Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?
November 24, 2017, 02:11:28 PM
Home Help Login Register
News:

CAP Talk  |  Operations  |  Tools of the trade  |  Topic: Garmin Virb Camera Mounts
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
Pages: 1 2 3 4 [All] Print
Author Topic: Garmin Virb Camera Mounts  (Read 5721 times)
etodd
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 853

« on: August 04, 2016, 10:20:42 PM »

Has anyone started receiving any of the 'new' Garmin Virb Camera Airplane Mounts. We've (our area) been out of the vertical photography business for quite awhile now and no word is seen coming down the line for a new mount to get us back in training mode for mission readiness.

Other Wings have the new mounts yet?
Logged
MS - MO - AP - MP
SarDragon
Global Moderator

Posts: 10,061
Unit: NAVAIRPAC

« Reply #1 on: August 05, 2016, 02:05:44 AM »

Has anyone started receiving any of the 'new' Garmin Virb Camera Airplane Mounts. We've (our area) been out of the vertical photography business for quite awhile now and no word is seen coming down the line for a new mount to get us back in training mode for mission readiness.

Other Wings have the new mounts yet?

We just had an AP exercise last weekend, and the Virbs came up in conversation. None of the movers and shakers here had seen any of the new mounts yet. We talked about them, and how they fit into the planes. Seems like a good design.
Logged
Dave Bowles
Maj, CAP
AT1, USN Retired
Mitchell Award (unnumbered)
C/WO, CAP, Ret
JeffDG
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 3,157

« Reply #2 on: August 05, 2016, 08:20:57 AM »

I would expect news on this Wednesday at the national Operations Conference.
Logged
NorCal
Newbie

Posts: 1
Unit: PCR-CA-034

« Reply #3 on: September 09, 2016, 04:23:09 PM »

We have had strut mount Garmin Virb Cameras in CAWG for a while now.  I think it is just another tool for the toolbox.  They are much more efficient at doing lower resolution strip pictures than the traditional AP, and the training curve is much easier.  It only requires two people (MO and MP) to run a mission as apposed to having to find the elusive AP. 
Logged
etodd
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 853

« Reply #4 on: September 09, 2016, 05:18:58 PM »

We have had strut mount Garmin Virb Cameras in CAWG for a while now.


I have been begging to use any of the multiple strut type mounts I have used for years with my GoPros. I could easily adapt the Garmin to it .... but word coming down from above has forbidden us from using strut mounts. :(

Has CAWG received special permission from Hdq for your mounts ... or just doing it anyway? LOL
Logged
MS - MO - AP - MP
JeffDG
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 3,157

« Reply #5 on: September 09, 2016, 06:00:33 PM »

The "official" mount option was discussed at the national conference.

It's an inspection-plate replacement that will let us attach the camera out on the wingtip, but will be bolted in place.  Theyre working on getting mounts distributed to the Wings.
Logged
SarDragon
Global Moderator

Posts: 10,061
Unit: NAVAIRPAC

« Reply #6 on: September 09, 2016, 08:03:47 PM »

The CAWG strut mount was blessed from above, pending development of the "official" mount.
Logged
Dave Bowles
Maj, CAP
AT1, USN Retired
Mitchell Award (unnumbered)
C/WO, CAP, Ret
etodd
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 853

« Reply #7 on: September 09, 2016, 10:19:26 PM »

The "official" mount option was discussed at the national conference.

It's an inspection-plate replacement that will let us attach the camera out on the wingtip, but will be bolted in place.  Theyre working on getting mounts distributed to the Wings.

Does the new mount use something 'standard' like a RAM Mount ball, so that it can easily be changed in the future when the Virb goes away and a new camera takes its place? Or is it strictly custom for the Virb?
Logged
MS - MO - AP - MP
SarDragon
Global Moderator

Posts: 10,061
Unit: NAVAIRPAC

« Reply #8 on: September 09, 2016, 11:08:42 PM »

Here's a picture source:

http://www.capnhq.gov/news/Documents/Garmin_Virb_Mount_Notice.pdf
Logged
Dave Bowles
Maj, CAP
AT1, USN Retired
Mitchell Award (unnumbered)
C/WO, CAP, Ret
etodd
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 853

« Reply #9 on: September 10, 2016, 09:35:11 AM »

Here's a picture source:

http://www.capnhq.gov/news/Documents/Garmin_Virb_Mount_Notice.pdf

Ah. So it 'does' use a GoPro mount. That will make it easily adaptable to configure two cameras on the plate. :)
Logged
MS - MO - AP - MP
etodd
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 853

« Reply #10 on: September 10, 2016, 09:40:41 AM »

Using this, one can then mount a GoPro right next to the Virb. Enabling live view from the GoPro for pilot's navigation while Virb is firing off photos. Perfect solution and increasing accuracy in results.

Logged
MS - MO - AP - MP
PHall
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 5,864

« Reply #11 on: September 10, 2016, 11:10:16 AM »

Using this, one can then mount a GoPro right next to the Virb. Enabling live view from the GoPro for pilot's navigation while Virb is firing off photos. Perfect solution and increasing accuracy in results.




But, is it approved for use on CAP aircraft by the FAA and CAP?
Logged
DakRadz
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 1,351

« Reply #12 on: September 10, 2016, 02:01:33 PM »

Perhaps I'm wrong, but it's better to have better capabilities and ask for approval, rather than have a limited mount which is quickly outdated. So, this mount apparently has good potential even when the Virb is dead and gone. And the ability to add extras (though they may not be official or useable yet).

But I'm not in the sky (yet!), so correct me if I'm wrong.

1st Lt Raduenz

Logged
Al Sayre
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 2,512
Unit: SER-MS-001

Mississippi Wing
« Reply #13 on: September 10, 2016, 03:41:44 PM »

If you make an unapproved modification to a certificated aircraft and something goes sideways,who do you think the hammer will fall on?
Logged
Lt Col Al Sayre
MS Wing Staff Dude
Admiral, Great Navy of the State of Nebraska
GRW #2787
PHall
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 5,864

« Reply #14 on: September 10, 2016, 03:46:27 PM »

If you make an unapproved modification to a certificated aircraft and something goes sideways,who do you think the hammer will fall on?

