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GaryVC
Member

Posts: 79
Unit: PCR-NV-070

« on: July 23, 2016, 01:29:19 PM »

Is there a report that shows if and when a cadet has gone to encampment? I searched in eServices and it appeared to find one but I was unable to view the report. Ideally I would like to see when a cadet went and how many encampments they have been to.
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kwe1009
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Posts: 551

« Reply #1 on: July 23, 2016, 01:38:57 PM »

Under "Member Search (restricted)" you can see the encampments a person has attended along with the year and location.  Not everyone has access to that search but if you are a commander, deputy commander, or deputy commander for cadets then you should have access.  You can only look at one person at a time.  I don't know if any eServices reports for encampment.
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Eclipse
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« Reply #2 on: July 23, 2016, 02:13:59 PM »

Cadet Programs > Cadet Promotions > Reports > Cadet Encampment Report
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GaryVC
Member

Posts: 79
Unit: PCR-NV-070

« Reply #3 on: July 23, 2016, 07:25:38 PM »

Got it. It shows who and the most recent encampment but not how many.
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GaryVC
Member

Posts: 79
Unit: PCR-NV-070

« Reply #4 on: July 23, 2016, 07:30:32 PM »

Cadet Programs > Cadet Promotions > Reports > Cadet Encampment Report

Got it. It show who and the most recent but not how many. I guess I can make my own using the Member Search. One of our cadets has been to six encampments in the past 3 years.
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Eclipse
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« Reply #5 on: July 23, 2016, 10:42:19 PM »

Cadet Programs > Cadet Promotions > Reports > Cadet Encampment Report

Got it. It show who and the most recent but not how many. I guess I can make my own using the Member Search. One of our cadets has been to six encampments in the past 3 years.

That or something out of CAPWatch would be the only way to pull that data.
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PHall
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Posts: 5,581

« Reply #6 on: July 24, 2016, 04:41:55 AM »

Cadet Programs > Cadet Promotions > Reports > Cadet Encampment Report

Got it. It show who and the most recent but not how many. I guess I can make my own using the Member Search. One of our cadets has been to six encampments in the past 3 years.

Yeah, there seems to be a number of cadets in NVWG and CAWG who seem to think it's a good idea to staff both the CAWG and NVWG encampments in the same year.
I don't blame the cadets as much as I blame the CAWG/NVWG Cadet Programs folks who allow it to happen.
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GaryVC
Member

Posts: 79
Unit: PCR-NV-070

« Reply #7 on: July 24, 2016, 12:39:43 PM »


Quote

Yeah, there seems to be a number of cadets in NVWG and CAWG who seem to think it's a good idea to staff both the CAWG and NVWG encampments in the same year.
I don't blame the cadets as much as I blame the CAWG/NVWG Cadet Programs folks who allow it to happen.

I think it is more complicated than that. For the most recent NVWG encampment the Commandant of Cadets recruited some cadet staff from California. Our cadet who went to the California encampment this year was apparently on kitchen duty.
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PHall
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Posts: 5,581

« Reply #8 on: July 24, 2016, 01:45:56 PM »


Quote

Yeah, there seems to be a number of cadets in NVWG and CAWG who seem to think it's a good idea to staff both the CAWG and NVWG encampments in the same year.
I don't blame the cadets as much as I blame the CAWG/NVWG Cadet Programs folks who allow it to happen.

I think it is more complicated than that. For the most recent NVWG encampment the Commandant of Cadets recruited some cadet staff from California. Our cadet who went to the California encampment this year was apparently on kitchen duty.

Well, you aren't  assigned to Mess, you have to apply for it. If the cadet didn't want Mess all they had to do was say no.
And regarding NVWG cadets on staff at the CAWG Encampment, if you don't bother to apply, you have zero chance at getting a job.
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Spaceman3750
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« Reply #9 on: July 24, 2016, 05:59:12 PM »

Cadet Programs > Cadet Promotions > Reports > Cadet Encampment Report

Got it. It show who and the most recent but not how many. I guess I can make my own using the Member Search. One of our cadets has been to six encampments in the past 3 years.

Yeah, there seems to be a number of cadets in NVWG and CAWG who seem to think it's a good idea to staff both the CAWG and NVWG encampments in the same year.
I don't blame the cadets as much as I blame the CAWG/NVWG Cadet Programs folks who allow it to happen.

What is wrong with it?
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"I'm sorry sir, which tab were we on?"

