How are Squadron Commanders Selected?

[LSW]

I am not finding anything anywhere that really explains how it works. Requirements and the likes yes, but not the process behind choosing one or who to choose from.

I would think they are designated by Wing, but based on what? Does one apply? I seriously can not find anything explaining the process and all Knowledge base did was send me the same links my search came up with that told me nothing.

[dwb]

There is no standard process.

Sometimes it's "tag, you're it!", and sometimes it's a selection committee. And everything in between.

[PHall]

In every unit I have been in, the first choice for a new commander is somebody who is in the unit.
Having Group/Wing appoint an "outsider" is usually not a good sign.

[MSG Mac]

When a Commander's term is coming to an end, the next higher HQ will put out a message that there is an opening for a Commander at X Squadron, Group, or Wing. Those who are interested, and meet the requirements will apply, be interviewed, and discuss the job with the appointing officer or his representative. When the interviews are over, a Commander is selected.

[LSW]

Thanks for the quick replies. MSG Mac, makes sense, that is what I seem to be seeing at the Wing Commander level right now as they search for a new one.

Cheers!

[JeffDG]

The process is technically a Wing Commander signs a CAPF 27 appointing the new commander, and it is submitted to NHQ for processing.  How that CAPF 27 gets generated, and by what process the Wing Commander decides, is up to the Wing Commander.

[Holding Pattern]

Step 1. Find new member
Step 2. Promote them to Commander.
Step 3. (optional) Make sure timing coincides with SUI

[spaatzmom]

There is no standard process.

Sometimes it's "tag, you're it!", and sometimes it's a selection committee. And everything in between.

LOL, I was thinking more like is the person breathing or eenie, meenie, mighty, mo but tag you are it works too.

[Mitchell 1969]

In every unit I have been in, the first choice for a new commander is somebody who is in the unit.
Having Group/Wing appoint an "outsider" is usually not a good sign.

I'll attest to that. I was a Group CPO and was asked to take over a squadron within that group. Definitely not a good sign. An even worse sign - it was "effective Tuesday" and the current squadron commander was told only 5 minutes after I accepted - on Sunday.

[LSW]

How about lining the squadron up in formation and tossing a dart over your head, whoever screams gets the job? Of course a CAP squadron may be spread out to much and it will take multiple tries to actually hit someone. Works better with active military, nice and tight.

Thanks everyone.

[Luis R. Ramos]

In some squadrons is a process similar to what you describe.

However, it is not "Who screams" that gets selected. It took too many tries. It was changed to "the person where the dart lands closest." That way you do not have to throw the dart too many times.

[Panzerbjorn]

Trial by combat.

[JeffDG]

Trial by combat.

Loser is appointed.

[kcebnaes]

Ask and ye shall receive. Probably.

Seriously though, if you're interested, talk to the current CC to get a feel for what the job does at that unit and to see if they are in fact stepping down, and then the CCs above(Group and Wing)!

[Storm Chaser]

The process in every group and wing is different. In my group, I announce the vacancy, position requirements, selection criteria, application procedures, and deadline to apply by e-mail sent to all senior members in the group, regardless of current unit of assignment. All applications are reviewed by a selection board composed of members from different units, usually with experience in the different CAP missions. The selection board conducts interviews with each candidate and then makes a recommendation to the group commander (me), who proceeds to approve and submit the assignment to the wing commander.

I've found this process to be very effective. The only challenge is the lack of candidates at times. In that case, I usually extend the deadline and work with the outgoing unit commander to help identify potential candidates. One thing we try to do is identify and mentor potential command candidates early on, so that we're not scrambling to find a replacement last minute. Unfortunately, it doesn't always work as planned. But we try our best and it works most of the time.

[Chappie]

Trial by combat.

Loser is appointed.

Rock, paper, scissors 

[Luis R. Ramos]

It is time to have this thread turn into the eternal uniform question...

Which uniform is best when someone is deciding on whether to apply as CC?

[Майор Хаткевич]

It is time to have this thread turn into the eternal uniform question...