Not to mention the fact that the pilot who flys that airplane puts their licence at risk too.
You sure you wanna do that?
Logged
DakRadz
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 1,351

« Reply #15 on: September 10, 2016, 04:12:00 PM »

I didn't mean ask for forgiveness. I meant it seems to have great future potential, all of which can be followed through with the proper channels.

1st Lt Raduenz

Logged
PHall
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 5,864

« Reply #16 on: September 10, 2016, 06:29:49 PM »

With the FAA it is MUCH better to ask permission then to beg forgiveness.
Logged
etodd
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 853

« Reply #17 on: September 10, 2016, 09:18:08 PM »

Using this, one can then mount a GoPro right next to the Virb. Enabling live view from the GoPro for pilot's navigation while Virb is firing off photos. Perfect solution and increasing accuracy in results.




But, is it approved for use on CAP aircraft by the FAA and CAP?


Have to ask first ... and need the setup before asking. LOL

Once we have the actual CAP approved mounting plate installed (zzzzz) ..... then I'll mount all the gear to it and take lots of photos of the installation and write a detailed report as to how it can be used and how adding the second 'live view' camera will make vertical photography so much more accurate, effective and yes, even safer than some of the methods being tried and used when we first started using the Virb. Especially helpful when you need a 'one off' vertical photo where the subject needs to be perfectly centered in frame.  As it is now, its total guesswork with the Virb. Quite a few other uses as well.

As a side note, the actual GoPro mounts, cameras and fittings are much stronger than the more flimsy one the Vib 'snaps into'. So if the Virb has been approved, the GoPro 'should' be a no-brainer. But alas ... I do realize bureaucrats feel the need to add their input. Hence the months and years for approvals. ;)

Once Hdqs has all the info ... maybe someone will find the report on their desk and approve it.  LOL

(As another aside .... I have flown hundreds of hours of GoPro external mounts from suction to hard mounts ever since GoPros first arrived on the scene ... and have never had a problem. Non-CAP planes of course. Local FSDO folks don't see the big deal with a few ounces on the wing, under the wing, on fuselage, tail, etc.. A one gallon disparity in fuel from one wing to the other is many multiples of it. And the wind factor is negligible.)

.
Logged
MS - MO - AP - MP
Live2Learn
Seasoned Member

Posts: 467

« Reply #18 on: September 11, 2016, 08:05:31 PM »


I have flown hundreds of hours of GoPro external mounts from suction to hard mounts ever since GoPros first arrived on the scene ... and have never had a problem.


Reminds me of the guy who said he'd used baling wire on his supercharger for years and never had a problem ... that is, until he did.  Sorry, the logic of "I've never had a problem with..." doesn't hold a lot of water.
Logged
etodd
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 853

« Reply #19 on: September 11, 2016, 09:59:27 PM »


Reminds me of the guy who said he'd used baling wire on his supercharger for years and never had a problem ... that is, until he did.  Sorry, the logic of "I've never had a problem with..." doesn't hold a lot of water.

You mean like the 'approved by CAP' glue on Virb Mounts that were falling off planes?  ROTFL  Thanks for making my night. There are those who 'write' policy ... and then there are those in the field that actually get the job done. Reminds me of the old expression: "No inspection-ready unit has ever passed combat."

If it makes you feel better to think of me as 'that bailing wire guy' feel free to.

A pilot since 1976, a professional photographer since 1985 and aerial photography specifically since 2001. Its how I earn my living.

So when I joined CAP a year ago I thought I would be able to bring my experience, expertise and high quality gear to help with Missions. It was quite a downer at my first SAREX when I was told to stow away my nice bodies, mounts and $1800 lenses and told I would have to use the supplied consumer grade stuff because it was approved (code word for the consumer gear they could afford within the budget). Took me awhile to realize expectations were at a fixed level and I was not suppose to raise it. I was even told not to shoot RAW which is my normal setting, nor to use my laptop with LightRoom, etc. to really make the images pop.

Someone once told me that there was the 'real world' way of doing things, and then there was the 'CAP way'.  I've found that to be true. As an entrepreneur its hard to sit back sometimes and let the wheels of bureaucracy move at a snails pace ..... but I'm learning to accept it. I'm here for the long haul, but am fully understanding some of the retention issues that get mentioned.

.
Logged
MS - MO - AP - MP
Eclipse
Too Much Free Time Award
***
Posts: 27,996

« Reply #20 on: September 11, 2016, 10:09:50 PM »

There are those who 'write' policy ... and then there are those in the field that actually get the job done. Reminds me of the old expression: "No inspection-ready unit has ever passed combat."

Both equally nonsense.

I was even told not to shoot RAW which is my normal setting, nor to use my laptop with LightRoom, etc. to really make the images pop.


Relax Ansel.  The job isn't to make them "pop", the job is to make them accurate enough to decide if resources are necessary in the area and to assist with procuring funding in the area, etc.
« Last Edit: September 12, 2016, 12:31:53 AM by SarDragon » Logged

"Effort" does not equal "results".
The contents of this post are Copyright 2017 by eclipse. All rights are reserved. Specific permission is given to quote this post here on CAP-Talk only.

etodd
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 853

« Reply #21 on: September 11, 2016, 10:26:19 PM »




... the job is to make them accurate enough to decide if resources are necessary in the area and to assist with procuring funding in the area, etc.

But still doesn't mean there is a little disappointment there. Just perform to the accepted level ... and not exceed it. Just be a cog in the machine. Don't think, leave that to the folks higher up the chain.

Yep. Got it. Accept it and moving right along. Actually makes it much easier now that I know where levels of performance are. I'll just enjoy flying and 'snapping' a few photos and stop thinking 'innovation'. 

.
Logged
MS - MO - AP - MP
PHall
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 5,864

« Reply #22 on: September 11, 2016, 10:45:36 PM »

Our job is to provide the customer with what they requested. It's what they're expecting to work with.
Logged
etodd
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 853

« Reply #23 on: September 11, 2016, 10:53:34 PM »

Our job is to provide the customer with what they requested. It's what they're expecting to work with.

As the SAR business dwindles away ... innovation could increase the customer base and solidify the current ones with new product possibilities.

But again .... I think in terms of real world business. This bureaucratic CAP/Gov't world is new to me. Yes, I should stop thinking such heresy and just enjoy flying airplanes and taking photos. Let others worry about such stuff.  ;)

.
Logged
MS - MO - AP - MP
Luis R. Ramos
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 2,525

« Reply #24 on: September 11, 2016, 10:57:18 PM »

You want to innovate...

