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CAP Talk  |  Operations  |  Tools of the trade  |  Topic: This organization is buried in paper...
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Author Topic: This organization is buried in paper...  (Read 2971 times)
Майор Хаткевич
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Posts: 6,075
Unit: GLR-IL-049

« Reply #20 on: August 17, 2016, 05:21:05 PM »

https://www.reddit.com/r/Entrepreneur/comments/41iq05/how_we_lost_over_6000_eur_by_not_understanding/
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Spaceman3750
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Posts: 2,609

« Reply #21 on: August 17, 2016, 05:31:41 PM »

Much better to have the .gov accounts "own" them and then share out to Gmail when necessary.

We have a "files" account on our .org that owns our top level folders, but there is no way to cascade ownership changes down to subordinate folders, so there are a bunch of inconsistent permissions. Any way to fix without spending 10 hours manually re-doing everything?
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The moment any commander or staff member considers themselves a gatekeeper, instead of a facilitator, they have failed at their job.
I can't fix all of CAP's problems, but I can lead from the bottom by building my squadron as a center of excellence to serve as an example of what every unit can be.
Eclipse
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Posts: 27,996

« Reply #22 on: August 17, 2016, 05:38:08 PM »

A painful example of running with scissors to be sure.  Even the poster indicates it wasn't Google's fault.

I've had similar "fun" in an Windows server environment yanking the wrong right attribute or deleting the
wrong user, etc.

Users doing dumb things with files used to be a bigger problem then it is today, about a year or so ago Google rolled out
the ability for admins to recover and restore files at the admin level, something that didn't exist before.

You also have to be careful of local sync utilities - I stopped using them a couple of years ago when ransomware got prevalent.
The problem being that if your local machine gets infected, the infection can propagate via the sync utilities.  One saving grace is that
generally the file syncs overwhelm even generous internet pipes and when users start calling about "why is the internet so slow, you
can pull the wire before things get too bad.

Both GDrive and Dropbox have iterative file restores, though neither particularly friendly for masses of files.
It can infect .pdfs, but not Google's native sheets, slides, and docs, which is why I live in those instead of Office and
encourage my clients to do so as well (though that's not always an option).

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"Effort" does not equal "results".
The contents of this post are Copyright © 2017 by eclipse. All rights are reserved. Specific permission is given to quote this post here on CAP-Talk only.

Spaceman3750
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 2,609

« Reply #23 on: August 17, 2016, 06:35:20 PM »

I've had similar "fun" in an Windows server environment yanking the wrong right attribute or deleting the
wrong user, etc.

Once you figure it out in Windows it's easy, set what you need and check the appropriate boxes to either force re-inherit to subordinate folders, break inheritance from above (which you really shouldn't do unless you have a good reason, although if you force re-inherit subordinate folders from above it gets undone anyways), or click the button to force re-inherit the owner to subordinate folders, as appropriate.

Google, no such luck.
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The moment any commander or staff member considers themselves a gatekeeper, instead of a facilitator, they have failed at their job.
I can't fix all of CAP's problems, but I can lead from the bottom by building my squadron as a center of excellence to serve as an example of what every unit can be.
JeffDG
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Posts: 3,157

« Reply #24 on: August 17, 2016, 07:29:31 PM »

One issue to be careful of when using Docs is file ownership.  Files should preferably be "owned" by a few people as possible, and those accounts should be corporation controlled whenever possible.

As it stands today, when I move on from my current posting as CC (whether voluntarily or voted off the island), Wing can take ownership of the files and transfer them to the new CC, etc., from the admin side with little drama, including recovering things should I go rogue.

If you allow members with non-CAP emails to "own" the files, they can disappear without warning with no
way to recover them - we had that issue a year or so ago with our master ES status board that was owned
by a personal Gmail and a user cleaned up some files and inadvertently deleted it.

Much better to have the .gov accounts "own" them and then share out to Gmail when necessary.
All of our Google Drive accounts are "corporate owned", and are .gov.
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Eclipse
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Posts: 27,996

« Reply #25 on: August 18, 2016, 10:17:44 PM »

Back on track, more fun.

Cadet parents with hand-written notes "Cadet Johnny ran the mile in 7:45", or better ">I< ran the mile in 7:45."

Seriously?

I have no issue with a teacher or coach occasionally helping a cadet get PT done when they aren't able to do it with
unit staff,  send me an email from your school account or letterhead.

But cadets, nor their parents, do not "self-certify" their PT.

I had actually found this early-on after the leadership transition, the vast majority occurred with ex-cadets,
so not much of a recent issue, but when I brought it up in a unit meeting, there were a couple of
"Oh, yeah, I guess we shouldn't do that" looks.
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"Effort" does not equal "results".
The contents of this post are Copyright © 2017 by eclipse. All rights are reserved. Specific permission is given to quote this post here on CAP-Talk only.

