SAREX Schedules

[etodd]

I would really enjoy attending 'every' SAREX applicable to me  .... but with the average notice seeming to be a couple weeks or less ... its going to be rare that I'm able to attend. Surely I'm not the only one. Is that time frame typical nationwide? Or does it vary a lot by region or wing?

(I'll qualify the above to mention I've only been a member since last October. So maybe the short notices are a recent fluke?)

.

[Eclipse]

Yes, sadly.

The planning staff are aware and assume everyone else is as well, so they don't start sending info and
requests for resources until shortly before the activity, and then wonder why people don't show up.

Mileage varies by wing, but not by much, generally.

[Check Pilot/Tow Pilot]

Wing?

[NIN]

Yes, sadly.

The planning staff are aware and assume everyone else is as well, so they don't start sending info and
requests for resources until shortly before the activity, and then wonder why people don't show up.

Mileage varies by wing, but not by much, generally.

Its almost as if we can't be bothered to plan beyond the end of our fingertips

[Eclipse]

Its almost as if we can't be bothered to plan beyond the end of our fingertips

Whoa, there George Jetson, do think this is the future where everyone carries a
device in their pocket than keep a perpetual schedule?

Dreamer.

To be fair, as Wing ESO I made an effort to publish an Operations calendar and send out reminders
months in advance because I know what a nightmare it is personally to reserve weekends, etc.

Most people just ignored it and then complained no one said anything "lost in all the emails
about hydration, winter driving safety, and the cousin of my mailman's neighbor has a blister
on his foot emails"

I also made an effort to send things though the chain, which turned out to be the same as
sending them "through the trash" in many cases.

[etodd]

To be fair, as Wing ESO I made an effort to publish an Operations calendar and send out reminders
months in advance because I know what a nightmare it is personally to reserve weekends, etc.

My Wing has an online calendar, which many of us 'would' use ... if events were listed months ahead of time. Even if it just listed subject matter (AP, Ground Teams, etc.) with no other details than the date. At least if I knew it was a subject for me, I could keep that weekend open. Details can come a few weeks before hand. Its the 'save the date' idea that isn't being used.

.

[etodd]

I see all this as directly related to retention issues as well.  If folks can't attend most events from lack of sufficient notice.

.

[Eclipse]

I see all this as directly related to retention issues as well.  If folks can't attend most events from lack of sufficient notice.

Agreed on both sides of the house - members put their time and effort in planning and no one shows,
members get rated and don't think there is any place to use their skills.

[Al Sayre]

[rant]
As an IC and one of the guys who keeps up the wing calendar I have to throw in my $0.02.  If you need specific signoffs or training sorties, you need to let the IC or Planning Section Chief know ahead of time.  One of the biggest problems we have in planning a SAREX is not knowing who will attend or what they need, so we end up setting up a low budget plain vanilla minimal mission and then listening to everyone complain "but I came to get XYZ signed off and there's no one here to do it."

Folks, we aren't mind readers. Use your chain of command or just pick up the phone and call the POC for the SAREX and let them know what you need a month or so before (not the night before) the SAREX.  Most IC's would be ecstatic to hear your squadron is bringing 7 cadets who need GT3 sorties, 3 new Mission Scanners, 5 new MRO's etc. so they can plan accordingly.  [/rant] 

[etodd]

Folks, we aren't mind readers. Use your chain of command or just pick up the phone and call the POC for the SAREX and let them know what you need a month or so before (not the night before) the SAREX.   

Isn't that my point?  I can't call the POC for the SAREX to let them know what I need a month ahead, when my first notice of a SAREX is only 10 days out.

Details of what will be needed can come later and closer to the event.  Just knowing a few months out on a certain weekend there will be a SAREX centered on AP (for example) would be enough to ink it in on my calendar.  Then as the SAREX date approaches, when the POC needs a head count, I'd be the first to raise my hand so he can be prepared.

"Save the date" ... for such and such .... isn't too much to ask. Work out the details later.

.

[Eclipse]

[rant]
As an IC and one of the guys who keeps up the wing calendar I have to throw in my $0.02.  If you need specific signoffs or training sorties, you need to let the IC or Planning Section Chief know ahead of time.  One of the biggest problems we have in planning a SAREX is not knowing who will attend or what they need, so we end up setting up a low budget plain vanilla minimal mission and then listening to everyone complain "but I came to get XYZ signed off and there's no one here to do it."

