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Author Topic: PBOR2 headed to President BHO's Desk... Any likely affect on CAP pilots???  (Read 2520 times)
Live2Learn
Seasoned Member

Posts: 420

« on: July 13, 2016, 06:20:39 PM »

https://www.aopa.org/news-and-media/all-news/2015/december/09/third-class-medical-faqs?utm_source=ePilot&utm_medium=Content&utm_content=adv&utm_campaign=160712epilot

I wonder how or if CAP will consider the new criteria?  No change to 60-1 would certainly work, however how might that affect the pool of potential CAP pilots?  The AOPA article is an interesting read.
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Briank
Member

Posts: 54
Unit: GLR-OH-064

« Reply #1 on: July 13, 2016, 08:15:01 PM »

I'm interested to see too, what with my 3rd class expiring in a few months.  I'd really like to not have to shell out the $90 if I don't have to.  That's almost an hour of flight and I don't have excess money to throw around like I did in my younger days.
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JeffDG
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 3,157

« Reply #2 on: July 13, 2016, 08:40:43 PM »

I'm interested to see too, what with my 3rd class expiring in a few months.  I'd really like to not have to shell out the $90 if I don't have to.  That's almost an hour of flight and I don't have excess money to throw around like I did in my younger days.
It is highly unlikely the FAA will have the new regulations out in a few months.

The law instructs the FAA to make regulations to implement it, so no instantaneous change.  However, if the FAA drags their feet,  there is a provision that kicks in 1 year after enactment that will effectively implement the law without regulations.
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JeffDG
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Posts: 3,157

« Reply #3 on: July 13, 2016, 08:42:10 PM »

https://www.aopa.org/news-and-media/all-news/2015/december/09/third-class-medical-faqs?utm_source=ePilot&utm_medium=Content&utm_content=adv&utm_campaign=160712epilot

I wonder how or if CAP will consider the new criteria?  No change to 60-1 would certainly work, however how might that affect the pool of potential CAP pilots?  The AOPA article is an interesting read.
The devil will be in the details.

The one issue that I see is that those flying sans 3rd class cannot fly for hire or compensation.  How that fits into the exceptions in 61.113 or CAP's exemptions remains to be seen, and will depend on the FAA rulemaking.
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FW
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 2,129

« Reply #4 on: July 13, 2016, 08:59:37 PM »

Pilots flying "with" a 3rd class medical certificate can not fly for hire or compensation anyway (not counting CFI's), and I doubt the FAA would change CAP's exemptions.  From what I read, pilots will still need to see a physician every 4 years, obtaining a "pass letter" for the FAA.... All in all, nice work!
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JeffDG
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Posts: 3,157

« Reply #5 on: July 13, 2016, 09:03:12 PM »

Pilots flying "with" a 3rd class medical certificate can not fly for hire or compensation anyway (not counting CFI's), and I doubt the FAA would change CAP's exemptions.  From what I read, pilots will still need to see a physician every 4 years, obtaining a "pass letter" for the FAA.... All in all, nice work!
Well, pilots on a 3rd class cannot fly for compensation or hire, except as permitted in 61.113.

If the FAA doesn't write those same exceptions in to the no 3rd Class...for example 61.113(e):
Quote
(e) A private pilot may be reimbursed for aircraft operating expenses that are directly related to search and location operations, provided the expenses involve only fuel, oil, airport expenditures, or rental fees, and the operation is sanctioned and under the direction and control of:
(1) A local, State, or Federal agency; or
(2) An organization that conducts search and location operations.

Fuel cost reimbursement is compensation per the FAA.
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FW
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 2,129

« Reply #6 on: July 13, 2016, 09:39:29 PM »

Yep, however the CAP exemptions are for CAP MPs holding any "valid" FAA pilot license; PVT and higher...No pilot group I know of has expressed a concern about a possible change in exemptions pilots and/or organizations enjoy for "charitable flying" or CAP mission flying.  Of course, the FAA can issue whatever rules it deems necessary, so I can't disagree with your comments (I never would anyway... ;D )
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JeffDG
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Posts: 3,157

« Reply #7 on: July 13, 2016, 09:41:18 PM »

Yep, however the CAP exemptions are for CAP MPs holding any "valid" FAA pilot license; PVT and higher...No pilot group I know of has expressed a concern about a possible change in exemptions pilots and/or organizations enjoy for "charitable flying" or CAP mission flying.  Of course, the FAA can issue whatever rules it deems necessary, so I can't disagree with your comments (I never would anyway... ;D )
I don't expect the FAA to mess with it either, my comment was that the law of unintended concequences is in play, and it all depends on the FAA rulemaking.
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West_Coast_Guy
Member