Be a provider within the program...

After a while become one of the leaders, then you can try innovation then...

 >:D
Logged

Squadron Administrative Officer
Squadron Communication Officer
Squadron Emergency Services Officer
etodd
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 853

« Reply #25 on: September 11, 2016, 11:10:07 PM »

You want to innovate...

Be a provider within the program...

After a while become one of the leaders, then you can try innovation then...

 >:D


Leaders often have to tow the line and speak the policy or be quiet.   :-X   Its one of the reason innovation in gov't is so difficult. I've always enjoyed working the fringes where I have the freedom to speak my mind and keep pushing ideas.

.
« Last Edit: September 11, 2016, 11:15:19 PM by etodd » Logged
MS - MO - AP - MP
Luis R. Ramos
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 2,525

« Reply #26 on: September 12, 2016, 04:35:54 AM »

Ahh! But leaders have more freeway in introducing innovations to the membership they preside over. At my end, I cannot do any changes which is what you were trying to do. So at your end, you cannot introduce any changes in policy regarding using the mounts.

If you want that to happen, you will be more successful when and if you become a Wing or Region King than now.
« Last Edit: September 12, 2016, 10:30:35 AM by Luis R. Ramos » Logged

Squadron Administrative Officer
Squadron Communication Officer
Squadron Emergency Services Officer
arajca
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 4,161

« Reply #27 on: September 12, 2016, 10:13:36 AM »




... the job is to make them accurate enough to decide if resources are necessary in the area and to assist with procuring funding in the area, etc.

But still doesn't mean there is a little disappointment there. Just perform to the accepted level ... and not exceed it. Just be a cog in the machine. Don't think, leave that to the folks higher up the chain.

Yep. Got it. Accept it and moving right along. Actually makes it much easier now that I know where levels of performance are. I'll just enjoy flying and 'snapping' a few photos and stop thinking 'innovation'. 

.
One of the problems with someone going way above what is expected is it sets a new standard that not everyone can meet. What happens if the customer gets used to your pictures then gets a batch of the standard pictures? Can you provide training to everyone who takes/processes the pictures? Will those who are not professional photographers retain the knowledge and skills to consistently provide the higher than standard pictures? BTDT (different subject).
Logged
etodd
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 853

« Reply #28 on: September 12, 2016, 10:39:01 AM »


One of the problems with someone going way above what is expected is it sets a new standard that not everyone can meet. What happens if the customer gets used to your pictures then gets a batch of the standard pictures? Can you provide training to everyone who takes/processes the pictures? Will those who are not professional photographers retain the knowledge and skills to consistently provide the higher than standard pictures? BTDT (different subject).


A valid point. But is something Hdqs should ponder if aerial photography for FEMA and others of disasters and more is going to be an increasing part of the CAP purpose for being, as SAR dwindles away. If we want to keep those airplanes it seems to me we need to be finding ever increasing capabilities within ourselves and then go sell them to our customers. Waiting for customers to ask if we can do something and then trying to ramp up to the job is a little backwards, IMHO.

The Syracuse Mission is a unique one that will maybe last another 5 years, if that. But what can we learn from it? How can those skills and operations be applied to another type of mission we haven't done before that we could market to other agencies? Things to ponder.

The CAP Aerospace and Cadet programs can still continue for many years even if the airplanes disappear.

Maybe Hdqs 'does' have a 20 year plan of innovation and forward thinking tech ideas of what they think CAP will be providing to clients 20 years from now. If so, the Recruiting folks should be given the plans. It would help generate excitement of our future.

.
« Last Edit: September 12, 2016, 10:42:09 AM by etodd » Logged
MS - MO - AP - MP
Eclipse
Too Much Free Time Award
***
Posts: 27,996

« Reply #29 on: September 12, 2016, 11:19:25 AM »

as SAR dwindles away.

"SAR" isn't "dwindling away"
.

Why do your posts have this hanging period?
Logged

"Effort" does not equal "results".
The contents of this post are Copyright 2017 by eclipse. All rights are reserved. Specific permission is given to quote this post here on CAP-Talk only.

etodd
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 853

« Reply #30 on: September 12, 2016, 11:53:43 AM »

"SAR" isn't "dwindling away"

Isn't it fewer each year? Isn't technology making it easier and quicker to find without CAP with the newer ELTs and folks with PLBs? More and more local agencies in many places with their own helicopters and more to search before CAP ever gets called? Some locations more than others so it'll be a geographic thing.

At whatever level of rate of change, I don't think SAR in 10-20 years will be often enough to justify this large fleet of airplanes.  I think Homeland Security, FEMA and others will by far be our largest customer base by then, with very few calls from AFRCC.

Quote
Why do your posts have this hanging period?

Not sure. Haven't seen them on all posts. Lets look and see if this one has it. You can keep a talley on which posts have it if it interest you that much.  ;)
Logged
MS - MO - AP - MP
Spaceman3750
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 2,609

« Reply #31 on: September 12, 2016, 03:59:42 PM »

"SAR" isn't "dwindling away"

Isn't it fewer each year? Isn't technology making it easier and quicker to find without CAP with the newer ELTs and folks with PLBs? More and more local agencies in many places with their own helicopters and more to search before CAP ever gets called? Some locations more than others so it'll be a geographic thing.

At whatever level of rate of change, I don't think SAR in 10-20 years will be often enough to justify this large fleet of airplanes.  I think Homeland Security, FEMA and others will by far be our largest customer base by then, with very few calls from AFRCC.

There are plenty of counties and states running searches every day of every year, plus aircraft still go missing. What we're in right now is a brave new world where the national-level mission of chasing false-alarm ELTs and wasting people's time in the middle of the night is dwindling (that being said, I got a non-distress find in the middle of the night on Labor Day weekend, so it's still there). That is why everyone is predicting doom.

This brave new world calls for two things:

1. Now that we have fewer false alarm ELTs, manpower and resources are more freed up to grow our support of FEMA, 1AF, and others on the national level.
2. Local, group, and wing ESOs should be working with the local/county/state agencies in their AOR to build relationships and learn how CAP can positively impact the incidents that these agencies manage. This is a very local thing, and may require tailoring how CAP does business in that area to the needs of the agencies involved. That's a lot of work, and is scary to a lot of members, who are used to a steady stream of ELTs from on-high to keep people busy.