Which uniform is best when someone is deciding on whether to apply as CC?

Polo.

[THRAWN]

In every unit I have been in, the first choice for a new commander is somebody who is in the unit.
Having Group/Wing appoint an "outsider" is usually not a good sign.

I'll attest to that. I was a Group CPO and was asked to take over a squadron within that group. Definitely not a good sign. An even worse sign - it was "effective Tuesday" and the current squadron commander was told only 5 minutes after I accepted - on Sunday.

Sounds familiar. I was on wing ES staff and got a call from a group commander who said "Didn't you just buy a house near XXX squadron? I need a new commander..." That was Friday, I got my signed 2A on Sunday and my first meeting was Monday....

[stillamarine]

In every unit I have been in, the first choice for a new commander is somebody who is in the unit.
Having Group/Wing appoint an "outsider" is usually not a good sign.

I'll attest to that. I was a Group CPO and was asked to take over a squadron within that group. Definitely not a good sign. An even worse sign - it was "effective Tuesday" and the current squadron commander was told only 5 minutes after I accepted - on Sunday.

Sounds familiar. I was on wing ES staff and got a call from a group commander who said "Didn't you just buy a house near XXX squadron? I need a new commander..." That was Friday, I got my signed 2A on Sunday and my first meeting was Monday....

Where is said XXX Squadron....sounds like fun. 

[THRAWN]

In every unit I have been in, the first choice for a new commander is somebody who is in the unit.
Having Group/Wing appoint an "outsider" is usually not a good sign.

I'll attest to that. I was a Group CPO and was asked to take over a squadron within that group. Definitely not a good sign. An even worse sign - it was "effective Tuesday" and the current squadron commander was told only 5 minutes after I accepted - on Sunday.

Sounds familiar. I was on wing ES staff and got a call from a group commander who said "Didn't you just buy a house near XXX squadron? I need a new commander..." That was Friday, I got my signed 2A on Sunday and my first meeting was Monday....

Where is said XXX Squadron....sounds like fun. 

Behave yourself.....Marines...sheesh....lol

[Майор Хаткевич]

It happens. Sometimes a unit is in a rebuild stage, the current CC has to move/job changed/etc, and an outsider has to come in. Most of the time (hopefully), there are people known to the Unit/Group who could step up if necessary.

[LTC Don]

Trial by combat.

Loser is appointed.

Rock, paper, scissors

More like......Thunderdome!


But the classic of all time still works:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AphxyjrH4SE

[THRAWN]

Trial by combat.

Loser is appointed.

Rock, paper, scissors

More like......Thunderdome!


But the classic of all time still works:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AphxyjrH4SE

And that makes me think of this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I5n28hpMFBE

[LSW]

@ Storm Chaser - Thanks for the input from the command side.

The uniform question is valid I suppose, some of us only have Corporate, I can see a commander needing more though. They are not cheap and needing one for your job ok... getting one to get the job and not get it, not so much. B eing ex-military, I just sort of expected squadron commander processes to be more uniform and not so "Whatever someone feels like". I still have to get used to this "Civilian Volunteer Organization in Military Organization's clothing" idea through my head.

Cheers!

[Spam]

This is a really good subject, and can make or break the entire CAP experience for a big number of people, depending on how we do it. I agree that we don't have this process well defined, in the main.


My experiences are varied:

I was CDC for a FLWG unit (South Brevard) late 80s, when the CC up and quit in a huff. He literally flung the keys to the first guy on the spot, a new 2LT. When I arrived ten minutes later, said 2LT had announced to all that he was the new Commander (shades of Al "I'm in charge here" Haig there). After taking him aside to counsel restraint, we called the Group/CC... and I later agreed that he'd be the right candidate.