The moment any commander or staff member considers themselves a gatekeeper, instead of a facilitator, they have failed at their job.
I can't fix all of CAP's problems, but I can lead from the bottom by building my squadron as a center of excellence to serve as an example of what every unit can be.
PHall
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Posts: 5,581

« Reply #10 on: July 24, 2016, 06:35:19 PM »

Cadet Programs > Cadet Promotions > Reports > Cadet Encampment Report

Got it. It show who and the most recent but not how many. I guess I can make my own using the Member Search. One of our cadets has been to six encampments in the past 3 years.

Yeah, there seems to be a number of cadets in NVWG and CAWG who seem to think it's a good idea to staff both the CAWG and NVWG encampments in the same year.
I don't blame the cadets as much as I blame the CAWG/NVWG Cadet Programs folks who allow it to happen.

What is wrong with it?

More then a few rumblings about how CAWG cadets stole all the jobs at the NVWG encampment.
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The Infamous Meerkat
Forum Regular

Posts: 153
Unit: RMR-ID-073

« Reply #11 on: July 24, 2016, 07:04:10 PM »

Pointless bickering.

NVWG, like most wings, doesn't have the available staff to run their own encampment without having plenty of staffing holes. If we would all try to work together rather than try to put up walls at the state line (or in other areas) we would be able to run some seriously fantastic encampments, rather than a multitude of "yeah, we did our best to  (but couldn't fully) satisfy the requirements" type encampments. CAWG had a group of very well experienced and tempered Cadets that were helping at the encampment, which is nothing more than a service to NVWG that they should be grateful for. NVWG's encampment is as good as it is today because of their help, not in spite of it.

Grumblings about theft of positions are garbage, if they were the most qualified, they would have been selected.
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Captain Kevin Brizzi, CAP
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Former C/TSgt, CAP
Former C/MAJ, Army JROTC
Eclipse
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« Reply #12 on: July 24, 2016, 07:06:39 PM »

More then a few rumblings about how CAWG cadets stole all the jobs at the NVWG encampment.

Don't get that - hear about it on occasion, no idea why either wing allows it.  Onsie-twosie cadets
being part of the "road show" ho travel 22 hours for an encampment, whatever, but when a large
contingent from another wing takes a big part of the jobs in another wing, that's not right.

Encampments are supposed to train locals, not to mention the opportunities stolen from those same locals.

Pointless bickering.

NVWG, like most wings, doesn't have the available staff to run their own encampment without having plenty of staffing holes.

Why not?  I see there are issues with number in NVWG right now, that just means a smaller scope of the activity.
Encampments should be able to scale to the need.

Where are the NVWG cadets during the encampment week and why isn't there downward pressure for them to
"give back" through staff service.
« Last Edit: July 24, 2016, 07:10:55 PM by Eclipse » Logged

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The Infamous Meerkat
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Posts: 153
Unit: RMR-ID-073

« Reply #13 on: July 24, 2016, 10:20:51 PM »

Eclipse,

There are plenty of NVWG Cadets both in ranks and in cadre for this encampment, which is what makes this assertion a bit strange. The only one that I ever heard complained about was the Cadet Commander because another one of the other lower ranking officers thought she deserved it instead. Nevada receives beneficial assistance from California, any other assertion I would say is clouded by some personal vendettas...

Also, Encampments are held primarily for the benefit of the local Cadets, but where does it say that Encampments should not welcome outside help from subject matter experts and willing volunteers? Why do we need to continue to work only for our own wings benefit instead of working to better the CAP as a whole? Your assertion that people helping out at other states encampments should be considered theft is a bit disturbing to me.
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Captain Kevin Brizzi, CAP
SGT, USMC
Former C/TSgt, CAP
Former C/MAJ, Army JROTC
Mitchell 1969
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 560
Unit: PCR-CA-051

« Reply #14 on: July 25, 2016, 12:58:43 AM »



Encampments are supposed to train locals


And, other than in EPR eleventy dash umpty-eight, is there a CAP ref cite for that anywhere?

(EPR = "Eclipse Personal Regulation")
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_________________
Bernard J. Wilson, Major, CAP

Mitchell 1969; Earhart 1971; Eaker 1973. Cadet Flying Encampment, License, 1970. IACE New Zealand 1971; IACE Korea 1973.

