CDI/Chaplain appt.... Where to start

Started by Abby.L, August 25, 2016, 02:16:43 AM

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Abby.L

Hello,
A SM just joined my squadron, and was interested in becoming a CAP Chaplain, or CDI. He has 7 years of full time pastoral experience, so qualifies for the educational waiver required to be a CAP chaplain. How would I go about writing and taking the waiver up my CoC? He had initially been turned down, but I do not believe a proper waiver had been written up at the time, and he was also in the beginning stages of joining at the time. Should the initial decision be upheld, he would also be satisfied as a CDI, though both he and I have had issues locating quizzes, tests, etc, that he needs(Even the OPSEC course seems to have disappeared...). He completed level one this past week, and, as I understand it, that also means he completed EO, CPPT, OPSEC, and any of the other required courses(Sans BIC and TLC) for the 35A.... As this is my first big PD issue as PDO...Anyone mind helping me out? Thanks in advance!
Capt Abby R. Lockling
SSgt(Sep) USAF, 41ECS
Charlie flight, NBB 2013

arajca

There is no 'waiver' for Chaplain requirements. You and he should meet with your wing chaplain. He will be able to give you the necessary information on how to become a CAP Chaplain and/or CDI. Your new member will need to talk with the wing chaplain eventually.

Eclipse

Has his background check cleared?  Level 1 can be completed without it.

As PDO you should be able to confirm what he has, or has not completed in eservices via his records.

Also, who turned down his initial and why?

Ultimately the Wing Chaplain is going to be the decider here.

"That Others May Zoom"

Eclipse

Quote from: arajca on August 25, 2016, 02:32:52 AM
There is no 'waiver' for Chaplain requirements. You and he should meet with your wing chaplain. He will be able to give you the necessary information on how to become a CAP Chaplain and/or CDI. Your new member will need to talk with the wing chaplain eventually.

CAPR 265-1. Page 5:
https://www.capmembers.com/media/cms/R265_001_538BD6B239386.pdf
"(4) The Chief of the Chaplain Corps (CAP/HC) may grant a waiver to those who do not
meet the graduate study requirement providing they meet all other requirements and present
valid documentation of at least 5 years of full time ministry experience as a pastor within their
denomination. "


With that said, the odds of the HC granting a waiver to someone so new isn't likely.  You'd probably be
better off having them work as a CDI for a while, build a history, and then make the request. 

"That Others May Zoom"

SouthernCross

Per CAPR 265-1, Section 6, the waiver may only be granted by the Chief of Chaplains, providing the applicant meets all other requirements. There is no such thing as writing or submitting a waiver. The wing chaplain, being the primary gatekeeper, will review the documents submitted to him/her by the applicant (Form 35, copy of ordination certificate, documentation of completion of Level 1), minus the ecclesiastical endorsement and official transcripts which are sent directly to NHQ by the endorser and educational institutions, respectively. Keep in mind that the wing chaplain will conduct an interview with the applicant, if satisfied submit his application package to the region chaplain for review, who in turn will transmit it to NHQ for final approval and eventual appointment

The requirements for applying for a CDI position are quite simpler: completion of Level 1, submit Form 35A, completion of TLC (basic) and Basic Instructor Course, plus a letter of recommendation from a non-CAP member of his local community.


Abby.L

Quote from: Eclipse on August 25, 2016, 02:49:37 AM
Has his background check cleared?  Level 1 can be completed without it.

As PDO you should be able to confirm what he has, or has not completed in eservices via his records.

Also, who turned down his initial and why?

Ultimately the Wing Chaplain is going to be the decider here.

He has completed level I(Just waiting on Sq/CC to approve) and EO/CPPT, though I was under the impression that Level I completion included all that stuff, so I'm not sure. We're still unable to find the OPSEC, though the Intro to safety course is no longer required, thankfully. So hopefully that can get cleared up.

I believe it was the wing chaplain who turned it down, but I was out of the loop at the time and am unable to confirm that. Though, I kinda like Eclipse's idea of him hanging out as a CDI for a bit, then applying for the waiver. Either way though, I just want to get this SM where he wants to be.  :angel:
Capt Abby R. Lockling
SSgt(Sep) USAF, 41ECS
Charlie flight, NBB 2013

Eclipse

Members don't actually have to complete OPSEC, which again makes gives one pause, and
non-mission pilots can fly and even fly o-rides without it, or Level 1 (chew on that a bit).

As a Chaplain he'd need it, but not as a CDI.

Oddly, all the links to it redirect to eServices, and it doesn't appear to be in the LMS.
https://www.capmembers.com/emergency_services/operations_support/operational-security-opsec/

All my new members in the last year, cadet and senior, have completed it, but I didn't note
where it pops up, unless it's something that happens the first time you access eservices or OPS Quals.