Early 90s (after a second Deputy tour in SCWG) I moved to St. Louis, and checked into the local VHF net my second night there. The local GP/CC heard me, spoke with me on air, and asked me to call her, and then to meet her and her deputy for dinner with my record jacket - which turned into a job interview/arm twisting exercise. I was told, "if you don't take command, we will shut down this troubled unit, whose CO just doesn't have the time" (St. Louis Comp. 1). A year and a half later, those wonderful people had earned a Unit Citation for sustained performance during a major DR event while exceeding our goals for advancement and training. I handed over to my deputy, whom was one of three candidates I'd identified for the GP/CC when my PCS was coming up.

Next CC tour, at St. Marys Comp Sqdn (NAS Pax River, MD), I was one of a couple of likely candidates interviewed by the GP/CC in an orderly fashion, as both of us were recommended by the outgoing Sqdn/CC. That unit had/has a great stable of active duty officers/NCOs and Navy engineers to choose from, so the process was stable, smooth and professional.

Next CC tour, back at my home cadet unit, Sandy Springs Cadet Sqdn., GAWG, it was again a smooth rotation between one of the several long service, professional aerospace/pilot/engineer, all GTL/GBD former cadet types (we seem to rotate it every four years between four or five guys over the past 30 years). The scissor/paper/stone rule seems to apply there, and we simply let the GP/CC know who is next in the barrel, which promotes continuity. I'm on my second command rotation here now, after a brief tour as a Group/CC and then as a Wing DCP. We do welcome outside pollination (e.g. Garibaldi), but he told me WED night, "dude, no way I'm taking it, I just want to stay a Deputy"!   

I feel that my personal experiences may be atypical, since as a defense engineering type I tend to relocate to areas with personnel who are fairly well trained/experienced with military style and aerospace organizations. Over the years, I have counseled and assisted a number of struggling units through command selections and swaps where we've made the best possible choice given available less experienced candidates, but usually my style has been to:

1. Start with the records (training/attendance/currency/ES/etc.) as an initial screen for quals.
2. Speak with the outgoing CC to ask for recommendations.
3. Speak with my higher (Wing/CC, CV, etc.) to get any insights.
4. Do an analysis of where the unit stands (membership/performance in all 3 missions, etc.)
5. Set threshold minimum criteria for the command spot (i.e. I may accept lower quals in a unit with lots of old hands to help, but may need more experience and/or commitment from a brand new member candidate if we're to keep a new/small unit viable).
6. Announce the minimum criteria within the unit, and within the Group if appropriate (e.g. I sought out three local area candidates only after interviewing likely internal candidates, in an attempt to save one minimally staffed unit whose internal officers had the experience but not the time to command effectively, by their own admission).
7. Rack and stack the candidates by the criteria, and interview them (ideally, with a couple of other senior staff present - I used my Group/DO, a senior pilot, and my Group Deputy).
8. Accept bribes (just kidding). But, if you see me at the BOQ bar, I like single malts, hint hint. 
9. Submit the RECOMMENDATION to the Wing Commander. Note the CAPM 20-1 job responsibilities inherent: Group CCs shouldn't be hiring/firing, as the Form 27 is signed at Wing level. This is similar to tasking Cadet Commanders to submit recommended Cadet Staff rosters to unit commanders for action.
10. Thank the applicants, announce the appointment, fill the paperwork, and arrange the passing of the colors to honor the outgoing Commander, as is his right.
11. Monitor closely to make sure you didn't screw up royally, offer an open door for advice (command can be lonely), and step in only where needed to adjust performance or preserve safety margin.


So, you may hear of contentious or totally random job swaps. I had to broker/mediate some as a Group/CC right as mandatory Commander term limits came in, which caused a lot of hurt feelings among some of the units "led" by local cults of personality. One guy (11 year term, failing unit with ~5 active members) refused to return my contacts, and simply handed command to his wife (and took FM from her...ulp!) without copying me.  Another refused to give me any recommendations for his relief, claiming he was "indispensable". Those very attitudes were, to me, the indication that a rotation was necessary, and that the Unit Commanders Course is an absolute necessity for well run units.  I came to feel in some instances less like a Group Commander and more like T.E. Lawrence, mediating between contentious warring Arab tribes...


