How are Squadron Commanders Selected?

[THRAWN]

In every unit I have been in, the first choice for a new commander is somebody who is in the unit.
Having Group/Wing appoint an "outsider" is usually not a good sign.

I'll attest to that. I was a Group CPO and was asked to take over a squadron within that group. Definitely not a good sign. An even worse sign - it was "effective Tuesday" and the current squadron commander was told only 5 minutes after I accepted - on Sunday.

Sounds familiar. I was on wing ES staff and got a call from a group commander who said "Didn't you just buy a house near XXX squadron? I need a new commander..." That was Friday, I got my signed 2A on Sunday and my first meeting was Monday....

Where is said XXX Squadron....sounds like fun. 

Behave yourself.....Marines...sheesh....lol

[Майор Хаткевич]

It happens. Sometimes a unit is in a rebuild stage, the current CC has to move/job changed/etc, and an outsider has to come in. Most of the time (hopefully), there are people known to the Unit/Group who could step up if necessary.

[LTC Don]

Trial by combat.

Loser is appointed.

Rock, paper, scissors

More like......Thunderdome!


But the classic of all time still works:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AphxyjrH4SE

[THRAWN]

Trial by combat.

Loser is appointed.

Rock, paper, scissors

More like......Thunderdome!


But the classic of all time still works:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AphxyjrH4SE

And that makes me think of this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I5n28hpMFBE

[LSW]

@ Storm Chaser - Thanks for the input from the command side.

The uniform question is valid I suppose, some of us only have Corporate, I can see a commander needing more though. They are not cheap and needing one for your job ok... getting one to get the job and not get it, not so much. B eing ex-military, I just sort of expected squadron commander processes to be more uniform and not so "Whatever someone feels like". I still have to get used to this "Civilian Volunteer Organization in Military Organization's clothing" idea through my head.

Cheers!

[Spam]

This is a really good subject, and can make or break the entire CAP experience for a big number of people, depending on how we do it. I agree that we don't have this process well defined, in the main.


My experiences are varied:

I was CDC for a FLWG unit (South Brevard) late 80s, when the CC up and quit in a huff. He literally flung the keys to the first guy on the spot, a new 2LT. When I arrived ten minutes later, said 2LT had announced to all that he was the new Commander (shades of Al "I'm in charge here" Haig there). After taking him aside to counsel restraint, we called the Group/CC... and I later agreed that he'd be the right candidate.

Early 90s (after a second Deputy tour in SCWG) I moved to St. Louis, and checked into the local VHF net my second night there. The local GP/CC heard me, spoke with me on air, and asked me to call her, and then to meet her and her deputy for dinner with my record jacket - which turned into a job interview/arm twisting exercise. I was told, "if you don't take command, we will shut down this troubled unit, whose CO just doesn't have the time" (St. Louis Comp. 1). A year and a half later, those wonderful people had earned a Unit Citation for sustained performance during a major DR event while exceeding our goals for advancement and training. I handed over to my deputy, whom was one of three candidates I'd identified for the GP/CC when my PCS was coming up.

Next CC tour, at St. Marys Comp Sqdn (NAS Pax River, MD), I was one of a couple of likely candidates interviewed by the GP/CC in an orderly fashion, as both of us were recommended by the outgoing Sqdn/CC. That unit had/has a great stable of active duty officers/NCOs and Navy engineers to choose from, so the process was stable, smooth and professional.

Next CC tour, back at my home cadet unit, Sandy Springs Cadet Sqdn., GAWG, it was again a smooth rotation between one of the several long service, professional aerospace/pilot/engineer, all GTL/GBD former cadet types (we seem to rotate it every four years between four or five guys over the past 30 years). The scissor/paper/stone rule seems to apply there, and we simply let the GP/CC know who is next in the barrel, which promotes continuity. I'm on my second command rotation here now, after a brief tour as a Group/CC and then as a Wing DCP. We do welcome outside pollination (e.g. Garibaldi), but he told me WED night, "dude, no way I'm taking it, I just want to stay a Deputy"!   