Membership numbers not withstanding, from an organizational perspective we are more prepared now than we ever have been to make a significant impact in the lives of the taxpayers which support us. Through hard work and partnerships with not just national, but also state/local/county agencies, we can continue to grow our role in saving lives and preventing suffering in every county across the country. But someone has to be willing to make the first call and learn how to play in someone else's sandbox.

Like I said, brave new world.
Logged
The moment any commander or staff member considers themselves a gatekeeper, instead of a facilitator, they have failed at their job.
I can't fix all of CAP's problems, but I can lead from the bottom by building my squadron as a center of excellence to serve as an example of what every unit can be.
etodd
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 853

« Reply #32 on: September 12, 2016, 05:20:15 PM »



1. Now that we have fewer false alarm ELTs, manpower and resources are more freed up to grow our support of FEMA, 1AF, and others on the national level.


Yep. Exactly what I and others have discussed in other threads. CAP's response to Hurricane Katrina, flooding in the Carolinas, wildfires in the west, the Syracuse mission and so many others are starting to really redefine CAPs role on the national stage. Innovation on our side to see how many new ways we can serve those agencies will go a long way toward solidifying our future. As you say perfectly "Brave New World".

If you've ever been a member of a small country church ... when some young kid mentions something new ... the old deacons have a phrase: "We ain't never done it that way before and don't see any reason to change it now!"  Either the innovative folks take charge and grow the church ... or the church slowly dies.

Myself .... I'm ready for the Brave New World.  :)
Logged
MS - MO - AP - MP
Spaceman3750
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 2,609

« Reply #33 on: September 12, 2016, 05:22:09 PM »



1. Now that we have fewer false alarm ELTs, manpower and resources are more freed up to grow our support of FEMA, 1AF, and others on the national level.


Yep. Exactly what I and others have discussed in other threads. CAP's response to Hurricane Katrina, flooding in the Carolinas, wildfires in the west, the Syracuse mission and so many others are starting to really redefine CAPs role on the national stage. Innovation on our side to see how many new ways we can serve those agencies will go a long way toward solidifying our future. As you say perfectly "Brave New World".

If you've ever been a member of a small country church ... when some young kid mentions something new ... the old deacons have a phrase: "We ain't never done it that way before and don't see any reason to change it now!"  Either the innovative folks take charge and grow the church ... or the church slowly dies.

Myself .... I'm ready for the Brave New World.  :)

I'm glad you agree with me, but you should really take the rest of my post to heart as well, not just what reinforces your point.

SAR isn't dead, it's just different than what we're used to doing.
Logged
The moment any commander or staff member considers themselves a gatekeeper, instead of a facilitator, they have failed at their job.
I can't fix all of CAP's problems, but I can lead from the bottom by building my squadron as a center of excellence to serve as an example of what every unit can be.
etodd
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 853

« Reply #34 on: September 12, 2016, 05:35:46 PM »


I'm glad you agree with me, but you should really take the rest of my post to heart as well, not just what reinforces your point.

SAR isn't dead, it's just different than what we're used to doing.

I didn't say it was dead. I said it was dwindling. Which yes, also may be too strong a word. But I still maintain that SAR isn't the big future of CAP. As I've said before ... give it 20 years, maybe less, and we may be moved out of the AF and into Homeland Security. (never say never.) Interesting times lay ahead.
Logged
MS - MO - AP - MP
PHall
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 5,864

« Reply #35 on: September 12, 2016, 08:40:56 PM »


I'm glad you agree with me, but you should really take the rest of my post to heart as well, not just what reinforces your point.

SAR isn't dead, it's just different than what we're used to doing.

I didn't say it was dead. I said it was dwindling. Which yes, also may be too strong a word. But I still maintain that SAR isn't the big future of CAP. As I've said before ... give it 20 years, maybe less, and we may be moved out of the AF and into Homeland Security. (never say never.) Interesting times lay ahead.

So how do you know it's dwindling? You said before that you're new to CAP. So what base of experience are you basing your opinion on?
Logged
etodd
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 853

« Reply #36 on: September 12, 2016, 09:06:14 PM »


So how do you know it's dwindling? You said before that you're new to CAP. So what base of experience are you basing your opinion on?

Reading past threads here. Conjecture and experiences from other members who have been around much longer in my area. Seeing new technology of the 406 ELTs and plbs come out. Etc.

But can I quote specific numbers of actual SAR missions CAP has performed each year over the last 20 to show whether its increasing or sliding? No. CAP hdqs must keep those figures under wraps for obvious reasons.  If you have any links with those specifics, I'd be happy to read them.

I'm just not seeing much talk anywhere of how Squadron X flew twice the number of actual SAR missions this year than last.  And ground team numbers that don't seem like they are up there either(?)
Logged
MS - MO - AP - MP
Spaceman3750
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 2,609

« Reply #37 on: September 12, 2016, 09:55:41 PM »

You could cull the AFRCC annual reports to get a broad idea. I'll bet you'll find that while the total number of missions has decreased, the number of CAP saves has remained relatively constant, due to a drop in non distress ELTs. You may even find an increase - AFRCC leverages the CAP cell forensics team extensively and credits a save when that data is used to rescue a person in distress.

So, to reiterate - are our total SAR missions down? Yes. Does that mean there's less SAR to be done? Absolutely not. It just means that the role of our local ESOs is now more critical than ever.

You may very well be right that SAR is not the future of CAP. But it's not for lack of work; its for lack of vision and manpower.
« Last Edit: September 12, 2016, 10:02:20 PM by Spaceman3750 » Logged
The moment any commander or staff member considers themselves a gatekeeper, instead of a facilitator, they have failed at their job.
I can't fix all of CAP's problems, but I can lead from the bottom by building my squadron as a center of excellence to serve as an example of what every unit can be.
etodd
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 853

« Reply #38 on: September 12, 2016, 10:13:48 PM »

You could cull the AFRCC annual reports to get a broad idea.


Check out page 16 on this one. The states are listed separately from NHQ CAP.  In every year NHQ has 60 or 70 saves on top of state Wings. Has does that happen?

http://www.1af.acc.af.mil/Portals/93/2015%20ANNUAL%20REPORT.pdf?ver=2016-04-27-151339-313
Logged
MS - MO - AP - MP
Spaceman3750
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 2,609

« Reply #39 on: September 12, 2016, 10:16:27 PM »

You could cull the AFRCC annual reports to get a broad idea.