In closing, I'd like to recommend that anyone even remotely interested in command ask - nay, DEMAND, that your Wing plan, staff, and execute a UCC to regularize not just selection, but also all command processes. A little investment in that UCC curriculum can turn massive rewards for your unit and your personal job satisfaction.  To me, small unit command is the best job around - when properly planned for via a succession plan and when people are trained into the job ahead of time.

V/R
Spam
"Line over staff any day Sir"!

[LSW]

@ Spam - Gee, thanks for reminding me why I did not want to extend my membership after my first year... CAP is so Chaotic it is amazing that it works at all.

A. Dress ground teams in 1980's BDU's so we cannot see them from the air.
B. No BDU floppy hats because it looks military... while the military uniform, military issue camo hat and military rank don't look military?
C. No weapons, Delaware, Michigan, Virginia, Long Island etc. all have a danger factor rarely noticeable, OK no weapons needed except for rabid squirrels maybe. Western states have bears and mountain lions etc. and Alaska has really big bears and moose. A University of Alaska professor on a field trip with students was mauled by a bear this spring... weapons would be a good idea. But NO, no weapons allowed, but you can get a NRA rifle award through CAP.
D. No knives visible and only 6" in length. So while a Grizzly eats my cadet's face. I can waste time trying to pull a little 6" blade from under all my gear to attack it with due to the no gun rule. Whoopee!
E. The new cadet protection rules seem to be heading towards not having adults around cadets.
F. How many units even really have NCOs? We are officer-centric which is really strange for ex-military.

Thanks for your input.

New question then... is a squadron commander position automatically terminated after 'X' years or can a commander do multiple stints as commander in a role?

Inquiring minds want to know...

Cheers!

[Eclipse]

@ Spam - Gee, thanks for reminding me why I did not want to extend my membership after my first year...

1 - This isn't Twitter, we don't do that here.

2 - Why do you care if you aren't a member?

3 - The majority of the rest of your numbered comments show a misunderstanding or mis-characterization of the situation.

4 - See #2.

[THRAWN]

@ Spam - Gee, thanks for reminding me why I did not want to extend my membership after my first year... CAP is so Chaotic it is amazing that it works at all.

A. Dress ground teams in 1980's BDU's so we cannot see them from the air.
B. No BDU floppy hats because it looks military... while the military uniform, military issue camo hat and military rank don't look military?
C. No weapons, Delaware, Michigan, Virginia, Long Island etc. all have a danger factor rarely noticeable, OK no weapons needed except for rabid squirrels maybe. Western states have bears and mountain lions etc. and Alaska has really big bears and moose. A University of Alaska professor on a field trip with students was mauled by a bear this spring... weapons would be a good idea. But NO, no weapons allowed, but you can get a NRA rifle award through CAP.
D. No knives visible and only 6" in length. So while a Grizzly eats my cadet's face. I can waste time trying to pull a little 6" blade from under all my gear to attack it with due to the no gun rule. Whoopee!
E. The new cadet protection rules seem to be heading towards not having adults around cadets.
F. How many units even really have NCOs? We are officer-centric which is really strange for ex-military.

Thanks for your input.

New question then... is a squadron commander position automatically terminated after 'X' years or can a commander do multiple stints as commander in a role?

Inquiring minds want to know...

Cheers!

This post was hysterical. Mainly for the poorly worded diatribe, but mostly for the lack of knowledge of the frequency of wild animal attacks in the "wilds" of North America. This is from a Science Daily article from 2011: "In an article published in the Journal of Wildlife Management, University of Calgary professor emeritus Dr. Stephen Herrero, University of Calgary graduate Andrew Higgins, and colleagues from the Massachusetts Division of Fisheries and Wildlife and Brigham Young University analyzed the circumstances of all recorded deaths inflicted by non-captive black bears in North America between 1900 and 2009. The study found that 63 people were killed in 59 incidents in Canada, Alaska and the lower 48 states." That's 63 people in 109 years. You have a better chance of being robbed by a hedgehog. Next, like my esteemed colleague in the west stated, why do you care? You quit before you could be a part of the solution to any of your self-described problems. Want to contribute? Renew and propose solutions OR maybe keep your smilebones together for a bit and find out why some things are the way they are....