I feel that my personal experiences may be atypical, since as a defense engineering type I tend to relocate to areas with personnel who are fairly well trained/experienced with military style and aerospace organizations. Over the years, I have counseled and assisted a number of struggling units through command selections and swaps where we've made the best possible choice given available less experienced candidates, but usually my style has been to:

1. Start with the records (training/attendance/currency/ES/etc.) as an initial screen for quals.
2. Speak with the outgoing CC to ask for recommendations.
3. Speak with my higher (Wing/CC, CV, etc.) to get any insights.
4. Do an analysis of where the unit stands (membership/performance in all 3 missions, etc.)
5. Set threshold minimum criteria for the command spot (i.e. I may accept lower quals in a unit with lots of old hands to help, but may need more experience and/or commitment from a brand new member candidate if we're to keep a new/small unit viable).
6. Announce the minimum criteria within the unit, and within the Group if appropriate (e.g. I sought out three local area candidates only after interviewing likely internal candidates, in an attempt to save one minimally staffed unit whose internal officers had the experience but not the time to command effectively, by their own admission).
7. Rack and stack the candidates by the criteria, and interview them (ideally, with a couple of other senior staff present - I used my Group/DO, a senior pilot, and my Group Deputy).
8. Accept bribes (just kidding). But, if you see me at the BOQ bar, I like single malts, hint hint. 
9. Submit the RECOMMENDATION to the Wing Commander. Note the CAPM 20-1 job responsibilities inherent: Group CCs shouldn't be hiring/firing, as the Form 27 is signed at Wing level. This is similar to tasking Cadet Commanders to submit recommended Cadet Staff rosters to unit commanders for action.
10. Thank the applicants, announce the appointment, fill the paperwork, and arrange the passing of the colors to honor the outgoing Commander, as is his right.
11. Monitor closely to make sure you didn't screw up royally, offer an open door for advice (command can be lonely), and step in only where needed to adjust performance or preserve safety margin.


So, you may hear of contentious or totally random job swaps. I had to broker/mediate some as a Group/CC right as mandatory Commander term limits came in, which caused a lot of hurt feelings among some of the units "led" by local cults of personality. One guy (11 year term, failing unit with ~5 active members) refused to return my contacts, and simply handed command to his wife (and took FM from her...ulp!) without copying me.  Another refused to give me any recommendations for his relief, claiming he was "indispensable". Those very attitudes were, to me, the indication that a rotation was necessary, and that the Unit Commanders Course is an absolute necessity for well run units.  I came to feel in some instances less like a Group Commander and more like T.E. Lawrence, mediating between contentious warring Arab tribes...


In closing, I'd like to recommend that anyone even remotely interested in command ask - nay, DEMAND, that your Wing plan, staff, and execute a UCC to regularize not just selection, but also all command processes. A little investment in that UCC curriculum can turn massive rewards for your unit and your personal job satisfaction.  To me, small unit command is the best job around - when properly planned for via a succession plan and when people are trained into the job ahead of time.

V/R
Spam
"Line over staff any day Sir"!

[LSW]

@ Spam - Gee, thanks for reminding me why I did not want to extend my membership after my first year... CAP is so Chaotic it is amazing that it works at all.

A. Dress ground teams in 1980's BDU's so we cannot see them from the air.
B. No BDU floppy hats because it looks military... while the military uniform, military issue camo hat and military rank don't look military?
C. No weapons, Delaware, Michigan, Virginia, Long Island etc. all have a danger factor rarely noticeable, OK no weapons needed except for rabid squirrels maybe. Western states have bears and mountain lions etc. and Alaska has really big bears and moose. A University of Alaska professor on a field trip with students was mauled by a bear this spring... weapons would be a good idea. But NO, no weapons allowed, but you can get a NRA rifle award through CAP.
D. No knives visible and only 6" in length. So while a Grizzly eats my cadet's face. I can waste time trying to pull a little 6" blade from under all my gear to attack it with due to the no gun rule. Whoopee!
E. The new cadet protection rules seem to be heading towards not having adults around cadets.
F. How many units even really have NCOs? We are officer-centric which is really strange for ex-military.

Thanks for your input.

New question then... is a squadron commander position automatically terminated after 'X' years or can a commander do multiple stints as commander in a role?

Inquiring minds want to know...

Cheers!

[Eclipse]

@ Spam - Gee, thanks for reminding me why I did not want to extend my membership after my first year...

1 - This isn't Twitter, we don't do that here.

2 - Why do you care if you aren't a member?

3 - The majority of the rest of your numbered comments show a misunderstanding or mis-characterization of the situation.

4 - See #2.

[THRAWN]

@ Spam - Gee, thanks for reminding me why I did not want to extend my membership after my first year... CAP is so Chaotic it is amazing that it works at all.

