that had them in inventory probably has an expired inventory. Prescription drugs generally aren't kept "on inventory" unless you have someone licensed to use them.

They only have a "shelf life" of 1 year. Which means a school would need to replace them every school year at a minimum.
Logged
SarDragon
Global Moderator

Posts: 9,918
Unit: NAVAIRPAC

« Reply #21 on: August 25, 2016, 06:13:18 PM »

Is that the "Discard after" date from the pharmacy, or the actual expiration date from the package? Sometimes there is a big difference.

Sent from my phone.

Logged
Dave Bowles
Maj, CAP
AT1, USN Retired
Mitchell Award (unnumbered)
C/WO, CAP, Ret
grunt82abn
Forum Regular

Posts: 185

« Reply #22 on: August 25, 2016, 06:21:57 PM »

The other option people have, with allergies, is to obtain a vial of Epinephrine 1:1000 and a needle and syringe, draw it up and stick yourself. My department does this as a cheap alternative to the EpiPen. 
Logged
Sean Riley, TSGT
US Army 1987 to 1994, WIARNG 1994 to 2008
DoD Firefighter Paramedic 2000 to Present
DakRadz
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 1,351

« Reply #23 on: August 25, 2016, 09:19:43 PM »

The other option people have, with allergies, is to obtain a vial of Epinephrine 1:1000 and a needle and syringe, draw it up and stick yourself. My department does this as a cheap alternative to the EpiPen.
In many instances, there is a provision covering the specific use of EpiPens and similar devices, which does not cover this route.
Whether a law, policy, or protocol- EMTs have never been allowed to draw up epi where I've worked, but they could do devices.



Also consider that the suffocating patient probably won't have the mind or dexterity to draw up the med. And if they can, why epi? It is an emergency med. Probably better served with benadryl and driving to urgent care. Works great from the health professional view, but looks way different from the patient view.

Not trying to browbeat you- if it seemed that way I apologize.

1st Lt Raduenz

Logged
sarmed1
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 898

« Reply #24 on: August 25, 2016, 09:20:37 PM »

The other option people have, with allergies, is to obtain a vial of Epinephrine 1:1000 and a needle and syringe, draw it up and stick yourself. My department does this as a cheap alternative to the EpiPen.

There are kit out there I have seen similar to this, the epi pen is just "easier" for most people I would gather.

The other cost tie in relevance I see is: what if you need to pick one up for a cadet after an exposure that they used theirs, or get prescribed one upon discharge in the case of an unknown allergy hospitalization during at a week long type activity?  It might be good to be know that they arent $50, and you can discuss with mom and dad or the hospital about getting the generic brand ok'd for substitution, searching for a coupon etc etc....

mk
Logged
Mark Kleibscheidel
TSgt USAFR
sarmed1
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 898

« Reply #25 on: August 25, 2016, 10:06:17 PM »

I would also say a more appropriate briefing/topic would be about causes & recognition of severe allergic reactions and when to use/assist in the use of epi pens in such an emergency prior to EMS arrival.  Honestly, I would rather have someone not know how expensive it is to replace,  in fear that cost info may cloud their judgement on when to or not to use it in fear that they dont want to "waste it" if they arent sure if someone really needs it or not. 

It is also not outside the realm of possibility that little johnny doesnt really know how to use it (or isnt going to be able to be rational enough to use it) in a real life situation and someone semi-responsible may need to step in.  There are plenty of people out there that I encounter that have been prescribed one, due to a one time incident, but have never had to use it.  My medical guy advice would be that if you have people in your unit or activity that you know have epi pens, you make sure that you are at least familiar with the kind they carry.  (also there are other types of auto injectors/pens out there for other conditions that may be important to know about)

mk
Logged
Mark Kleibscheidel
TSgt USAFR
RNOfficer
Seasoned Member

Posts: 232

« Reply #26 on: September 08, 2016, 09:26:17 PM »

http://www.kevinmd.com/blog/2016/09/epipen-expensive-4-options.html
Logged
grunt82abn
Forum Regular