Folks, we aren't mind readers. Use your chain of command or just pick up the phone and call the POC for the SAREX and let them know what you need a month or so before (not the night before) the SAREX.  Most IC's would be ecstatic to hear your squadron is bringing 7 cadets who need GT3 sorties, 3 new Mission Scanners, 5 new MRO's etc. so they can plan accordingly.  [/rant]

I have a few issues here, speaking as a fairly recently former Wing ESO.

ICs should not be planning SARExs - they should be day players getting their reps just like everyone else.  Hots, cots, scenarios, whitecell, training plans,
tasks, and prior to day-of call-ups are supposed to be the responsibility of the Wing ESO and ES Training officer.  The fact that in many wings the few ICs are
also wing ES staff is a problem that needs to be fixed, not a proper way of doing business.

When ICs do it they wind up working themselves into a circle and don't get their own reps in, to the detriment many times of their own proficiency.

The wing's Es staff is supposed to create a comprehensive framework and training plan annually that addresses the wing's customer's needs, which includes
soliciting the input and requesting Command direct action of downstream groups and units.

That's how it's supposed to work...

((*blink*))  ((*blink*)) Time to wake up.

Now the reality is that many times CAP-USAF doesn't provide dates for evals and guided training until 1/3rd of the way into the year, and
unless the ESO is working closely with the LR-ADO, their dates may not have any concern about other wing activities or training functions,
may conflict with other major activities, and might be in a part of the wing where no one lives.

That's why wings are supposed to be working on their FY2017 plan and dates now.  The 1-4 major wing exercises in a given year should be
on the calendar by 1 Oct for that FY, the othr stuff can fall into place behind it.

My wing generally has a major exercise in October as soon as funds are available, so they can't wait until Dec to start posting dates.

etodd has a fair point, once which does affect retention, but even when dates are posted, many CC's ignore them and just toss things at the wall with
no plan behind it, and don't inform their members.

Depending on the wing, there's plenty of blame to go around for all, starting at the very top due to NHQ' and most regions lack of publishing an annual  strategic ES
plan that has goals, expectations, and ramifications for failure to meet.  In 17 years I've never seen anything but a mission statement in terms of a "plan"
from higher then wing.

If your "plan" contains language to the effect of "we will be the best..." and doesn't contain numbers and dates, it's not a plan.

Budgets are not plans, either.

Now, with all that verbiage above, we're supposed to be a short-responder force in times of distress and disaster, real missions aren't on the calendar,
so this nonsense people spout about "I'll be there for the real ones" is just that, nonsense.  When the wing announces an exercise, change your calendar.
Sure, some people will have a work trip or their wife is in labor, but the majority are not, put your head in the game and show up like people's lives depended on it,
someday they might.

[FW]

Now the reality is that many times CAP-USAF doesn't provide dates for evals and guided training until 1/3rd of the way into the year, and
unless the ESO is working closely with the LR-ADO, their dates may not have any concern about other wing activities or training functions,
may conflict with other major activities, and might be in a part of the wing where no one lives.

That's why wings are supposed to be working on their FY2017 plan and dates now.  The 1-4 major wing exercises in a given year should be
on the calendar by 1 Oct for that FY, the othr stuff can fall into place behind it.

My wing generally has a major exercise in October as soon as funds are available, so they can't wait until Dec to start posting dates.

etodd has a fair point, once which does affect retention, but even when dates are posted, many CC's ignore them and just toss things at the wall with
no plan behind it, and don't inform their members.

Depending on the wing, there's plenty of blame to go around for all, starting at the very top due to NHQ' and most regions lack of publishing an annual  strategic ES
plan that has goals, expectations, and ramifications for failure to meet.  In 17 years I've never seen anything but a mission statement in terms of a "plan"
from higher then wing.

If your "plan" contains language to the effect of "we will be the best..." and doesn't contain numbers and dates, it's not a plan.

Budgets are not plans, either.