A. Dress ground teams in 1980's BDU's so we cannot see them from the air.
B. No BDU floppy hats because it looks military... while the military uniform, military issue camo hat and military rank don't look military?
C. No weapons, Delaware, Michigan, Virginia, Long Island etc. all have a danger factor rarely noticeable, OK no weapons needed except for rabid squirrels maybe. Western states have bears and mountain lions etc. and Alaska has really big bears and moose. A University of Alaska professor on a field trip with students was mauled by a bear this spring... weapons would be a good idea. But NO, no weapons allowed, but you can get a NRA rifle award through CAP.
D. No knives visible and only 6" in length. So while a Grizzly eats my cadet's face. I can waste time trying to pull a little 6" blade from under all my gear to attack it with due to the no gun rule. Whoopee!
E. The new cadet protection rules seem to be heading towards not having adults around cadets.
F. How many units even really have NCOs? We are officer-centric which is really strange for ex-military.

Thanks for your input.

New question then... is a squadron commander position automatically terminated after 'X' years or can a commander do multiple stints as commander in a role?

Inquiring minds want to know...

Cheers!

This post was hysterical. Mainly for the poorly worded diatribe, but mostly for the lack of knowledge of the frequency of wild animal attacks in the "wilds" of North America. This is from a Science Daily article from 2011: "In an article published in the Journal of Wildlife Management, University of Calgary professor emeritus Dr. Stephen Herrero, University of Calgary graduate Andrew Higgins, and colleagues from the Massachusetts Division of Fisheries and Wildlife and Brigham Young University analyzed the circumstances of all recorded deaths inflicted by non-captive black bears in North America between 1900 and 2009. The study found that 63 people were killed in 59 incidents in Canada, Alaska and the lower 48 states." That's 63 people in 109 years. You have a better chance of being robbed by a hedgehog. Next, like my esteemed colleague in the west stated, why do you care? You quit before you could be a part of the solution to any of your self-described problems. Want to contribute? Renew and propose solutions OR maybe keep your smilebones together for a bit and find out why some things are the way they are....

To answer your question, it depends on many factors. None of which impact you in any manner...

[Spam]

<Sigh>

R/
Spam

[LSW]

1)  Since when is "@" a problem in a forum to specify when a post is for a specific member, your the first one to ever complain in forums I go to. And what does Twitter have to do with anything here?

2)  I am a Senior Member, I would not be writing here if I were not. I did almost drop out.

3)  Mis-characterization is your personal opinion, you misunderstand. These are issues I do not agree with based on what I have been told by senior members training me.

Are suggesting that weapons are allowed? Knives can be carried on the outside of web gear? Blades can be over 6 inches long? Do we have lots of NCO's and my squadron is the only one that does not? BDU floppy hats are allowed? Which of these facts are wrong Eclipse?


As for THRAWN, did you miss the part about the professor being mauled by a bear this spring, as in spring of 2016? Did I say killed? More people are mauled than killed, killed was your choice for statistics , not mine. I don't know where you both live but bears are common in Alaska, I live just short of a National Park and having wolves, bears and coyote walk down my street in not uncommon. Bear attacks in Alaska are not uncommon. Places we would take are cadets are in bear habitat. Shall I have me wife get you the professor's email and you can send him your statistics about how unlikely he was to be killed, I am sure it will be just as hysterical as my post is to you.

My apologies if you failed to catch the tongue in cheek humor and disprove of my suggestion a bear may eat a cadets face... rather than the official terminology, allow me to fix that:

D. No knives visible and only 6" in length. So while a Grizzly mauls one of my cadets, I can waste time trying to pull a little 6" blade from under all my gear to attack it with due to the no gun rule. Whoopee!

My apology if it did not sit well with your statistics. I will be sure to  be sure not to suggest that bears are dangerous in Alaska, I am sure Alaskans will sleep better knowing that.

May 2016: http://www.adn.com/alaska-news/2016/05/18/juneau-man-says-hes-grateful-to-be-alive-after-brown-bear-mauling/
June 2016: http://www.adn.com/alaska-news/wildlife/2016/06/09/man-may-have-been-mauled-by-a-bear-in-an-anchorage-attack-initially-reported-as-a-stabbing/

The State of Alaska even suggests firearms or other forms of defense: http://www.adfg.alaska.gov/index.cfm?adfg=livingwithbears.bearcountry

Maybe someone from Anchorage can explain how dangerous Moose are as well at up to 1,200 pounds when upset. They can often be found in residential areas in Anchorage.