Check out page 16 on this one. The states are listed separately from NHQ CAP.  In every year NHQ has 60 or 70 saves on top of state Wings. Has does that happen?

http://www.1af.acc.af.mil/Portals/93/2015%20ANNUAL%20REPORT.pdf?ver=2016-04-27-151339-313

I did check out that one, before I posted. Re-read my original post.

EDIT: to be fair, I didn't spell it out like I did in my first draft. NHQ saves are cell and radar forensics saves.
Logged
The moment any commander or staff member considers themselves a gatekeeper, instead of a facilitator, they have failed at their job.
I can't fix all of CAP's problems, but I can lead from the bottom by building my squadron as a center of excellence to serve as an example of what every unit can be.
etodd
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 853

« Reply #40 on: September 12, 2016, 10:25:49 PM »


NHQ saves are cell and radar forensics saves.

Ahh. Thanks. I don't know much about those areas. Our Squadron doesn't seem to be involved with that. I'll look into it.
Logged
MS - MO - AP - MP
Spaceman3750
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 2,609

« Reply #41 on: September 12, 2016, 10:31:20 PM »


NHQ saves are cell and radar forensics saves.

Ahh. Thanks. I don't know much about those areas. Our Squadron doesn't seem to be involved with that. I'll look into it.

It's a national level team. It's little secret squirrel for my taste and I've never seen them advertise open positions but some day when I'm not a commander any more I'll start pestering people about it until I get a crack at the fun.

AFRCC speaks very highly of CAP in general, but especially the cell forensics piece. The way they put it, the software the team has developed to process the cell company data is light years ahead of what any other rescue agency, including USCG, is doing. In fact, I think I saw on the AOC Facebook page that the cell forensics team recently helped the USCG locate a boater in distress.
Logged
The moment any commander or staff member considers themselves a gatekeeper, instead of a facilitator, they have failed at their job.
I can't fix all of CAP's problems, but I can lead from the bottom by building my squadron as a center of excellence to serve as an example of what every unit can be.
PHall
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 5,864

« Reply #42 on: September 12, 2016, 10:33:14 PM »


NHQ saves are cell and radar forensics saves.

Ahh. Thanks. I don't know much about those areas. Our Squadron doesn't seem to be involved with that. I'll look into it.

Yeah, your squadron most likely won't be involved in it. There's only a very small number of people involved in it and most of them work in the industry.
Logged
etodd
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 853

« Reply #43 on: September 12, 2016, 10:41:38 PM »


Yeah, your squadron most likely won't be involved in it. There's only a very small number of people involved in it and most of them work in the industry.

Yep, I figured as much. I meant I would 'look into it' in terms of learning more about CAP's missions and capabilities. Its a bit above my computer knowledge for sure. LOL  Looks like its a handful of folks running that show. Are they training the next generation for when they retire? Henderson's knowledge, experience and expertise will take a special person to replace for sure.
Logged
MS - MO - AP - MP
Eclipse
Too Much Free Time Award
***
Posts: 27,996

« Reply #44 on: September 12, 2016, 10:41:46 PM »

So, to reiterate - are our total SAR missions down? Yes. Does that mean there's less SAR to be done? Absolutely not. It just means that the role of our local ESOs is now more critical than ever.

You may very well be right that SAR is not the future of CAP. But it's not for lack of work; its for lack of vision and manpower.

This, and why many of us push back against statements that insinuate "SAR is dwindling", etc.  "SAR" is not the only reason CAP has a fleet of planes,
and SAR is not the totality of ES, but when too many people start saying "SAR is dwindling" that makes for an easy excuse for them to quit
the first time they don't get the sortie they wanted, or something like this VIRB issue comes up.

It's easy to sit on the sides with a t-shirt on that says "business acumen" and pretend you could do everything better.  Give anyone a plane, unlimited funds,
no legal or organizational restrictions, and unlimited time, and they could come up with a fantastic airborne platform, but not one which
is scalable from either a deployment or training perspective.

There's also the non-trivial reality that government approvals to spend your (our) money are not taken lightly, and unfortunately
rarely if ever keep pace with technology, especially these days.  The private sector has the advantage again, from a design perspective,
but is rarely able to scale without that sweet, sweet gov'mint honey.

The actual truth of the matter is that most of CAP's aerial recon and photography mission can be fully accomplished with a smart phone (or even an iPhone).

Those 25MP DSLRs are beautiful pieces of heavy, mostly useless tech, while a GPS-enable cell phone camera can get the majority of the job done
for a 10th of the cost.  We were doing AP with 1MP cameras that had floppy drives in them 10 years ago, and I guarantee you I cold still get the job
done with one of those today. We sure as heck don't need RAW, and 80% of the people seeing those file type couldn't even open them.   In the time
you're making them "pop", FEMA has already deployed resources off the Barbie digital camera's shakey, blurry image of high water marks.

Real time video?  Facetime or Hangouts gets the job done without a complicated ground station or a lot of expensive equipment.

Work in a disaster area?  Maybe, maybe not.  In that case the photos come back in 20 minutes or as soon as you hit an FBO with wifi (BTDT).
« Last Edit: September 12, 2016, 10:53:35 PM by Eclipse » Logged

"Effort" does not equal "results".
The contents of this post are Copyright 2017 by eclipse. All rights are reserved. Specific permission is given to quote this post here on CAP-Talk only.

etodd
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 853

« Reply #45 on: September 12, 2016, 10:49:30 PM »

Good points Eclipse.

We could always go back to the satellite business that is STILL on the CAP website:

Quote
Airborne Digital Imaging

CAP maintains a strong nationwide capability to not only take digital images from the air and carry them back to customers, but to transmit images via satellite phone to any email or web address in the world. The process is so quick, that the receiver can often call back on the satellite phone to talk with the air crew while they are still over the target area!

https://www.capmembers.com/emergency_services/operations_support/advanced-technologies/
Logged
MS - MO - AP - MP
etodd
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 853

« Reply #46 on: September 12, 2016, 10:52:33 PM »

Good points Eclipse.