Posts: 62

« Reply #8 on: March 07, 2017, 12:17:45 PM »

The search function didn't turn up another thread on this topic, so I'll tack this on here. This is from a publicly accessible NHQ Web site:

Quote
IMPORTANT: FAA Issues Final Rule – BasicMed
Good afternoon Commanders, Staff and Pilots.  As many of you are aware, the Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) announced via news release earlier today that the FAA has issued a final rule (PDF) that allows general aviation pilots to fly without holding an FAA medical certificate as long as they meet certain requirements outlined in Congressional legislation.   Beginning on May 1st, 2017, the FAA is allowing pilots to take advantage of the regulatory relief in the BasicMed rule or opt to continue to use their FAA medical certificate.  The FAA will require pilots flying under the BasicMed rule to:
-        possess a valid driver’s license;
-        have held a medical certificate at any time after July 15, 2006;
-        have not had the most recently held medical certificate revoked, suspended, or withdrawn;
-        have not had the most recent application for airman medical certification completed and denied;
-        have taken a medical education course within the past 24 calendar months;
-        have completed a comprehensive medical examination with a physician within the past 48 months;
-        be under the care of a physician for certain medical conditions;
-        have been found eligible for special issuance of a medical certificate for certain specified mental health, neurological, or cardiovascular conditions, when applicable;
-        consent to a National Driver Register check;
-        fly only certain small aircraft, at a limited altitude and speed, and only within the United States; and
-        not fly for compensation or hire.

Though we anticipate many of you will want to take advantage of this rule, before CAP pilots are allowed to do so, several things must happen:
-        CAP NHQ must now confirm with its insurance carrier that there will be no changes in coverage should we choose to implement this rule on or after the 1st of May, and also evaluate any cost changes if we do.
-        We will also need to determine if the Air Force will allow CAP pilots flying AFAMs to operate under the new rule, or will still require a Class III Medical at a minimum.
-        Finally, we will need to review the new rule closely and, based on the answers to the above issues, seek clarification to our existing FAA exemptions that we fly most of our missions under, and possibly request new exemptions depending on the answers provided by the FAA.
-        Assuming we are allowed to operate under this new FAA rule and the CAP leadership chooses to do so, we will have to make changes to Ops Quals, WMIRS, and other systems that may rely on this data prior to implementation.

There are also limitations that come with this new rule.  For example, pilots using BasicMed cannot operate an aircraft with more than six people onboard and the aircraft must not weigh more than 6,000 pounds, which would limit those that could fly our GA8s.  As we review the rules closer we may see more, and will need to build those limitations into our processes and systems.

Bottom line: To be clear, until further notice, nothing has changed in terms of CAP procedures or requirements.  FAA Medicals are still required for all CAP pilots, and will be for the foreseeable future.  Once we have answers, we will make a recommendation to the leadership for implementation or not.  Staffing this kind of change could take a long time, likely well after the 1 May FAA implementation date, so please advise your pilots to plan to get traditional medicals until advised otherwise. Thank you for your attention to this matter, and expect more to follow on this issue in the coming months ahead.
DO Staff/11 Jan 17

https://www.capmembers.com/emergency_services/aircraft_ops__staneval/hot-dov-news
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Briank
Member

Posts: 54
Unit: GLR-OH-064

« Reply #9 on: March 07, 2017, 06:40:04 PM »

At my age it's cheaper and easier to just do the 3rd class...  Insurance doesn't cover the full medical with my Doctor and it would be nearly $500 with lab work included!
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West_Coast_Guy
Member

Posts: 62

« Reply #10 on: March 07, 2017, 06:55:59 PM »

Well that's certainly a healthy price tag!

This is an issue that hasn't been brought before up in the many online discussions I've read, but it certainly sounds like it could be a problem. When I described BasicMed to my doctor a few weeks ago, he asked me to bring him a copy of the form when it is finalized. He also mentioned that it would probably be cheaper to go to a regular FAA medical examiner, but he didn't go into specifics about how much cheaper.
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Live2Learn
Seasoned Member

Posts: 420

« Reply #11 on: March 07, 2017, 07:18:44 PM »

Well that's certainly a healthy price tag!

This is an issue that hasn't been brought before up in the many online discussions I've read, but it certainly sounds like it could be a problem. When I described BasicMed to my doctor a few weeks ago, he asked me to bring him a copy of the form when it is finalized. He also mentioned that it would probably be cheaper to go to a regular FAA medical examiner, but he didn't go into specifics about how much cheaper.