As for the reasons for the rules. The knife rule I understand was due to a senior member being highlighted in a news broadcast wearing cowboy boots and what I have heard described as a "war crimes knife" or "Rambo knife". The weapons rule makes sense on the east coast and many other states with fairly tame wildlife, but does not seem to take into consideration states with real wild life. I can only guess that they did not even consider Alaska when they made the decision if none are from here or visit here often.

Lastly I am still a member because I decided to see if I can help make changes one day when/if I get to higher ranks.

So can we now get on with this thread or would the two of you like to continue whining about my choice of words and writing style? I was specifically talking to Spam at the time.

[Luis R. Ramos]

He is probably mentioning the attack on Forest Wagner by a female bear with two cubs on April or so. See http://www.usnews.com/news/us/articles/2016-04-19/alaska-university-teacher-in-hospital-after-bear-mauled-him

Mr Wagner was in charge of a group of 11 students and 2 student assistants.

On a later article it says that Mr Wagner stated he was skiing, and he may have landed too close to mama bear and one of the cubs.

The article also added that after Wagner was airlifted out, mama bear returned to the group of students and rescuers. She was killed.

How many times we will encounter a mama bear with cubs in a mission? Don't we teach how to behave in the wild?

Do we run into animals? While searching, don't we use attraction techniques?

Making noises? So that our target know we are there?

Making noises... So that bears and another animals know we are there and scare them?

[Luis R. Ramos]

I am also annoyed with the use of @ when referring to a person.

In this forum, if you are addressing a single person, you do not have to type @Spam. Just Spam will do. Why do you want to type extra characters?

The State of Alaska also says to stay away of wild animals.

[LSW]

Yes we do teach our cadets how to act and most Alaskan's do teach their kids. We live close to the glacier and Salmon spawning stream they fish in. Not to mention when have you seen teenagers, cadet or not be quiet in the woods?

And as you say, accidents happen, he did not intentionally land where he landed. In our area I meet up with mama bears with cubs 25% of the time I take me dogs out. Chances of bumping into a mama and cubs on a mission, high, out the road we maybe even meet a grizzly. If a tourist chopper goes down around the ice field, chances of a mama bear meeting goes up.

I am not just spouting things like "Fear the evil man killing wolves" that have no statistics to really back up the claim. Bear attacks here and up north and Moose attacks around Anchorage are solid concerns in these communities.

Luis - Point taken if others feel that way, I will avoid it.

[LSW]

My latest question still stands:

Is the roles of the squadron commander a 1 term deal or can they remain in command for multiple terms?

Thank you.

[LSThiker]

D. No knives visible and only 6" in length. So while a Grizzly mauls one of my cadets, I can waste time trying to pull a little 6" blade from under all my gear to attack it with due to the no gun rule. Whoopee!

My apology if it did not sit well with your statistics. I will be sure to  be sure not to suggest that bears are dangerous in Alaska, I am sure Alaskans will sleep better knowing that

While bear fatalities in Alaska are 3.5 times higher than the rest of the US, they are still uncommon.  There are thousands of bear encounters each year.  The exact number is unknown due to a difficult method to track and a lack of definition.  However, the number of bear attacks is still low, even for Alaska.

The use of firearms have been banned in CAP for a variety of reasons, although we did use them at one point.  Mostly, they caused more self harm than anything else.

The State of Alaska even suggests firearms or other forms of defense: http://www.adfg.alaska.gov/index.cfm?adfg=livingwithbears.bearcountry

Read your link again.  They do not suggest firearms.  Rather they suggest deterrents, which include bear spray and firearms.  But as they state:

but should never be used as an alternative to common-sense approaches to bear encounters.

Within the firearms section, they even imply the discouraging use of firearms as they can be "difficult to successfully deploy" and that a "wounded bear can be a great threat". 

If you are inexperienced with a firearm, it can be difficult to successfully deploy in emergency situations. Additionally, a wounded bear can be a greater threat to human safety. A .300-Magnum rifle or a 12-gauge shotgun with rifled slugs are appropriate weapons if you have to shoot a bear. Heavy handguns such as a .44-Magnum may be inadequate in emergency situations, especially in untrained hands.