We could always go back to the satellite business that is STILL on the CAP website:

Quote
Airborne Digital Imaging

CAP maintains a strong nationwide capability to not only take digital images from the air and carry them back to customers, but to transmit images via satellite phone to any email or web address in the world. The process is so quick, that the receiver can often call back on the satellite phone to talk with the air crew while they are still over the target area!

https://www.capmembers.com/emergency_services/operations_support/advanced-technologies/

Or maybe GIIEP

https://www.capmembers.com/emergency_services/operations_support/cellphone-and-data-card-use/
Logged
MS - MO - AP - MP
Eclipse
Too Much Free Time Award
***
Posts: 27,996

« Reply #47 on: September 12, 2016, 10:56:40 PM »

SDIS hasn't been a viable platform for ages, and GIIEP, while effective in its own right, is very dated tech in very limited availability.
Logged

"Effort" does not equal "results".
The contents of this post are Copyright 2017 by eclipse. All rights are reserved. Specific permission is given to quote this post here on CAP-Talk only.

SarDragon
Global Moderator

Posts: 10,061
Unit: NAVAIRPAC

« Reply #48 on: September 13, 2016, 12:09:33 AM »

[redacted]

The actual truth of the matter is that most of CAP's aerial recon and photography mission can be fully accomplished with a smart phone (or even an iPhone).

Those 25MP DSLRs are beautiful pieces of heavy, mostly useless tech, while a GPS-enable cell phone camera can get the majority of the job done for a 10th of the cost.  We were doing AP with 1MP cameras that had floppy drives in them 10 years ago, and I guarantee you I cold still get the job done with one of those today. We sure as heck don't need RAW, and 80% of the people seeing those file type couldn't even open them.

I think you're being unfairly dismissive here. It's not just all about the pixel count here. These DSLRs have much better lenses, and provide a much better range of operation than a cell phone camera.

As for the RAW format, that capability may not have much application right now, but it provides the ability to really zoom in on the subject of the photo. Right off hand, it's really useful in fire damage analysis. CAWG has had several fire aftermath missions just this year, and they like our product.
Logged
Dave Bowles
Maj, CAP
AT1, USN Retired
Mitchell Award (unnumbered)
C/WO, CAP, Ret
LSThiker
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 1,707
Unit: Earth

« Reply #49 on: September 13, 2016, 12:47:07 AM »

It's not just all about the pixel count here. These DSLRs have much better lenses, and provide a much better range of operation than a cell phone camera.

It really is not even about pixel count period.  Although manufacturers really love hitting the markets about pixel counts, it is grossly misleading unless you know something about digital photography.  While pixel count was important in digital photography 10-15 years ago, the main important factors in digital photography are the quality of glass, aperture, and the sensor size. 

Comparing a 1/3 in smartphone sensor (even if it is a BSI-CMOS) against a full-frame CMOS is comparing fruit to vegetables.  That is, you are comparing a 15.5mm2 sensor vs a 864mm2 sensor.  The dynamic range in a full-frame CMOS is vastly superior to the dynamic range of a 1/3 in smartphone sensor.  Heck, full-frame CMOS is vastly superior to APS-C/APS-H. 

Even comparing the apertures of the cameras is comparing fruits to vegetables.  A f/2.2 on an iPhone or even a f/1.7(?) with newer smartphones is nothing compared to the f/2.2 or f/1.4 on a dSLR.  There just is not ability to compare the aperture (when taken into account the image sensor size and focal length) to that of the aperture of a dSLR. 

The quality of lens for a smartphone is just nothing compared to the quality of a dSLR even on the low-end.  The amount of chromatic abberation in a smartphone vs a quality low-end glass lens is noticeable. 

The photo missions I have done have turned out great with our dSLRs while the quick PnS with our smartphones turn out crappy.  Too much noise, too little zoom ability when asked, not nearly as sharp, etc.  Definitely keep the dSLRs.
« Last Edit: September 13, 2016, 12:50:19 AM by LSThiker » Logged
Eclipse
Too Much Free Time Award
***
Posts: 27,996

« Reply #50 on: September 13, 2016, 07:46:44 AM »

The last two above both miss and make my point at the same time (kinda impressive, actually).

Members want to start talking about apertures and focal lengths and f-stops in a world where most
people take selfies with a finger-smeared FFC and are impressed with the image.

Yes, better is always theoretically better, but the mission isn't architectural photography.

"Is the building there?" and "How wet is it?".  Are generally the missions.

The photo mosaics are a different animal, intended to take pictures of ""stuff we didn't know about" for later.
So I will grant resolution helps there.

Anything else is gravy and in my experience the extra pixel density and resolution is a nice-to-have
that as much makes up for the AP's short  comings as (i.e. "he snapped the wrong target but we can zoom")
as a mission necessity.
« Last Edit: September 13, 2016, 07:52:02 AM by Eclipse » Logged

"Effort" does not equal "results".
The contents of this post are Copyright 2017 by eclipse. All rights are reserved. Specific permission is given to quote this post here on CAP-Talk only.

etodd
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 853

« Reply #51 on: September 13, 2016, 08:52:52 AM »

SDIS hasn't been a viable platform for ages, and GIIEP, while effective in its own right, is very dated tech in very limited availability.


Yep. Funny how all those pages on the CAP website just never seem to get deleted or edited.
Logged
MS - MO - AP - MP
etodd
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 853

« Reply #52 on: September 13, 2016, 08:58:34 AM »


"Is the building there?" and "How wet is it?".  Are generally the missions.


I'm seeing that now. A cell phone camera or little pocket cam would certainly be just fine for so many missions, provided gps data is there. And dropping back to 3-6 mp images would certainly help with upload speeds as opposed to 24mp, when you have hundreds of images. 
Logged
MS - MO - AP - MP
LSThiker
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 1,707
Unit: Earth

« Reply #53 on: September 13, 2016, 10:51:05 AM »

The last two above both miss and make my point at the same time (kinda impressive, actually).

Members want to start talking about apertures and focal lengths and f-stops in a world where most
people take selfies with a finger-smeared FFC and are impressed with the image.

Yet knowledge or the ability to set f-stop (which is aperture), focal lengths, ISO, etc is not necessary as long as the image itself is still good.  The auto function on all dSLRs is pretty good.  Nevertheless, bad glass, chromatic abberation, and poor dynamic range cannot be overcome regardless of how good the photographer is.   