"That Others May Zoom"

MSG Mac

Quote from: Eclipse on August 25, 2016, 03:37:20 AM
Members don't actually have to complete OPSEC, which again makes gives one pause, and
non-mission pilots can fly and even fly o-rides without it, or Level 1 (chew on that a bit).

As a Chaplain he'd need it, but not as a CDI.

Oddly, all the links to it redirect to eServices, and it doesn't appear to be in the LMS.
https://www.capmembers.com/emergency_services/operations_support/operational-security-opsec/

All my new members in the last year, cadet and senior, have completed it, but I didn't note
where it pops up, unless it's something that happens the first time you access eservices or OPS Quals.

OPSEC is conducted at your first log in to E-Services.
Michael P. McEleney
Lt Col CAP
MSG USA (Retired)
50 Year Member

ßτε

Since Level I is required for appointment as Chaplain, the earlier request would have been denied.
Once the Level I is approved, contact the Wing Chaplain for help in requesting the waiver.

Chappie

#9
Quote from: Eclipse on August 25, 2016, 02:52:30 AM
Quote from: arajca on August 25, 2016, 02:32:52 AM
There is no 'waiver' for Chaplain requirements. You and he should meet with your wing chaplain. He will be able to give you the necessary information on how to become a CAP Chaplain and/or CDI. Your new member will need to talk with the wing chaplain eventually.

CAPR 265-1. Page 5:
https://www.capmembers.com/media/cms/R265_001_538BD6B239386.pdf
"(4) The Chief of the Chaplain Corps (CAP/HC) may grant a waiver to those who do not
meet the graduate study requirement providing they meet all other requirements and present
valid documentation of at least 5 years of full time ministry experience as a pastor within their
denomination. "


With that said, the odds of the HC granting a waiver to someone so new isn't likely.  You'd probably be
better off having them work as a CDI for a while, build a history, and then make the request.

Not so....provided the documentation is in order, a waiver can be granted.   Happens all the time (assisted several "waivered" chaplains in receiving an appointment when I was a Wing and Region Chaplain ... and I am among their ranks :) ).

Disclaimer:  Not to be confused with the other user that goes by "Chappy"   :)

Chappie

Quote from: SouthernCross on August 25, 2016, 03:11:32 AM
Per CAPR 265-1, Section 6, the waiver may only be granted by the Chief of Chaplains, providing the applicant meets all other requirements. There is no such thing as writing or submitting a waiver. The wing chaplain, being the primary gatekeeper, will review the documents submitted to him/her by the applicant (Form 35, copy of ordination certificate, documentation of completion of Level 1), minus the ecclesiastical endorsement and official transcripts which are sent directly to NHQ by the endorser and educational institutions, respectively. Keep in mind that the wing chaplain will conduct an interview with the applicant, if satisfied submit his application package to the region chaplain for review, who in turn will transmit it to NHQ for final approval and eventual appointment

The requirements for applying for a CDI position are quite simpler: completion of Level 1, submit Form 35A, completion of TLC (basic) and Basic Instructor Course, plus a letter of recommendation from a non-CAP member of his local community.

^^^  What he said.
Disclaimer:  Not to be confused with the other user that goes by "Chappy"   :)

Chappie

Quote from: Levi Lockling on August 25, 2016, 03:19:18 AM
Quote from: Eclipse on August 25, 2016, 02:49:37 AM
Has his background check cleared?  Level 1 can be completed without it.

As PDO you should be able to confirm what he has, or has not completed in eservices via his records.

Also, who turned down his initial and why?

Ultimately the Wing Chaplain is going to be the decider here.

He has completed level I(Just waiting on Sq/CC to approve) and EO/CPPT, though I was under the impression that Level I completion included all that stuff, so I'm not sure. We're still unable to find the OPSEC, though the Intro to safety course is no longer required, thankfully. So hopefully that can get cleared up.

I believe it was the wing chaplain who turned it down, but I was out of the loop at the time and am unable to confirm that. Though, I kinda like Eclipse's idea of him hanging out as a CDI for a bit, then applying for the waiver. Either way though, I just want to get this SM where he wants to be.  :angel:

The only reasonable cause for the Wing Chaplain to deny the request is if the Bachelor's degree was not from an accredited institution.
Disclaimer:  Not to be confused with the other user that goes by "Chappy"   :)

Abby.L

As you have some experience, what could be a reason the chaplain has denied his appointment, Chappie? He doesn't actually have a bachelor's degree, but he has 7 years(5 minimum for waiver) of full time pastoral experience. Could it just have been the timing? The SM insists that the wing Chaplain will hold his ground on his decision, even if said SM serves as CDI for some time, or whatever. How would I be able to go about this situation? AZ wing, if that helps you at all.
Capt Abby R. Lockling
SSgt(Sep) USAF, 41ECS
Charlie flight, NBB 2013

Eclipse

This is a command-chain issue.