CAP has been bery, bery good to me.
Ozzy
Seasoned Member

Posts: 240
Unit: NY

« Reply #15 on: November 08, 2016, 01:09:54 PM »

I concur with Eclipse a bit when encampments are primarily to better and strengthen a wing's cadet programs. National does seem to agree too, per CAPP 52-24 Chapter 1, section 1.1d "Goals Areas ... And finally the encampment is the centerpiece of the wing-level Cadet Programs, providing the wing with an opportunity to boost the capabilities of its hometown and composite squadrons and to standardize cadet training within the wing, so the encampment program pursues goals for the wing's overall Cadet Programs."

By this I do believe that an encampment should choose cadets primarily for student and staff positions by wing first and qualifications second. That being said, if only a c/2nd Lt from the wing applied for CC then mayhaps see what the other options are.

Sent from my SM-T350 using Tapatalk


Ahem, my apologies, I did not look at the date of last post...
« Last Edit: November 08, 2016, 02:18:53 PM by Ozzy » Logged
Ozyilmaz, SSgt, CAP
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NYWG Encampment 07, 08, 09, 10
CTWG Encampment 09, 11, 16
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Mitchell 1969
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Unit: PCR-CA-051

« Reply #16 on: November 08, 2016, 07:38:42 PM »

I concur with Eclipse a bit when encampments are primarily to better and strengthen a wing's cadet programs. National does seem to agree too, per CAPP 52-24 Chapter 1, section 1.1d "Goals Areas ... And finally the encampment is the centerpiece of the wing-level Cadet Programs, providing the wing with an opportunity to boost the capabilities of its hometown and composite squadrons and to standardize cadet training within the wing, so the encampment program pursues goals for the wing's overall Cadet Programs."

By this I do believe that an encampment should choose cadets primarily for student and staff positions by wing first and qualifications second. That being said, if only a c/2nd Lt from the wing applied for CC then mayhaps see what the other options are.

Sent from my SM-T350 using Tapatalk


Ahem, my apologies, I did not look at the date of last post...

Choose cadets "...by wing first and qualifications second..."

Really? I mean, REALLY?

Proximity isn't a qualification or a selling point any more than is hair color.

"We provided the best South Dakota cadet cadre members we could find, instead of the best cadet cadre members we could find. So, our graduates can build on and enjoy the South Dakotaness of it all, because that's important."

Ever see the Right Stuff, when the guys from Washington were at Pancho's place?

Liaison Man: You mean for this "space race", you don't want our best pilots?
Recruiter: I didn't say that. We want the best pilots that we can get.

Meanwhile, back at South Dakota encampment..."Yes, CAP is a nationwide program. Yes, the Wyoming cadet is a great choice. But that's just it, her qualifications cant be allowed to outrank where she resides. Because Wing."

And yet, in another thread, we are talking about bringing in AFROTC cadets, sight unseen, to encampments, because mentor.

« Last Edit: November 08, 2016, 07:44:05 PM by Mitchell 1969 » Logged
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Bernard J. Wilson, Major, CAP

Mitchell 1969; Earhart 1971; Eaker 1973. Cadet Flying Encampment, License, 1970. IACE New Zealand 1971; IACE Korea 1973.

CAP has been bery, bery good to me.
Eclipse
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« Reply #17 on: November 08, 2016, 07:50:36 PM »

And where do the local cadets get their chance?  I am just going to have to assume you haven't
had to deal with the "road show".

In >all< cases where there's a tie, the local cadet should always get precedence, and when there
is a question, local development should trump "best".

Any idea that CAP is a "national program" in this respect, denies or ignores the fact that most cadets get a single
shot at a respective staff position because of their own timing / age issues, and any time a cadet from another wing
is given an out of state job, that's a local cadet who lost out, and may never have another chance.

CAP is decidedly local and unlike the military or other similar situations, cadre cadets aren't expected to come in the door
fully baked and autonomous, the seniors are there to insure things run properly, catch them when they fall, and
guide them when they struggle.

Encampment CC's who bring in a bunch of road show ringers so things go "perfect" are missing the point entirely.
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abdsp51
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« Reply #18 on: November 08, 2016, 08:57:24 PM »

Eclipse following your thought process which is logical and reasonable how about this. 

Osan Cadet Sq, Kadena Cadet Sq, Ramstein Cadet Sq and the Spangdhalem Cadet Sq all decide to do a collective overseas encampment. 

Osan host's  but doesn't have enough bodies for staffing so every one else fills in the voids.  You would rather have a C/SSgt from Osan be the the C/CC instead of say a C/Maj from Ramstein because of locality?
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Eclipse
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« Reply #19 on: November 08, 2016, 09:07:12 PM »

Obviously not, for starters, a CSSgt isn't even marginally qualified for the job.