Quote
Yes, better is always theoretically better, but the mission isn't architectural photography.

"Is the building there?" and "How wet is it?".  Are generally the missions.

The photo mosaics are a different animal, intended to take pictures of ""stuff we didn't know about" for later.
So I will grant resolution helps there.

Oddly enough, most of my mission are exactly "architectural" photography (even though that is not the correct term for that type of photography).  My state's "3 and 4 letter agencies" request that they want high quality images.  In fact, I have flown state funded photo missions to simply photograph state buildings for state planning purposes.  I have flown photo missions for the state that wanted to see the condition of bridges after heavy flooding so that their engineers can determine the damage.  On tornado missions, they want a wide area, but they also want the ability to "zoom" into areas to look more closely if they need to.  The vast majority of the photo mission I have flown were more than "is the building there" and "how wet is it".  The agencies want high quality images that simply a smartphone just won't cut. 

Perhaps that works for your state, but I know that is not what my state wants for when they request our assistance. 
Logged
etodd
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 853

« Reply #54 on: September 13, 2016, 03:07:14 PM »


 The vast majority of the photo mission I have flown were more than "is the building there" and "how wet is it".  The agencies want high quality images that simply a smartphone just won't cut. 

So again goes back to innovation and long range planning of what CAP's future missions will be and what gear and skill sets will be needed. Do we dumb down all assets to a lowest common denominator? Do we split it all up with some Squadrons using cell phones or pocket cameras and others with high end gear? Or do we hope that we have the best gear for everyone?

Long range goals and planning. 5 to 20 years.  I'd sure like to be a fly on the wall at all those meetings and planning sessions at Hdqs.
Logged
MS - MO - AP - MP
Spaceman3750
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 2,609

« Reply #55 on: September 13, 2016, 03:40:58 PM »


 The vast majority of the photo mission I have flown were more than "is the building there" and "how wet is it".  The agencies want high quality images that simply a smartphone just won't cut. 

So again goes back to innovation and long range planning of what CAP's future missions will be and what gear and skill sets will be needed. Do we dumb down all assets to a lowest common denominator? Do we split it all up with some Squadrons using cell phones or pocket cameras and others with high end gear? Or do we hope that we have the best gear for everyone?

Long range goals and planning. 5 to 20 years.  I'd sure like to be a fly on the wall at all those meetings and planning sessions at Hdqs.

At least in my wing we have a DSLR assigned to every aircraft (or very close to it). When we get the VIRBs back we will have the same situation there. What more do you want?

I've said it before and will say it again. You seem pretty sharp. I like your enthusiasm. But maybe you should spend some time getting to know people in your wing and getting a feel for the actual state of things, before shaking the boat back and forth based only on your perceptions and assumptions.
Logged
The moment any commander or staff member considers themselves a gatekeeper, instead of a facilitator, they have failed at their job.
I can't fix all of CAP's problems, but I can lead from the bottom by building my squadron as a center of excellence to serve as an example of what every unit can be.
etodd
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 853

« Reply #56 on: September 13, 2016, 04:30:12 PM »



I've said it before and will say it again. You seem pretty sharp. I like your enthusiasm. But maybe you should spend some time getting to know people in your wing and getting a feel for the actual state of things, before shaking the boat back and forth based only on your perceptions and assumptions.

Thanks. I really do need to sit back in the corner of the room and listen more often. I admit that.
Logged
MS - MO - AP - MP
etodd
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 853

« Reply #57 on: September 13, 2016, 04:33:17 PM »



All he did wrong was not making it a church.


Well ....

Quote
The United States Ranger Corps is a ministry of New Beginnings dedicated to strengthening the bond between fathers and sons using weekly meetings, monthly outings, quarterly trips, and annual excursions.

http://www.nbbconline.com/ministries/usrc/
Logged
MS - MO - AP - MP
scooter
Seasoned Member

Posts: 200

« Reply #58 on: September 13, 2016, 05:36:48 PM »

Since our short experience with the VIRB was mostly OK, now would be a good time for Wings, or better yet National, to come up with a standardized checklist for using it based on experience.. From what I saw, using the tablet in flight made things difficult. Should probably not use it in flight and just use it to turn on the camera prior to takeoff and leave it on for the remainder of the flight. Whatever! Anyway, seems like a standardized checklist would benefit users and customers. FWIW.
Logged
etodd
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 853

« Reply #59 on: September 13, 2016, 09:12:46 PM »

Since our short experience with the VIRB was mostly OK, now would be a good time for Wings, or better yet National, to come up with a standardized checklist for using it based on experience.

I attended a SAREX at Maxwell specifically geared toward AP using the Virb and we did have a good checklist. And most of us agreed with you. We started up the camera on the tarmac using the tablet, closed up the tablet and stowed it until we landed. The tablet is no more than a remote start and stop button anyway. Sometimes it would loose connection with the camera, hence our decision to just start the camera on the ground. Delete those un-needed images on the laptop before uploading. Some folks would start the camera using the button on the camera before engine startup and not worry about the tablet at all, once you have verified settings, using the tablet.

Which basically meant you could fly without an AP on-board if needed. The MP or MO could start the camera before starting the engine. You could then have several planes flying the mission and one AP on the ground editing and uploading as the planes returned. (Well ... as I said .. if needed. LOL)
« Last Edit: September 13, 2016, 10:26:44 PM by etodd » Logged
MS - MO - AP - MP
Spaceman3750
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 2,609

« Reply #60 on: September 13, 2016, 11:21:31 PM »

I thought FEMA didn't want processed photos? Turn the GPS in the camera on, take the photos, and upload them to their online system. No watermarking or imprinting of the north arrow.
Logged
The moment any commander or staff member considers themselves a gatekeeper, instead of a facilitator, they have failed at their job.
I can't fix all of CAP's problems, but I can lead from the bottom by building my squadron as a center of excellence to serve as an example of what every unit can be.
LSThiker
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 1,707
Unit: Earth

« Reply #61 on: September 14, 2016, 12:51:41 AM »

I thought FEMA didn't want processed photos? Turn the GPS in the camera on, take the photos, and upload them to their online system. No watermarking or imprinting of the north arrow.