I don't yet have a dog in this fight since I need a 2nd class.  That said, I've heard talk from other pilots who've mentioned the 'BasicMed' option to their regular physicians and didn't get a warm, "Sure, no problem" sort of reception.  I think if or when I might need just a 3rd class I might just use my AME for both personal and the 'Basic Med' stuff.  An FAA friend told me he's recently discussed 'Basic Med' with some FAA flight surgeons, who mentioned a  need to "do some training" for physicians so they know what is expected of them.  I'm sure that will go over well... :)
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FW
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 2,129

« Reply #12 on: March 07, 2017, 08:52:56 PM »

Some of the organizations I fly for have made it clear pilots must have, at least, a 3rd class medical certificate to continue flying under their FAA exemptions and insurance.  Some have said the "Basic Med" will be ok.  I don't see CAP changing the requirements.
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West_Coast_Guy
Member

Posts: 62

« Reply #13 on: March 07, 2017, 09:53:45 PM »

Some of the organizations I fly for have made it clear pilots must have, at least, a 3rd class medical certificate to continue flying under their FAA exemptions and insurance.  Some have said the "Basic Med" will be ok.  I don't see CAP changing the requirements.

As far as CAP is concerned, I am going to take them at their word that they are considering it, and just wait and see what they decide.

My crystral ball has been on the fritz lately - in fact, I'm not sure that it ever did work worth a darn!  ;)
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Panzerbjorn
Seasoned Member

Posts: 267
Unit: MER-NC-048

« Reply #14 on: March 08, 2017, 08:24:39 AM »

Talking to a local DPE here, it's sounding to me that it's actually going to be more difficult to get your "medical" under BasicMed than it would be just going to a some AME and getting a third class.  I'm also fully expecting the USAF to demand at least a third Class Medical at minimum just like they do for all their pilots. 

If $90 to go get a flight Medical once every two or five years is a financial burden, then, and pardon my frankness, you can't afford to fly. 
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Major
Command Pilot
Ground Branch Director
Eagle Scout
jeders
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 1,989

« Reply #15 on: March 08, 2017, 09:48:14 AM »

If $90 to go get a flight Medical once every two or five years is a financial burden, then, and pardon my frankness, you can't afford to fly.

It's not the $150.00 every couple of years that BasicMed is meant to help alleviate. It's the thousands of dollars spent on multiple doctors and specialists because the AME screwed up or claimed that a pilot had a serious medical condition when the pilot in fact did not have anything more serious than 70% of the people walking the earth every day.
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If you are confident in you abilities and experience, whether someone else is impressed is irrelevant. - Eclipse
West_Coast_Guy
Member

Posts: 62

« Reply #16 on: March 08, 2017, 10:50:32 AM »

If $90 to go get a flight Medical once every two or five years is a financial burden, then, and pardon my frankness, you can't afford to fly.

It's not the $150.00 every couple of years that BasicMed is meant to help alleviate. It's the thousands of dollars spent on multiple doctors and specialists because the AME screwed up or claimed that a pilot had a serious medical condition when the pilot in fact did not have anything more serious than 70% of the people walking the earth every day.

I've also heard that when a medical application gets deferred, the FAA is very slow to make a decision (i.e., months), especially for pilots who are not flying for a living.
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jeders
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 1,989

« Reply #17 on: March 08, 2017, 04:02:49 PM »

If $90 to go get a flight Medical once every two or five years is a financial burden, then, and pardon my frankness, you can't afford to fly.

It's not the $150.00 every couple of years that BasicMed is meant to help alleviate. It's the thousands of dollars spent on multiple doctors and specialists because the AME screwed up or claimed that a pilot had a serious medical condition when the pilot in fact did not have anything more serious than 70% of the people walking the earth every day.

I've also heard that when a medical application gets deferred, the FAA is very slow to make a decision (i.e., months), especially for pilots who are not flying for a living.

Try years.
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If you are confident in you abilities and experience, whether someone else is impressed is irrelevant. - Eclipse
Live2Learn
Seasoned Member

Posts: 420

« Reply #18 on: March 09, 2017, 12:30:51 AM »

If $90 to go get a flight Medical once every two or five years is a financial burden, then, and pardon my frankness, you can't afford to fly.

Now, was the cost of the 3rd class really why strenuous efforts were made to create a work around?   :o   FWIW, the cost in this area is closer to $120 every two years (or five if under 40).  About the cost of 20 gallons of avgas.  Didn't a prior AOPA guy say "if you're healthy enough for a driver license you are healthy enough to fly..." 

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coudano
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 1,110

« Reply #19 on: April 02, 2017, 10:05:46 PM »

...bump...

May 1st is coming right up...
Anybody seen any word on this?

I've actually been getting the question from my pilots.
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CAP Talk  |  Operations  |  Aviation & Flying Activities  |  Topic: PBOR2 headed to President BHO's Desk... Any likely affect on CAP pilots???
 


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