Now, with all that verbiage above, we're supposed to be a short-responder force in times of distress and disaster, real missions aren't on the calendar,
so this nonsense people spout about "I'll be there for the real ones" is just that, nonsense.  When the wing announces an exercise, change your calendar.
Sure, some people will have a work trip or their wife is in labor, but the majority are not, put your head in the game and show up like people's lives depended on it,
someday they might.

I find it difficult to believe we need to even have this conversation.  As Eclipse well notes, SAREX's should  be placed on the schedule prior to the fiscal year starting to insure funding. The whole process  requires command coordination and planning with staff.  Dates should be known well in advance, and staffing, notifications, and requirements published well before start date.  I never had a problem getting personnel to man slots, and recruit members ready/willing to train.  If wings can't coordinate and act on a SAREX, I really am worried for our organization.  This is a command problem, if it really exists! 

[JeffDG]

2 weeks is not normal.  In fact, regulations require that, if it's being paid for from AF funds, that the event be in WMIRS at least 3 weeks prior.  Otherwise it takes some serious grovelling by the Wing Commander or her designee (often me) to the Liaison Region folks to get approval.

Our wing has our 2016-2017 FY calendar loaded into our calendar right now.

[etodd]

Our wing has our 2016-2017 FY calendar loaded into our calendar right now.

The online calendar, or the one on someone's desk at Wing?  That may be the difference I'm seeing.

I find it difficult to believe we need to even have this conversation.  As Eclipse well notes, SAREX's should  be placed on the schedule prior to the fiscal year starting to insure funding.

Placed in the schedule at Wing level is wholly different than Wing putting it on a public  or CAP member accessible calendar.

Looks like my question has been answered.  All Wings differ.


.

[stillamarine]

Our wing has our 2016-2017 FY calendar loaded into our calendar right now.

The online calendar, or the one on someone's desk at Wing?  That may be the difference I'm seeing.

I find it difficult to believe we need to even have this conversation.  As Eclipse well notes, SAREX's should  be placed on the schedule prior to the fiscal year starting to insure funding.

Placed in the schedule at Wing level is wholly different than Wing putting it on a public  or CAP member accessible calendar.

Looks like my question has been answered.  All Wings differ.


.

^^ This. We just got notification of a sarex from wing 12 days out. I believe if there was more notice that more people would be there.


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[RiverAux]

It is just so disappointing to me that this is still an issue and there is absolutely no reason it should be.  I recognized this problem after only a year or so in CAP in the late 1990s and developing and keeping current a Wing training schedule web site was one of my earliest "big-time" CAP endeavors.  Later, as the Wing ES training officer this was still my top priority. But, even in my own Wing today notices about upcoming SAREXs are fairly sporadic. 

Of all of CAP's problems, notifying members of upcoming training opportunities is so easy and is such low-hanging fruit that it just shows how much trouble the organization is in (in so far as ES goes). 

[FW]

This is a reason why I believe it is important to have more real "Face Time" with the membership.  Electronic communication is good to a point.  Real meetings, where members actually get together can make things more personal and effective.  There needs to be a balance for things to work, IMHO.  This is very disappointing... I don't even remember the last time a real wing staff meeting or commanders call was in session (in my wing).

[JeffDG]

Our wing has our 2016-2017 FY calendar loaded into our calendar right now.

The online calendar, or the one on someone's desk at Wing?  That may be the difference I'm seeing.

http://www.tncap.us/events

[stillamarine]

Our wing has our 2016-2017 FY calendar loaded into our calendar right now.

The online calendar, or the one on someone's desk at Wing?  That may be the difference I'm seeing.

http://www.tncap.us/events

Must be nice. Our wing website is useless. It doesn't even have contact information for the directorates, nor have half of the wing staff positions identified.

[Spam]

We do have well run commanders calls probably twice a year these days around here, but a full recount of ops plans has never been on those agendas. When I was our DCP, I as a Director couldn't add my own activity info to our Wing website... OPSEC run amok, I thought.  It does seem to be a little better these days for Ops announcements around here (if not CP). Our encampments, RCLS, TLCs etc. never get posted to the NHQ or SER calendars for visibility. The last Wing cadet comp was announced three weeks before the date, and was cancelled for lack of interest (duh!).