If a group asks for unprocessed JPEGs, it really is an oxymoron.  JPEG photos are processed to predetermined color saturation, white balance, tone curve, sharpening, and color space and they are compressed.  Sorry, it always humors me when I hear people say that.  It is similar when I have people ask for a digital photo at 300 dpi.   
Logged
etodd
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 853

« Reply #62 on: September 14, 2016, 07:44:34 AM »

I thought FEMA didn't want processed photos? Turn the GPS in the camera on, take the photos, and upload them to their online system. No watermarking or imprinting of the north arrow.

Correct for FEMA.  All the post-processing we did before using Robogeo to batch process files to add the North arrow, the lat/longs dates, locations etc. on the viewed imaged are not wanted now. Simply choose the desired images and use the FEMA uploading software. Much easier now.

The AP Mission Task Guide still mentions all of that, and new APs are I guess still expected to learn the Robogeo system, in case customers other than FEMA do desire certain data to be watermarked again.
Logged
MS - MO - AP - MP
JeffDG
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 3,157

« Reply #63 on: September 14, 2016, 08:59:31 AM »

I thought FEMA didn't want processed photos? Turn the GPS in the camera on, take the photos, and upload them to their online system. No watermarking or imprinting of the north arrow.

If a group asks for unprocessed JPEGs, it really is an oxymoron.  JPEG photos are processed to predetermined color saturation, white balance, tone curve, sharpening, and color space and they are compressed.  Sorry, it always humors me when I hear people say that.  It is similar when I have people ask for a digital photo at 300 dpi.   
I like to mess with people who ask for unprocessed photos by sending in FITS format.
Logged
LSThiker
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 1,707
Unit: Earth

« Reply #64 on: September 14, 2016, 10:18:04 AM »

I thought FEMA didn't want processed photos? Turn the GPS in the camera on, take the photos, and upload them to their online system. No watermarking or imprinting of the north arrow.

If a group asks for unprocessed JPEGs, it really is an oxymoron.  JPEG photos are processed to predetermined color saturation, white balance, tone curve, sharpening, and color space and they are compressed.  Sorry, it always humors me when I hear people say that.  It is similar when I have people ask for a digital photo at 300 dpi.   
I like to mess with people who ask for unprocessed photos by sending in FITS format.

I can open them up.  Well simple ones, not complex files :)
Logged
JeffDG
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 3,157

« Reply #65 on: September 14, 2016, 10:54:21 AM »

I thought FEMA didn't want processed photos? Turn the GPS in the camera on, take the photos, and upload them to their online system. No watermarking or imprinting of the north arrow.

If a group asks for unprocessed JPEGs, it really is an oxymoron.  JPEG photos are processed to predetermined color saturation, white balance, tone curve, sharpening, and color space and they are compressed.  Sorry, it always humors me when I hear people say that.  It is similar when I have people ask for a digital photo at 300 dpi.   
I like to mess with people who ask for unprocessed photos by sending in FITS format.

I can open them up.  Well simple ones, not complex files :)
Seeing as my minimum photographic aperture is 8", and I prefer to use 14" class aperture, I have lots of FITS sitting around!

How are you supposed to do photometry on JPEG?
Logged
LSThiker
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 1,707
Unit: Earth

« Reply #66 on: September 14, 2016, 11:35:23 AM »

Seeing as my minimum photographic aperture is 8", and I prefer to use 14" class aperture, I have lots of FITS sitting around!

How are you supposed to do photometry on JPEG?

Nice.  The same method when people do densitometry on saturated image areas <ugh>.  :) 
Logged
Eclipse
Too Much Free Time Award
***
Posts: 27,996

« Reply #67 on: September 14, 2016, 12:10:57 PM »

Seeing as my minimum photographic aperture is 8

Heh, you wish...
Logged

"Effort" does not equal "results".
The contents of this post are Copyright 2017 by eclipse. All rights are reserved. Specific permission is given to quote this post here on CAP-Talk only.

LSThiker
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 1,707
Unit: Earth

« Reply #68 on: September 14, 2016, 12:36:39 PM »

Seeing as my minimum photographic aperture is 8

Heh, you wish...

Why?
Logged
Eclipse
Too Much Free Time Award
***
Posts: 27,996

« Reply #69 on: September 14, 2016, 12:40:14 PM »

Seeing as my minimum photographic aperture is 8

Heh, you wish...

Why?

Meh, most guys over-estimate their aperture length by about 1/3.
Logged

"Effort" does not equal "results".
The contents of this post are Copyright 2017 by eclipse. All rights are reserved. Specific permission is given to quote this post here on CAP-Talk only.

JeffDG
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 3,157

« Reply #70 on: September 14, 2016, 01:18:38 PM »

Seeing as my minimum photographic aperture is 8

Heh, you wish...
Well, I have worked with a 1.8m aperture a couple times, and the data there came out as FITS too.  It was a pain because you had to get there a couple hours before taking shots to hook up the liquid N2
Logged
Eclipse
Too Much Free Time Award
***
Posts: 27,996

« Reply #71 on: September 14, 2016, 01:25:32 PM »

((*sigh*))
Logged

"Effort" does not equal "results".
The contents of this post are Copyright 2017 by eclipse. All rights are reserved. Specific permission is given to quote this post here on CAP-Talk only.

Fubar
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 620

« Reply #72 on: September 14, 2016, 01:40:44 PM »

((*sigh*))

Don't worry man, I got you. Even giggled slightly.
Logged
Brit_in_CAP
Seasoned Member

Posts: 361
Unit: MER-VA-002

« Reply #73 on: September 15, 2016, 09:52:11 AM »

((*sigh*))

Don't worry man, I got you. Even giggled slightly.
+1...brightened my day..  ;)
Logged
SarDragon
Global Moderator

Posts: 10,061
Unit: NAVAIRPAC

« Reply #74 on: October 01, 2016, 03:15:50 PM »

OK, enough of the Ranger Corps crap. Clean it up or lock it up.

ETA: Just removed them. Nothing to see here.
« Last Edit: October 01, 2016, 07:39:22 PM by SarDragon » Logged
Dave Bowles
Maj, CAP
AT1, USN Retired
Mitchell Award (unnumbered)
C/WO, CAP, Ret
Pages: 1 2 3 4 [All] Print 
CAP Talk  |  Operations  |  Tools of the trade  |  Topic: Garmin Virb Camera Mounts
 


Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP SMF 2.0.13 | SMF © 2016, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Page created in 0.508 seconds with 21 queries.