The US Fish and Wildlife recommends bear spray over firearms:
http://www.bearsmart.com/docs/BearSprayVsBullets.pdf

Wrangall-St Elias NP also states:

Firearms
Firearms are allowed in Wrangell-St. Elias, but should never be used as an alternative to a common-sense approach to bear encounters. You are allowed to carry a concealed weapon in the park. However, you cannot carry a firearm into a federal building. A rifle of at least .30 caliber or a 12-gauge shotgun with slugs is recommended as defense against a bear. Alaska law makes provisions for shooting a bear in self defense if there is no alternative and if the attack was unprovoked. If you are inexperienced, you are more likely to be injured by a gun than a bear, and any misplaced shot may enrage the bear further, prolonging an attack. We generally recommend that hikers carry bear spray rather than a firearm. Although firearms ARE allowed in Wrangell-St. Elias National Park & Preserve, it is illegal to carry firearms in some of Alaska's other national parks, so check before you go.

Denali NP states:

Contrary to the belief of some, firearms are not needed for protection from bears, and studies have shown that pepper spray may actually be more effective in preventing a bear attack than firearms. Any shooting of an animal by non-subsistence users of the park must be immediately reported to park rangers who will conduct a thorough criminal investigation. The State of Alaska's Defense of Life and Property (DLP) regulation does not apply within Denali National Park and there is no DLP regulation in federal law.

Experts in bear encounters and attacks also recommend bear spray over firearms.

Bottom line, carry bear spray in the event of a bear encounter.  CAP does not ban bear spray. 

Is the roles of the squadron commander a 1 term deal or can they remain in command for multiple terms?

There is no term-limits for Squadron Commanders unless set by your wing. 

Oops thinking wrong.  strike that.  Yes 1-term limit.

[Eclipse]

Is the roles of the squadron commander a 1 term deal or can they remain in command for multiple terms?

1 term and they may not succeed themselves.

In the future, if you want legit answers to a legit question, your best best is not to hide the question inside
statements which are mischaracterizations of the program, or intend to troll harder then ask.

You've now made a number of off-hand statements which seem to indicate some frustration with the program,
however you are too new here for anyone to be invested in your opinions to wade the noise for the signal.
We are clear that you considered non-renewal after your first year and your military experiences
causes you confusion when trying to understand a paramilitary organization made up of volunteers
which has a mission and governance structure unlike any other organization in the country.

As to the "@" - that is an operator with a specific function that does not work on this message board.
The quote function serves that purpose much more clearly.  As an LSW, you, more then most, should
understand that long-standing groups have social norms, and new people wading into the deep end and
trying to change them, or citing an incorrect use of a "thing" elsewhere not getting a reaction as
a justification for that action, generally doesn't work, nor receive a warm reception.

Lastly, if bear attacks are a legitimate concern on an activity involving cadets, your ORM is too high to
continue.

[SarDragon]

My latest question still stands:

Is the roles of the squadron commander a 1 term deal or can they remain in command for multiple terms?

Thank you.

Currently, commanders below the wing level are term limited to four years, and may be appointed to subsequent four-year terms with the approval of the Wing and Region commander. In many wings, these subsequent terms are unlikely. Wing commanders are limited to a single four year term, with one one-year extension possible.

The self-succession clause applies only to region commanders.

All this comes from CAPR 20-1, and ICL.

[Garibaldi]

My latest question still stands:

Is the roles of the squadron commander a 1 term deal or can they remain in command for multiple terms?

Thank you.

Currently, commanders below the wing level are term limited to four years, and may be appointed to subsequent four-year terms with the approval of the Wing and Region commander. In many wings, these subsequent terms are unlikely. Wing commanders are limited to a single four year term, with one one-year extension possible.

The self-succession clause applies only to region commanders.

All this comes from CAPR 20-1, and ICL.

We kind of have to rotate around in our unit. Or get outside help. But, yes, on the list of commanders we have had some repetition but not really concurrent terms. There are breaks.

[Spam]

Hey, for the record, some of us "East coast" types do meet wildlife. Here in Georgia, several years ago I had a couple of hundred pound bear banging on our back door at lunch time while I was at work. Having called 911, the wife asked if he got in, she should shoot for a head shot (NO!) or center of mass (I told her to retreat indoors and wait for LE).

(Just in case some one questions my 2nd Amendment rights and need for 30 round clips, not that I need them for GT).

V/R,
@Spam