To answer your question, it depends on many factors. None of which impact you in any manner...

[Spam]

<Sigh>

R/
Spam

[LSW]

1)  Since when is "@" a problem in a forum to specify when a post is for a specific member, your the first one to ever complain in forums I go to. And what does Twitter have to do with anything here?

2)  I am a Senior Member, I would not be writing here if I were not. I did almost drop out.

3)  Mis-characterization is your personal opinion, you misunderstand. These are issues I do not agree with based on what I have been told by senior members training me.

Are suggesting that weapons are allowed? Knives can be carried on the outside of web gear? Blades can be over 6 inches long? Do we have lots of NCO's and my squadron is the only one that does not? BDU floppy hats are allowed? Which of these facts are wrong Eclipse?


As for THRAWN, did you miss the part about the professor being mauled by a bear this spring, as in spring of 2016? Did I say killed? More people are mauled than killed, killed was your choice for statistics , not mine. I don't know where you both live but bears are common in Alaska, I live just short of a National Park and having wolves, bears and coyote walk down my street in not uncommon. Bear attacks in Alaska are not uncommon. Places we would take are cadets are in bear habitat. Shall I have me wife get you the professor's email and you can send him your statistics about how unlikely he was to be killed, I am sure it will be just as hysterical as my post is to you.

My apologies if you failed to catch the tongue in cheek humor and disprove of my suggestion a bear may eat a cadets face... rather than the official terminology, allow me to fix that:

D. No knives visible and only 6" in length. So while a Grizzly mauls one of my cadets, I can waste time trying to pull a little 6" blade from under all my gear to attack it with due to the no gun rule. Whoopee!

My apology if it did not sit well with your statistics. I will be sure to  be sure not to suggest that bears are dangerous in Alaska, I am sure Alaskans will sleep better knowing that.

May 2016: http://www.adn.com/alaska-news/2016/05/18/juneau-man-says-hes-grateful-to-be-alive-after-brown-bear-mauling/
June 2016: http://www.adn.com/alaska-news/wildlife/2016/06/09/man-may-have-been-mauled-by-a-bear-in-an-anchorage-attack-initially-reported-as-a-stabbing/

The State of Alaska even suggests firearms or other forms of defense: http://www.adfg.alaska.gov/index.cfm?adfg=livingwithbears.bearcountry

Maybe someone from Anchorage can explain how dangerous Moose are as well at up to 1,200 pounds when upset. They can often be found in residential areas in Anchorage.

As for the reasons for the rules. The knife rule I understand was due to a senior member being highlighted in a news broadcast wearing cowboy boots and what I have heard described as a "war crimes knife" or "Rambo knife". The weapons rule makes sense on the east coast and many other states with fairly tame wildlife, but does not seem to take into consideration states with real wild life. I can only guess that they did not even consider Alaska when they made the decision if none are from here or visit here often.

Lastly I am still a member because I decided to see if I can help make changes one day when/if I get to higher ranks.

So can we now get on with this thread or would the two of you like to continue whining about my choice of words and writing style? I was specifically talking to Spam at the time.

[Luis R. Ramos]

He is probably mentioning the attack on Forest Wagner by a female bear with two cubs on April or so. See http://www.usnews.com/news/us/articles/2016-04-19/alaska-university-teacher-in-hospital-after-bear-mauled-him

Mr Wagner was in charge of a group of 11 students and 2 student assistants.

On a later article it says that Mr Wagner stated he was skiing, and he may have landed too close to mama bear and one of the cubs.

The article also added that after Wagner was airlifted out, mama bear returned to the group of students and rescuers. She was killed.

How many times we will encounter a mama bear with cubs in a mission? Don't we teach how to behave in the wild?