The main remaining problem with training mission scheduling from my POV is that we've had several SAR/DREXs announced without seeking line commander inputs, sometimes on finals and graduation weeks for students, or during encampments or other planned activities (and then they complain about poor Ground Ops presence and lack of vehicles).

For Ops at least, what I have found does work is to check WMIRS regularly. I urge all Commanders and anyone who is serious about Ops to go in and see what your area staff have entered for the next FY, what has been approved, and what's been updated lately. That, friends, is the best gouge you'll get on upcoming training AFAMs, because that is what 1AF is seeing, whether someone in CAP is bothering to tell the rest of the party about it yet.

I fold what info I get down into my current units Google calendar, which I update every SUN evening with our weekly all hands call down, after a quick 5 minute coordination call with my C/CC. Then my staff does a hands on direct call of every member, reading the posted plan of the week as a guide for the call down.  Above our level, I can't impact. At our level, we post it ASAP.


V/R
Spam

[JC004]

DEWG has monthly scheduled ES training.  It's on the calendar and all.

I have, sometimes, done short-notice exercises on purpose, but usually as part of a series of exercises (with normal notice) leading up to that one. 

I have also done no-notice exercises on meeting nights.

[etodd]

I have also done no-notice exercises on meeting nights.

Thats a different story.  I was mainly talking about those SAREX that go for 2 or 3 days (weekends). Some of us working folks with families only have so much time and we have to plan ahead. I enjoy it and want to do more, but can't always jump at the last minute like many of the retirees can.

But now we are back to my OP. So I'll stop here. Its all been said that needs to be said. Maybe it'll filter on up the chain.

[Eclipse]

but can't always jump at the last minute like many of the retirees can.

Retirees? Few of the people in my wing running exercises are "retirees".

[etodd]

but can't always jump at the last minute like many of the retirees can.

Retirees? Few of the people in my wing running exercises are "retirees".

Maybe your Wing gives more notice than mine. Thats the whole point of this thread. Like I've said, its getting repetitive now, so I'll bow out. Points made and nothing left to add. I would lock it if I could. G'nite.

[Luis R. Ramos]

Eclipse,

I think he meant by the comment regarding the retirees is that the wing posts exercises at the last minute. The retirees are not the members running the exercises. The retirees are those members that respond to the late notices, and they can respond at the last minute since they are retired and do not have anything  to do.  In his case, he is not retiree so he cannot attend since he does have a family life and works.

[Eclipse]

^ Yeah, I got it - characterizing people with flexibility in their personal or professional lives as retirees
was intended as some kind of typical back-handed "something", as if only those without "real work"
to do can respond on short notice.

Increasingly professionals work from home or on the road, or anywhere, and set their own
schedules (i.e. are never "working" and never "off").

That doesn't negate the need to give members reasonable notice of activities, but
people shouldn't be resentful of those who are able to respond on short notice, or
during daytime weekday hours.

Those members are the ones doing the lion's share of the work and making the opportunities
available for others during evenings and weekends.

And with that said, "short notice" becomes subjective when your buddy calls you up and
says I have "x' tickets on the floor or in a skybox, pick you up in an hour...".

[SMWOG]

In my wing,Wing ES does not communicate with Group ES in planning of the SAREX. Its kinda like show up here or else.

[etodd]

And with that said, "short notice" becomes subjective when your buddy calls you up and
says I have "x' tickets on the floor or in a skybox, pick you up in an hour...".

Geez guy, you know thats not what I'm referring to.  There is a huge difference in dropping things to go spend 3 hours at a ballgame ... and a weekend with possible overnights where more in depth arrangements have to be made for work, spouse and family.

My question was answered on page one. All Wings are different. All Wings notify their Squadrons and members on different time frames. No nationwide standards of how calendars are to be kept. Thats all I needed to know. Thanks for those who answered. No need to continue this thread.

.

[Luis R. Ramos]

It's ALIVE!

Didn't you know it by now?

As soon as you post here, you loose control of the thread!

It acquires a life of its own!

[JeffDG]

And with that said, "short notice" becomes subjective when your buddy calls you up and
says I have "x' tickets on the floor or in a skybox, pick you up in an hour...".