We need to be talking about reasonable situations, and overseas units aren't ever going to be in that lane for
a number of logistical reasons.

The assumption here is that the cadets in question are at least qualified minimally on paper.
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Mitchell 1969
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« Reply #20 on: November 09, 2016, 12:19:37 AM »

And where do the local cadets get their chance?  I am just going to have to assume you haven't
had to deal with the "road show".

In >all< cases where there's a tie, the local cadet should always get precedence, and when there
is a question, local development should trump "best".

Any idea that CAP is a "national program" in this respect, denies or ignores the fact that most cadets get a single
shot at a respective staff position because of their own timing / age issues, and any time a cadet from another wing
is given an out of state job, that's a local cadet who lost out, and may never have another chance.

CAP is decidedly local and unlike the military or other similar situations, cadre cadets aren't expected to come in the door
fully baked and autonomous, the seniors are there to insure things run properly, catch them when they fall, and
guide them when they struggle.

Encampment CC's who bring in a bunch of road show ringers so things go "perfect" are missing the point entirely.

You have, as you commonly do when it suits you, assumed incorrectly. But, you know what they say about people who assume. On second thought, I think your assumptions are in conflict with such knowledge. Further, lest I fall into the "assume trap" myself, I'll simply encourage you to delve into it further and refrain from further engagement in same.

And, as you also commonly do when it suits you, you are replying to my comments by taking them out of context and are offering a response based on your erroneous contextual interpretation. Note carefully, if you will, that my post was in reply to Post #15 in this thread, which contains absolutely no reference to, and therefore no contextual construction of, the hypothetical situation which you conjuredwhich contains a non-referenced and therefore non-existent "tie."

Feel free to draw your straw men from within any Wing of your choosing, sir, but I must insist on not being misquoted.

Meanwhile, I eagerly await reading any regulatory citations which you might provide that support your positions on...well,...anything... which you have claimed in this thread and which prohibit what I said.  (By regulatory citations, I mean something that actually supports your stance, not simply "Here's a regulation, and I think it means...")
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Bernard J. Wilson, Major, CAP

Mitchell 1969; Earhart 1971; Eaker 1973. Cadet Flying Encampment, License, 1970. IACE New Zealand 1971; IACE Korea 1973.

CAP has been bery, bery good to me.
SarDragon
Global Moderator

Posts: 9,688
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« Reply #21 on: November 09, 2016, 02:48:36 AM »

Eclipse following your thought process which is logical and reasonable how about this. 

Osan Cadet Sq, Kadena Cadet Sq, Ramstein Cadet Sq and the Spangdhalem Cadet Sq all decide to do a collective overseas encampment. 

Osan host's  but doesn't have enough bodies for staffing so every one else fills in the voids.  You would rather have a C/SSgt from Osan be the the C/CC instead of say a C/Maj from Ramstein because of locality?

Having been a direct participant in that circus, I gotta say that it is a total outlier to the stateside situations concerning road show cadets. Also, a joint event among those four units would be logistically difficult at best, trending toward impossible. The first two, plus Misawa and Yokota if they are still active, or the last two, might work out. There are significant travel issues involved, even within Japan for those three units.
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Dave Bowles
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Ozzy
Seasoned Member

Posts: 240
Unit: NY

« Reply #22 on: November 09, 2016, 10:55:16 AM »

(Snip)

Meanwhile, I eagerly await reading any regulatory citations which you might provide that support your positions on...well,...anything... which you have claimed in this thread and which prohibit what I said.  (By regulatory citations, I mean something that actually supports your stance, not simply "Here's a regulation, and I think it means...")

CAPR 52-24  9-2b refers to CAPP 52-24 for the encampment program guidance. For the encampment program goals, go look at Chapter 1.
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Ozyilmaz, SSgt, CAP
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CTWG Encampment 09, 11, 16
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Eclipse
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« Reply #23 on: November 09, 2016, 10:58:51 AM »

And where do the local cadets get their chance?  I am just going to have to assume you haven't
had to deal with the "road show".

In >all< cases where there's a tie, the local cadet should always get precedence, and when there
is a question, local development should trump "best".

Any idea that CAP is a "national program" in this respect, denies or ignores the fact that most cadets get a single
shot at a respective staff position because of their own timing / age issues, and any time a cadet from another wing
is given an out of state job, that's a local cadet who lost out, and may never have another chance.

CAP is decidedly local and unlike the military or other similar situations, cadre cadets aren't expected to come in the door
fully baked and autonomous, the seniors are there to insure things run properly, catch them when they fall, and
guide them when they struggle.