JC004
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Posts: 4,515

« Reply #26 on: August 20, 2016, 06:30:56 PM »

...
Social Security numbers & cards, birth certificates, immigration documents, cashed checks (?), fingerprint cards,
credit card receipts, driver's licenses and abstracts, pilots licenses and records, bank deposit slips (for accounts closed by WBP) on and on.
...

Why do people even keep most of this?  I have LONG destroyed most of these things, looooong before we started digitizing the majority of a file.  We have no use for Social Security Cards or birth certificates.  Fingerprint cards, we can't do anything with copies of those...  I removed Social Security Numbers as a matter of practice, back when I was a cadet admin assisting the SMs in organizing the files...  Our participation letters and all had the SSNs removed as well.
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foo
Forum Regular

Posts: 143

« Reply #27 on: August 20, 2016, 07:17:54 PM »

Back on track, more fun.

Cadet parents with hand-written notes "Cadet Johnny ran the mile in 7:45", or better ">I< ran the mile in 7:45."

Seriously?

I have no issue with a teacher or coach occasionally helping a cadet get PT done when they aren't able to do it with
unit staff
,  send me an email from your school account or letterhead.
But cadets, nor their parents, do not "self-certify" their PT.

I had actually found this early-on after the leadership transition, the vast majority occurred with ex-cadets,
so not much of a recent issue, but when I brought it up in a unit meeting, there were a couple of
"Oh, yeah, I guess we shouldn't do that" looks.



I have no issue with it, either, as long as the reason for it is that the mile run couldn't be done during CPFT due to a weather-related safety concern.

Quote from: CAPP 52-18
Test Period. Test administrators will manage the testing process expeditiously so that each cadet completes the CPFT in about one hour. Cadets must do all four events in the same test period, unless the mile run event is cancelled due to inclement weather.

[...]

Bad Weather Run Banking. The CPFT is normally conducted in a one-hour block consisting of all four events. In the event that a commander determines that inclement weather or other hazards makes the Mile Run event unsafe, cadets may “carry-forward” their last recorded CPFT Mile Run time provided it is no more than four months old.

Commanders must make a separate ORM-based safety decision for each scheduled CPFT. Inclement weather considerations include: extreme heat or cold, hazards such as snow or ice on the running surface, lightning, or heavy precipitation.

If a unit is unable to conduct the Mile Run event and a cadet’s last “banked” run time has either expired or is not fast enough to “pass” the current test, cadets may also submit a mile run time certified by an unrelated, independent person. Examples of acceptable persons include a gym teacher, health club official, or an unrelated senior member.

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Eclipse
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Posts: 27,996

« Reply #28 on: August 20, 2016, 08:44:37 PM »

Why do people even keep most of this?

"we might need it someday..."

Well, it's here if you do...



I think much some of it is lack of program knowledge / specific guidance, coupled with a revolving
door of admin and personnel people doing a job most people don't want to deal with in the squadron.
There's also a lack of pressing the issue from higher HQ, and in far too many cases a hoarder mentality.

Honestly, while it's not an issue with everyone, I think that the latter is a legit issue
with many people in CAP, especially on the shoe-string budgets many units run on.

Those of "a certain age" will remember that one of the sacred cows were the "pilot files".  It seemed
like units were always in trouble with either file plans or pilot files, so much so that some
units saw it as a point of "pride", or at least "less hassle" to not have pilots, since "no pilots = no pilot records".

(This in the same way a Unit CC I was inspecting once, who did not have a notebook PC or printer
to be able to get unit business done on meeting nights, proudly explained that "If we don't have any
equipment, we don't have to do inventories...")


Anyway, on my first go-round as CC, I said, "What, exactly, is supposed to be in there?" My DO looked into it, and as usual,
it wasn't what we thought, or what the inspectors were holding people to, it was basically two pieces of paper.
We dumped everything else, and never heard about it again.  Shortly thereafter, of course, WMIRS and OPS Quals
made "pilot files" obsolete and now they aren't even a thing.

I approach everything in CAP by first reading the governing regulation and getting the definition of the requirement.
"No reg = no requirement".  "No requirement = no going to get done".  We're too short handed and
have too little contact time to be wasting on shuffling paper, or doing things "because I heard".
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"Effort" does not equal "results".
The contents of this post are Copyright © 2017 by eclipse. All rights are reserved. Specific permission is given to quote this post here on CAP-Talk only.

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CAP Talk  |  Operations  |  Tools of the trade  |  Topic: This organization is buried in paper...
 


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