If the Commander properly appointed him, and the Wing Chaplain denies the appointment, there's no other recourse then
Commanders speaking to Commanders, assuming it's worth the effort.

As characterized here, you have someone who does not meet the educational requirements and who has been in CAP 15 minutes
asking for a waiver for something which is fairly sacrosanct and held closely to the vest by NHQ because of the ability to
augment the military.

Regardless of what may or may not happen a year from now, it's reasonable no waiver was granted.

"That Others May Zoom"

Fubar

Quote from: Levi Lockling on September 02, 2016, 07:05:35 PMeven if said SM serves as CDI for some time, or whatever.

Viewing CDI as a stepping stone (or predatory step) to chaplain highlights the enormous issues we have with the CDI program.

Chappie

Quote from: Levi Lockling on September 02, 2016, 07:05:35 PM
As you have some experience, what could be a reason the chaplain has denied his appointment, Chappie? He doesn't actually have a bachelor's degree, but he has 7 years(5 minimum for waiver) of full time pastoral experience. Could it just have been the timing? The SM insists that the wing Chaplain will hold his ground on his decision, even if said SM serves as CDI for some time, or whatever. How would I be able to go about this situation? AZ wing, if that helps you at all.

The waiver could have been requested and possibly granted for possessing an accredited Bachelors Degree and a minimum of 5 years pastoral experience.   Since the applicant does not have a degree, I would have thanked the applicant and suggested he apply to be a CDI.  According to the CAPR 265-1, he does not meet
the criteria for a waivered appointment.  I support the correct decision of the AZWG HC.   Even if the AZWG may have submitted it to the SER HC for review, the waiver request would go nowhere. 
Disclaimer:  Not to be confused with the other user that goes by "Chappy"   :)

Chappie

Quote from: Eclipse on September 02, 2016, 07:10:45 PM
This is a command-chain issue.

If the Commander properly appointed him, and the Wing Chaplain denies the appointment, there's no other recourse then
Commanders speaking to Commanders, assuming it's worth the effort.

As characterized here, you have someone who does not meet the educational requirements and who has been in CAP 15 minutes
asking for a waiver for something which is fairly sacrosanct and held closely to the vest by NHQ because of the ability to
augment the military.

Regardless of what may or may not happen a year from now, it's reasonable no waiver was granted.

Commanders do not appoint Chaplain Corps personnel...that is done by the Chief of the Chaplains.   The commander does need to approve the application...and once the appointment is granted makes the staff assignment (Form 2 so it shows up in eServices).    In this scenario, the applicant does not meet the minimum qualifications for an appointment -- waivered or not.
Disclaimer:  Not to be confused with the other user that goes by "Chappy"   :)

Chappie

Quote from: Fubar on September 03, 2016, 07:05:28 AM
Quote from: Levi Lockling on September 02, 2016, 07:05:35 PMeven if said SM serves as CDI for some time, or whatever.

Viewing CDI as a stepping stone (or predatory step) to chaplain highlights the enormous issues we have with the CDI program.

There has been a huge paradigm shift in recent years regarding this.  The 225 Specialty Track has been developed and published for CDIs this past year.  Wing Chaplains in interviewing prospective CDIs are providing clearer directions regarding the role and responsibilities of the CDI so that the "chaplain wannabe" perspective is dealt with on the front end.   There are a few CDIs who are religious leaders who may not meet the criteria of a chaplain appointment in with the academic requirements or ecclesiastical endorsement.  I have not seen that as a "enormous " issue in the past few years.   The majority of CDIs who I have served with in the CAWG and PCR are committed to serving CAP in that specific role. 
Disclaimer:  Not to be confused with the other user that goes by "Chappy"   :)

Fubar

Quote from: Chappie on September 03, 2016, 09:26:03 PMI have not seen that as a "enormous " issue in the past few years.

I have (hence my statement). YMMV.

Chappie

Quote from: Fubar on September 03, 2016, 09:42:02 PM
Quote from: Chappie on September 03, 2016, 09:26:03 PMI have not seen that as a "enormous " issue in the past few years.

I have (hence my statement). YMMV.

While there may be an isolated case, this is not an across the board issue within the Chaplain Corps.  As we can attest, not every wing and region is the same.  There are interesting situations that occur which are local in nature and do not reflect the overall program.   If there is an issue, by all means make the wing chaplain aware of it.  The supervisory chaplain should provide counsel and guidance when something occurs that is not within the operating procedures/policies of the Chaplain Corps.
Disclaimer:  Not to be confused with the other user that goes by "Chappy"   :)