Do we run into animals? While searching, don't we use attraction techniques?

Making noises? So that our target know we are there?

Making noises... So that bears and another animals know we are there and scare them?

[Luis R. Ramos]

I am also annoyed with the use of @ when referring to a person.

In this forum, if you are addressing a single person, you do not have to type @Spam. Just Spam will do. Why do you want to type extra characters?

The State of Alaska also says to stay away of wild animals.

[LSW]

Yes we do teach our cadets how to act and most Alaskan's do teach their kids. We live close to the glacier and Salmon spawning stream they fish in. Not to mention when have you seen teenagers, cadet or not be quiet in the woods?

And as you say, accidents happen, he did not intentionally land where he landed. In our area I meet up with mama bears with cubs 25% of the time I take me dogs out. Chances of bumping into a mama and cubs on a mission, high, out the road we maybe even meet a grizzly. If a tourist chopper goes down around the ice field, chances of a mama bear meeting goes up.

I am not just spouting things like "Fear the evil man killing wolves" that have no statistics to really back up the claim. Bear attacks here and up north and Moose attacks around Anchorage are solid concerns in these communities.

Luis - Point taken if others feel that way, I will avoid it.

[LSW]

My latest question still stands:

Is the roles of the squadron commander a 1 term deal or can they remain in command for multiple terms?

Thank you.

[LSThiker]

D. No knives visible and only 6" in length. So while a Grizzly mauls one of my cadets, I can waste time trying to pull a little 6" blade from under all my gear to attack it with due to the no gun rule. Whoopee!

My apology if it did not sit well with your statistics. I will be sure to  be sure not to suggest that bears are dangerous in Alaska, I am sure Alaskans will sleep better knowing that

While bear fatalities in Alaska are 3.5 times higher than the rest of the US, they are still uncommon.  There are thousands of bear encounters each year.  The exact number is unknown due to a difficult method to track and a lack of definition.  However, the number of bear attacks is still low, even for Alaska.

The use of firearms have been banned in CAP for a variety of reasons, although we did use them at one point.  Mostly, they caused more self harm than anything else.

The State of Alaska even suggests firearms or other forms of defense: http://www.adfg.alaska.gov/index.cfm?adfg=livingwithbears.bearcountry

Read your link again.  They do not suggest firearms.  Rather they suggest deterrents, which include bear spray and firearms.  But as they state:

but should never be used as an alternative to common-sense approaches to bear encounters.

Within the firearms section, they even imply the discouraging use of firearms as they can be "difficult to successfully deploy" and that a "wounded bear can be a great threat". 

If you are inexperienced with a firearm, it can be difficult to successfully deploy in emergency situations. Additionally, a wounded bear can be a greater threat to human safety. A .300-Magnum rifle or a 12-gauge shotgun with rifled slugs are appropriate weapons if you have to shoot a bear. Heavy handguns such as a .44-Magnum may be inadequate in emergency situations, especially in untrained hands.

The US Fish and Wildlife recommends bear spray over firearms:
http://www.bearsmart.com/docs/BearSprayVsBullets.pdf

Wrangall-St Elias NP also states:

Firearms
Firearms are allowed in Wrangell-St. Elias, but should never be used as an alternative to a common-sense approach to bear encounters. You are allowed to carry a concealed weapon in the park. However, you cannot carry a firearm into a federal building. A rifle of at least .30 caliber or a 12-gauge shotgun with slugs is recommended as defense against a bear. Alaska law makes provisions for shooting a bear in self defense if there is no alternative and if the attack was unprovoked. If you are inexperienced, you are more likely to be injured by a gun than a bear, and any misplaced shot may enrage the bear further, prolonging an attack. We generally recommend that hikers carry bear spray rather than a firearm. Although firearms ARE allowed in Wrangell-St. Elias National Park & Preserve, it is illegal to carry firearms in some of Alaska's other national parks, so check before you go.