Posts: 185

« Reply #27 on: September 10, 2016, 09:25:15 PM »

http://www.kevinmd.com/blog/2016/09/epipen-expensive-4-options.html

You shouldn't be putting this out there!!! Condoning the use of an expired medication, suggesting to hold on awhile, or suggesting your child might not need one is setting someone up for liability, especially when it comes to pediatrics (i.e. Cadets). I know you mean well, but information put out from a non-reliable source is setting someone up for failure.
Logged
Sean Riley, TSGT
US Army 1987 to 1994, WIARNG 1994 to 2008
DoD Firefighter Paramedic 2000 to Present
grunt82abn
Forum Regular

Posts: 185

« Reply #28 on: September 10, 2016, 09:37:31 PM »

The other option people have, with allergies, is to obtain a vial of Epinephrine 1:1000 and a needle and syringe, draw it up and stick yourself. My department does this as a cheap alternative to the EpiPen.
In many instances, there is a provision covering the specific use of EpiPens and similar devices, which does not cover this route.
Whether a law, policy, or protocol- EMTs have never been allowed to draw up epi where I've worked, but they could do devices.



Also consider that the suffocating patient probably won't have the mind or dexterity to draw up the med. And if they can, why epi? It is an emergency med. Probably better served with benadryl and driving to urgent care. Works great from the health professional view, but looks way different from the patient view.

Not trying to browbeat you- if it seemed that way I apologize.

1st Lt Raduenz

No need to apologize! Just giving a cheap option. There used to be kits, set up much like Glucagon kits used today, that were issued in the military. They were super cheap, easy to use, and were allowed at the basic level, and self aid. Instead of an auto injector, it was a pre-filled syringe, ready to use.

Benadryl is good, but I have had cases where it wasn't enough, or quick enough to contain sudden onset anaphylaxis, and created some hairy situations when our squad arrived on scene.
Logged
Sean Riley, TSGT
US Army 1987 to 1994, WIARNG 1994 to 2008
DoD Firefighter Paramedic 2000 to Present
SarDragon
Global Moderator

Posts: 9,918
Unit: NAVAIRPAC

« Reply #29 on: September 11, 2016, 12:51:33 AM »

No need to apologize! Just giving a cheap option. There used to be kits, set up much like Glucagon kits used today, that were issued in the military. They were super cheap, easy to use, and were allowed at the basic level, and self aid. Instead of an auto injector, it was a pre-filled syringe, ready to use.

Benadryl is good, but I have had cases where it wasn't enough, or quick enough to contain sudden onset anaphylaxis, and created some hairy situations when our squad arrived on scene.

Ah, yes, the atropine syrette. I remember those well. They were actually replaced by auto-injectors some time in the '80s. Currently called the MARK I. NERVE AGENT ANTIDOTE KIT (NAAK).
Logged
Dave Bowles
Maj, CAP
AT1, USN Retired
Mitchell Award (unnumbered)
C/WO, CAP, Ret
sarmed1
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 898

« Reply #30 on: September 15, 2016, 09:05:41 AM »

No need to apologize! Just giving a cheap option. There used to be kits, set up much like Glucagon kits used today, that were issued in the military. They were super cheap, easy to use, and were allowed at the basic level, and self aid. Instead of an auto injector, it was a pre-filled syringe, ready to use.

Benadryl is good, but I have had cases where it wasn't enough, or quick enough to contain sudden onset anaphylaxis, and created some hairy situations when our squad arrived on scene.

Ah, yes, the atropine syrette. I remember those well. They were actually replaced by auto-injectors some time in the '80s. Currently called the MARK I. NERVE AGENT ANTIDOTE KIT (NAAK).

I think he was referring to the actual  epi kits the military distributed.  It was in a small like 2x4 plastic box had prefilled epi syringe with needle attached, alcohol prep and 2 25mg benadrly tablets.

mk
Logged
Mark Kleibscheidel
TSgt USAFR
Pages: 1 [2]  All Print 
CAP Talk  |  Operations  |  Safety  |  Topic: Epipen
 


Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP SMF 2.0.13 | SMF © 2016, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Page created in 0.398 seconds with 20 queries.