Geez guy, you know thats not what I'm referring to.  There is a huge difference in dropping things to go spend 3 hours at a ballgame ... and a weekend with possible overnights where more in depth arrangements have to be made for work, spouse and family.

My question was answered on page one. All Wings are different. All Wings notify their Squadrons and members on different time frames. No nationwide standards of how calendars are to be kept. Thats all I needed to know. Thanks for those who answered. No need to continue this thread.

.

Well, except that by regulation, events must be in WMIRS 3 weeks out if they are Air Force Funded.  That's in CAPR 60-3:

(1) The CAP wing/region commander or designee prepares a WMIRS mission
request to include a detailed training scenario. Once approved by the wing or region
commander, the request is automatically forwarded to the CAP-USAF LR for approval. The
WMIRS mission request should be provided to the CAP-USAF LR as soon as feasible prior to
the activity date to allow the liaison region to find staff to attend and support the training as
necessary. WMIRS training mission requests must be available in WMIRS for the LR's
approval at least three weeks in advance of the mission start date. Waiver authority of the three
week notice requirement rests with the CAP-USAF liaison region, and requires concurrence of
the CAP wing commander. Training scenarios and requests should contain at the least the
following:

If you have any qualifications, you can see all of these mission requests in WMIRS, including the training scenarios etc.

[etodd]

Well, except that by regulation, events must be in WMIRS 3 weeks out if they are Air Force Funded.  That's in CAPR 60-3:

Yes.  A SAREX can be scheduled several months out at Wing or wherever ... and they can keep it all hush hush and wait until 21 days before to enter it into WMIRS. And then wait another week or so to start notifying Squadrons and members who may not be spending time every day searching through WMIRS to see if anything has popped up on that 3 week timeframe.

Again ... thats my point. Once a Wing puts it on their internal calendar .... the 'courteous' thing to do would be to send out a 'save the date' notice for members. Wing can still wait until the 3 week deadline to put it in WMIRS if they want to.

This isn't a difficult concept. Not sure why some folks are pushing back. Someone above has already stated 'their' Wing has the 2017 calendar up.

[JeffDG]

The other thing to note, all Wings are required to submit annual training plans, including exercises throughout the entire FY.  Those plans show up in WMIRS on October 1.

We loaded our FY2017 (Oct 2016-Sep 2017) exercises onto our calendar when we submitted out training plan to region.

[Eclipse]

Well, except that by regulation, events must be in WMIRS 3 weeks out if they are Air Force Funded.  That's in CAPR 60-3:

Yes.  A SAREX can be scheduled several months out at Wing or wherever ... and they can keep it all hush hush and wait until 21 days before to enter it into WMIRS. And then wait another week or so to start notifying Squadrons and members who may not be spending time every day searching through WMIRS to see if anything has popped up on that 3 week timeframe.

Again ... thats my point. Once a Wing puts it on their internal calendar .... the 'courteous' thing to do would be to send out a 'save the date' notice for members. Wing can still wait until the 3 week deadline to put it in WMIRS if they want to.

This isn't a difficult concept. Not sure why some folks are pushing back. Someone above has already stated 'their' Wing has the 2017 calendar up.

You know there's a chain here as well, where's your unit ESo who should be sync'ing his training cycles to meet up with Wing's exercises.

[Spaceman3750]

You know, maybe there's not a sinister cabal keeping you from attending SAREXs. Maybe local units and groups hit a critical mass of people who need sorties to qualify, so they schedule a SAREX, announce it to their people, and execute it. That could happen inside a 5-6 week timeline, easy, and you would probably never hear about it because you are not known to be in the impacted group or are not in the AOR of the ones throwing the party. As frustrating as it is, sometimes you need to speak up to your CC and say "can you help me with X?" For all of the screwed up leadership we have, most are eager to help.

[RogueLeader]

but can't always jump at the last minute like many of the retirees can.

Retirees? Few of the people in my wing running exercises are "retirees".

Maybe your Wing gives more notice than mine. Thats the whole point of this thread. Like I've said, its getting repetitive now, so I'll bow out. Points made and nothing left to add. I would lock it if I could. G'nite.

Another thing that you can do is go into WIMRS 2.0 and look at the missions entered.  They have names describing what those missions are: Annual Maintenance Flights, Annual Cadet O-Rides, SAREXs, SAREVAL, etc.  Then they have the dates of when they are.

