ABU Green Fleece Jacket Cadet NCO and Airman Insigna

Started by Spartan 92458-37017-EB, July 12, 2016, 04:56:03 PM

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Spartan 92458-37017-EB

With the transition to the ABU's, we are also getting the Green Fleece Jacket. We've seen from the transition letter that the jacket is very simplified in the sense that it has only the name tape, CAP tape, and cloth insignia. Well if all are allowed to wear to wear it, how will Cadet NCO's(myself a C/CMSgt) and airman be able to wear our insignia if we don't have a cloth form? Is vanguard creating new cloth insignia for Cadet NCO's and Airman? Or do we just place or metal chevrons the dark blue cloth, Just a lil confused

Okayish Aviator

That's a very excellent question. One that probably needs to be forwarded up the chain of command.

That said, in the past, for Gor-Tex you just pinned it on, but for the fleece it may be a bit different. I'm not sure there would be cloth cadet ranks made since cadets tend to progress through the NCO ranks so quickly. It may be a good idea to get some blank cloth and create a patch that would work so you could pin the metal rank to that, but I would suggest getting an answer from higher up BEFORE doing anything. Don't do anything without approval, uniform wise.
Always give 100%, unless you're giving blood.


Eclipse

You don't wear it until such time as wear instructions are provided.

"That Others May Zoom"

kwe1009

I would refer to CAPM 39-1 6.1.12 which refers to the black fleece.  In 6.1.12.3.2 it says that cadet NCO/Airman will wear the metal rank on ultramarine blue material.  It would be a very safe bet that the same direction will be for the green fleece with the exception of the cloth color.   I would still recommend sending this up your chain of command before making any purchases.

Vanguard sells this cloth tab in both blue colors for cadet NCO/Airman but they don't sell it for the fleece that I could find.  In fact it doesn't look like Vanguard sells any rank of any background color for the fleece.  So you will have to source a patch of the dark blue material to put your metal NCO/Airman rank one.  Cadet and Senior Officers can simply add velcro to the back on the extra rank they end up with since they have to buy a pair and only put 1 on the cap. SM NCOs have to figure out something else since they can't legally get the rank created anywhere but Vanguard and they are not selling it that I can see.  You can't use the rank for the Gortex becuase it has "CAP" on it as well and that is not authorized on the fleece (black or green).

Quote from: DocJekyll on July 12, 2016, 05:55:51 PM
That said, in the past, for Gor-Tex you just pinned it on, but for the fleece it may be a bit different.

Not quite, there is a tab with "CAP" embroidered on it that the cadet NCO/Airman rank is supposed to be attached to. 

ProdigalJim

^^^^^^

The Vanguard folks told me they intend to stock those square velcroed tabs for the green fleece, and that the only reason they're not available now is because it's summer and a fleece shouldn't yet be necessary. They were slammed with orders and got behind and therefore made the decision to focus on immediate needs now. The Vanguard rep told me the tabs will be available by the Fall.
Jim Mathews, Lt. Col., CAP
VAWG/XP
My Mitchell Has Four Digits...

JC004

I have experimented and made a blank square, then tested it, using my fleece.

By the way, the frogs are a total pain.  They don't go all the way through.  You will need to wear them BETWEEN the Velcro layers.  The flat frogs may be best for this, as things stand right now.

I can provide some more such insignia to those interested, at a good rate.  (I CAN ONLY make a LIMITED number at this time)

I can also sew black fleeces for SMs (or cadets overweight/18+).  I use top quality, brand name Velcro - industrial strength.  Good stuff.

(LARGER SIZE)

Abby.L

Quote from: JC004 on August 05, 2016, 04:59:22 PM
I have experimented and made a blank square, then tested it, using my fleece.

By the way, the frogs are a total pain.  They don't go all the way through.  You will need to wear them BETWEEN the Velcro layers.  The flat frogs may be best for this, as things stand right now.