Encampment CC's who bring in a bunch of road show ringers so things go "perfect" are missing the point entirely.

You have, as you commonly do when it suits you, assumed incorrectly. But, you know what they say about people who assume. On second thought, I think your assumptions are in conflict with such knowledge. Further, lest I fall into the "assume trap" myself, I'll simply encourage you to delve into it further and refrain from further engagement in same.

And, as you also commonly do when it suits you, you are replying to my comments by taking them out of context and are offering a response based on your erroneous contextual interpretation. Note carefully, if you will, that my post was in reply to Post #15 in this thread, which contains absolutely no reference to, and therefore no contextual construction of, the hypothetical situation which you conjuredwhich contains a non-referenced and therefore non-existent "tie."

Feel free to draw your straw men from within any Wing of your choosing, sir, but I must insist on not being misquoted.

Meanwhile, I eagerly await reading any regulatory citations which you might provide that support your positions on...well,...anything... which you have claimed in this thread and which prohibit what I said.  (By regulatory citations, I mean something that actually supports your stance, not simply "Here's a regulation, and I think it means...")


The majority of my assertions come from the common sense mandates of the authority under which a respective
encampment is executed (the wing), coupled with my personal experience in both the negative and positive of this sitaution,
however to support that I offer the below:

CAPP 52-24, Page 2:
http://www.capmembers.com/media/cms/Encampment_Manual_June_2014_1F6A5D093CD05.pdf

"And finally, the encampment is the centerpiece of the wing-level Cadet Program, providing the wing with an
opportunity to boost the capabilities of its hometown cadet and composite squadrons and to standardize cadet
training within the wing, so the encampment program pursues goals for the wing’s overall Cadet Program."


(In regards to this being a "p" vs. an "r" bear in mind it was written and referred to specifically
by 52-16 as the non-optional mandated guidance document.  This was before the most recent inexplicable change to CAPR 1-2 (5-4)
which revoked the SOP of having regs refer to pamphlets for detailed guidance. )

A given wing is not charged with developing membership from a different wing or region. In point of fact, NHQ already
has a strong program for that purpose - the NCSAs, which specifically solicit participation nationally.

it also can be noted that there are currently no National, nor Regional encampments (the tri-wing not withstanding because it's another special case),
again because the encampment program is specifically intended to support a wing's cadet program in a way which empathizes local participation.

Citing anecdotal success, or special cases where a wing is unable to support its own activities doesn't change the
clear intent of the program.

(Ozzy beat me to it while I was confirming the citations.)
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Spaceman3750
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 2,531

« Reply #24 on: November 09, 2016, 12:49:16 PM »

Cadets are not a means by which we accomplish our missions. They are a mission. While we have cadet staff at a variety of levels - including encampment, and part (or most) of that staff job includes serving their followers, that service is designed to provide the cadet leader with hands-on leadership experience, not help CAP execute the cadet program.

What does this mean in this context? The argument of the "more qualified out of state cadet" doesn't work, because these staff jobs aren't looking to find the most qualified cadet to help CAP execute its mission - they look to find the most qualified cadet to be afforded a new hands-on leadership opportunity. Since each wing is responsible for the growth of their own cadets, it makes sense that preference would go to the home team.

I don't think anyone is arguing that poor local candidates should be appointed to cadet staff spots ahead of highly qualified non-local candidates - that's just a recipe for a poor student experience all around. A poor candidate is still a poor candidate. However, in cases where there is not a significant qualification disparity between a local and non-local candidate, preference should go to the cadet the wing is primarily responsible for serving.

And, just to be clear, I think that there is nothing wrong with cadets participating in out-of-wing encampments. Good on them for wanting to participate and learn more. But, there's only so many jobs to go around and if there's a similarly qualified local candidate, they shouldn't be taking opportunities away from the locals.
« Last Edit: November 09, 2016, 12:57:35 PM by Spaceman3750 » Logged
"I always wondered why somebody doesn't do something about that. Then I realized I was somebody." - Lily Tomlin
"I'm sorry sir, which tab were we on?"

The moment any commander or staff member considers themselves a gatekeeper, instead of a facilitator, they have failed at their job.
I can't fix all of CAP's problems, but I can lead from the bottom by building my squadron as a center of excellence to serve as an example of what every unit can be.
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CAP Talk  |  Cadet Programs  |  Encampments & NCSAs  |  Topic: Unit Encampment Report?
 


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