[JeffDG]

but can't always jump at the last minute like many of the retirees can.

Retirees? Few of the people in my wing running exercises are "retirees".

Maybe your Wing gives more notice than mine. Thats the whole point of this thread. Like I've said, its getting repetitive now, so I'll bow out. Points made and nothing left to add. I would lock it if I could. G'nite.

Another thing that you can do is go into WIMRS 2.0 and look at the missions entered.  They have names describing what those missions are: Annual Maintenance Flights, Annual Cadet O-Rides, SAREXs, SAREVAL, etc.  Then they have the dates of when they are.

The only issue there is that WMIRS 2.0 mission that come from the Training Plans have a month window configured.  So, if we put in the training plan that Group 1 will have a SAREX in October, when that gets cross-loaded from the Training Plans module to WMIRS, it won't know that that SAREX is 21-23 October, it will show in WMIRS is 1-31 October.

[Eclipse]

And to be fair isn't WMIRS access limited to certain ES quals? 

[Spaceman3750]

And to be fair isn't WMIRS access limited to certain ES quals?

Nope.

[RogueLeader]

And to be fair isn't WMIRS access limited to certain ES quals?

Certain options are, but anybody can view anything uploaded.

[Eclipse]

^ Ah - maybe it was just entry / sortie creation that was the issue.

[etodd]

The only issue there is that WMIRS 2.0 mission that come from the Training Plans have a month window configured.  So, if we put in the training plan that Group 1 will have a SAREX in October, when that gets cross-loaded from the Training Plans module to WMIRS, it won't know that that SAREX is 21-23 October, it will show in WMIRS is 1-31 October.

Bingo. I'm seeing that month long spread on a couple of ours.

Yes, I guess every single member can go searching through WMIRS ... individually ... every few days ... and see if they can find something new scheduled.

Or as I've said before, when a weekend SAREX date is first set, before any details are worked out, someone at Wing or Region could simply take 30 seconds to send out an email with a Save the Date notice. I look at it as simple common courtesy. It really should not be too much to ask. I can't fathom any legitimate reasons for blowback here, when you have Wings that already have their dates listed on an accessible 2017 calendar .... any and all excuses from other Wings become mute in my mind.

Yes, its really as simple as that. (Well ... should be.)

[RogueLeader]

Another way of digging deeper, and I really wish this wasn't needed, is to go into the mission number, and look at the IAP (Incident action Plan) and see if there are dates listed.

[vento]

Just thinking out loud here

If I need a few weeks of advanced notice to participate in a SAREX, I will probably also need a few weeks of advanced notice to respond to a real ES mission. Since real ES missions are not scheduled, then most likely I won't be able to participate... hmmm

[Luis R. Ramos]

The comparison is not realistic.

Sometimes members are not allowed to participate in a SAREX or TRAEX by the company they work for, yet they would be allowed to do so in a real disaster.

Personally, I have never been able to take off work from my employer for training, NYC DOE. Any time off may be seen negatively by many school principals. However after September 11 all NYC DOE employees were given 2 days off which I used to help at a food donation company supervising cadets preparing Care packages.

[etodd]

Just thinking out loud here

If I need a few weeks of advanced notice to participate in a SAREX, I will probably also need a few weeks of advanced notice to respond to a real ES mission. Since real ES missions are not scheduled, then most likely I won't be able to participate... hmmm

Being called out for a few hours to find an ELT in a hangar, I can very often do.  No comparison at all to a 2 or 3 day SAREX, especially if it requires overnights.

[DakRadz]

"Hey boss, there's a (insert mission here) potential plane down two counties or so over and my unit needs me to respond. Can you cover our only 911 paramedic ambulance for up to my whole shift? If it's a false alarm, I'll be back ASAP."


OR


"Hey boss, there's a 3 day exercise I just found out about. Can you call someone in or cover it yourself since I work all 3 days? Nobody's dieing, but, you know, I need practice and we don't actually give advance notice. Because, no planning still works."

Regardless of the rest of the thread, regardless of your personal feelings, management will generally only respond positively to one of the above. Prior planning is considered part of my responsibility as an employee.

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