I can provide some more such insignia to those interested, at a good rate.  (I CAN ONLY make a LIMITED number at this time)

I can also sew black fleeces for SMs (or cadets overweight/18+).  I use top quality, brand name Velcro - industrial strength.  Good stuff.

(LARGER SIZE)
I'm surprised by how good the green fleece looks with the blue. Shame I'm in AZ...
Capt Abby R. Lockling
SSgt(Sep) USAF, 41ECS
Charlie flight, NBB 2013

SarDragon

Quote from: JC004 on August 05, 2016, 04:59:22 PM
I have experimented and made a blank square, then tested it, using my fleece.

By the way, the frogs are a total pain.  They don't go all the way through.  You will need to wear them BETWEEN the Velcro layers.  The flat frogs may be best for this, as things stand right now.

I can provide some more such insignia to those interested, at a good rate.  (I CAN ONLY make a LIMITED number at this time)

I can also sew black fleeces for SMs (or cadets overweight/18+).  I use top quality, brand name Velcro - industrial strength.  Good stuff.

Re: frogs - Stick the pins through, and then carefully bend them over with needle nose pliers. No frogs needed.
Dave Bowles
Maj, CAP
AT1, USN Retired
50 Year Member
Mitchell Award (unnumbered)
C/WO, CAP, Ret

Майор Хаткевич

Quote from: SarDragon on August 05, 2016, 08:35:05 PM
Quote from: JC004 on August 05, 2016, 04:59:22 PM
I have experimented and made a blank square, then tested it, using my fleece.

By the way, the frogs are a total pain.  They don't go all the way through.  You will need to wear them BETWEEN the Velcro layers.  The flat frogs may be best for this, as things stand right now.

I can provide some more such insignia to those interested, at a good rate.  (I CAN ONLY make a LIMITED number at this time)

I can also sew black fleeces for SMs (or cadets overweight/18+).  I use top quality, brand name Velcro - industrial strength.  Good stuff.

Re: frogs - Stick the pins through, and then carefully bend them over with needle nose pliers. No frogs needed.

Not a good option for cadets...

SarDragon

Why not? Pass 'em around just like they do with other rank insignia. One purchase outfits two cadets.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Tapatalk

Dave Bowles
Maj, CAP
AT1, USN Retired
50 Year Member
Mitchell Award (unnumbered)
C/WO, CAP, Ret

Майор Хаткевич

Quote from: SarDragon on August 05, 2016, 08:43:17 PM
Why not? Pass 'em around just like they do with other rank insignia. One purchase outfits two cadets.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Tapatalk

I've seen zero members in a fleece, some in pictures who are local, but not any cadets. In units that upgrade cadet grade...not an option. Plus...that's a set of grade ruined almost every 3-4 months on average.

SarDragon

Quote from: Капитан Хаткевич on August 05, 2016, 09:04:28 PM
Quote from: SarDragon on August 05, 2016, 08:43:17 PM
Why not? Pass 'em around just like they do with other rank insignia. One purchase outfits two cadets.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Tapatalk

I've seen zero members in a fleece, some in pictures who are local, but not any cadets. In units that upgrade cadet grade...not an option. Plus...that's a set of grade ruined almost every 3-4 months on average.

It's an idea, not a mandate. Like it - do it. Don't like - don't do.

As for the bolded part above, why not. That's why I said pass 'em around. They will belong to the unit, and get traded from person to person.
Dave Bowles
Maj, CAP
AT1, USN Retired
50 Year Member
Mitchell Award (unnumbered)
C/WO, CAP, Ret

Abby.L

Quote from: Капитан Хаткевич on August 05, 2016, 09:04:28 PM
Quote from: SarDragon on August 05, 2016, 08:43:17 PM
Why not? Pass 'em around just like they do with other rank insignia. One purchase outfits two cadets.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Tapatalk

I've seen zero members in a fleece, some in pictures who are local, but not any cadets. In units that upgrade cadet grade...not an option. Plus...that's a set of grade ruined almost every 3-4 months on average.

I think he means, like, passing the rank with the velcro tab on through the cadets, so that then, when they promote, they turn in their regular pair, and then the tab pair along with that. As long as there's enough velcro-pinned rank to be proportionally distributed... Shouldn't ruin any rank.

Cadet promotes, receives pair of insignia for blues/utes and one velcro tabbed insignia for the ABU fleece. Trades that full set in next time he promotes. Everyone's happy.
Capt Abby R. Lockling
SSgt(Sep) USAF, 41ECS
Charlie flight, NBB 2013

SarDragon

OBTW, they aren't ruined when you do this. If you use the same needle nose pliers to straighten the pin, they are as good as new. I did this frequently with my Navy crows, and they survived well. this isn't something you want to do often, but one or two bend and straighten evolutions won't do any harm. The trick is to avoid sharp bends. In this application, bending the pins over in a curve, like you get with staples, is the desired effect.
Dave Bowles
Maj, CAP
AT1, USN Retired
50 Year Member
Mitchell Award (unnumbered)
C/WO, CAP, Ret

Garibaldi

Quote from: SarDragon on August 05, 2016, 10:48:23 PM
OBTW, they aren't ruined when you do this. If you use the same needle nose pliers to straighten the pin, they are as good as new. I did this frequently with my Navy crows, and they survived well. this isn't something you want to do often, but one or two bend and straighten evolutions won't do any harm. The trick is to avoid sharp bends. In this application, bending the pins over in a curve, like you get with staples, is the desired effect.

I dunno...some of the insignia pins break if you look at them funny.
Still a major after all these years.
ES dude, leadership ossifer, publik affaires
Opinionated and wrong 99% of the time about all things

SarDragon

Pays yer money; takes yer chances. My experience with the pins on Cadet and officer rank from Vanguard has been really good. It's mostly a matter of technique.
Dave Bowles
Maj, CAP
AT1, USN Retired
50 Year Member
Mitchell Award (unnumbered)
C/WO, CAP, Ret

JC004

#16
Quote from: Капитан Хаткевич on August 05, 2016, 09:04:28 PM
Quote from: SarDragon on August 05, 2016, 08:43:17 PM
Why not? Pass 'em around just like they do with other rank insignia. One purchase outfits two cadets.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Tapatalk

I've seen zero members in a fleece, some in pictures who are local, but not any cadets. In units that upgrade cadet grade...not an option. Plus...that's a set of grade ruined almost every 3-4 months on average.

Probably because the Air Force didn't supply any, and because the memo only kicked in on June 15, leaving most of the country in hot weather...

...also because until June, cadets under weight limits and under 18 were not ALLOWED to wear them (black is a corporate combo).

I am ACTIVELY encouraging cadets (and seniors) at the unit to get one, so they have an AUTHORIZED, fairly inexpensive jacket for fall (SOON!) and winter. 

If some unit wants me to make a bunch of Velcro blue squares that they can pass around, I can do that... 

I may even be able to get the fleece locally at a discounted price (green or black - whichever you want).
Send me a message.

If you want a blank rank square, message me SOON because I only have a VERY limited amount right now.


By the way, this is what the black fleece for corporate uniforms looks like with dark blue (sooooooooooooo much better than ultramarine on the black):


Ultramarine (GAG!):


USACAP

With the Army dumping this shade of green fleece in favor of coyote for the new OCP uniforms, these fleeces should be plentiful and cheap.

abdsp51

Quote from: USACAP on August 15, 2016, 06:16:54 PM
With the Army dumping this shade of green fleece in favor of coyote for the new OCP uniforms, these fleeces should be plentiful and cheap.

AF still wears it. 

RazorbackPride

Quote from: abdsp51 on August 16, 2016, 01:21:48 AM
Quote from: USACAP on August 15, 2016, 06:16:54 PM
With the Army dumping this shade of green fleece in favor of coyote for the new OCP uniforms, these fleeces should be plentiful and cheap.

AF still wears it.

Still, that's literally over a million sage jackets no longer usable for the soldiers who have them.