Denali NP states:

Contrary to the belief of some, firearms are not needed for protection from bears, and studies have shown that pepper spray may actually be more effective in preventing a bear attack than firearms. Any shooting of an animal by non-subsistence users of the park must be immediately reported to park rangers who will conduct a thorough criminal investigation. The State of Alaska's Defense of Life and Property (DLP) regulation does not apply within Denali National Park and there is no DLP regulation in federal law.

Experts in bear encounters and attacks also recommend bear spray over firearms.

Bottom line, carry bear spray in the event of a bear encounter.  CAP does not ban bear spray. 

Is the roles of the squadron commander a 1 term deal or can they remain in command for multiple terms?

There is no term-limits for Squadron Commanders unless set by your wing. 

Oops thinking wrong.  strike that.  Yes 1-term limit.

[Eclipse]

Is the roles of the squadron commander a 1 term deal or can they remain in command for multiple terms?

1 term and they may not succeed themselves.

In the future, if you want legit answers to a legit question, your best best is not to hide the question inside
statements which are mischaracterizations of the program, or intend to troll harder then ask.

You've now made a number of off-hand statements which seem to indicate some frustration with the program,
however you are too new here for anyone to be invested in your opinions to wade the noise for the signal.
We are clear that you considered non-renewal after your first year and your military experiences
causes you confusion when trying to understand a paramilitary organization made up of volunteers
which has a mission and governance structure unlike any other organization in the country.

As to the "@" - that is an operator with a specific function that does not work on this message board.
The quote function serves that purpose much more clearly.  As an LSW, you, more then most, should
understand that long-standing groups have social norms, and new people wading into the deep end and
trying to change them, or citing an incorrect use of a "thing" elsewhere not getting a reaction as
a justification for that action, generally doesn't work, nor receive a warm reception.

Lastly, if bear attacks are a legitimate concern on an activity involving cadets, your ORM is too high to
continue.

[SarDragon]

My latest question still stands:

Is the roles of the squadron commander a 1 term deal or can they remain in command for multiple terms?

Thank you.

Currently, commanders below the wing level are term limited to four years, and may be appointed to subsequent four-year terms with the approval of the Wing and Region commander. In many wings, these subsequent terms are unlikely. Wing commanders are limited to a single four year term, with one one-year extension possible.

The self-succession clause applies only to region commanders.

All this comes from CAPR 20-1, and ICL.

[Garibaldi]

My latest question still stands:

Is the roles of the squadron commander a 1 term deal or can they remain in command for multiple terms?

Thank you.

Currently, commanders below the wing level are term limited to four years, and may be appointed to subsequent four-year terms with the approval of the Wing and Region commander. In many wings, these subsequent terms are unlikely. Wing commanders are limited to a single four year term, with one one-year extension possible.

The self-succession clause applies only to region commanders.

All this comes from CAPR 20-1, and ICL.

We kind of have to rotate around in our unit. Or get outside help. But, yes, on the list of commanders we have had some repetition but not really concurrent terms. There are breaks.

[Spam]

Hey, for the record, some of us "East coast" types do meet wildlife. Here in Georgia, several years ago I had a couple of hundred pound bear banging on our back door at lunch time while I was at work. Having called 911, the wife asked if he got in, she should shoot for a head shot (NO!) or center of mass (I told her to retreat indoors and wait for LE).

(Just in case some one questions my 2nd Amendment rights and need for 30 round clips, not that I need them for GT).

V/R,
@Spam

[Mitchell 1969]

Hey, for the record, some of us "East coast" types do meet wildlife. Here in Georgia, several years ago I had a couple of hundred pound bear banging on our back door at lunch time while I was at work. Having called 911, the wife asked if he got in, she should shoot for a head shot (NO!) or center of mass (I told her to retreat indoors and wait for LE).

(Just in case some one questions my 2nd Amendment rights and need for 30 round clips, not that I need them for GT).

V/R,
@Spam

Somebody's going to say it. Might as well get it over with.

Magazines. Those would be 30-round magazines.

[stillamarine]

I seem to recall AKWG had rifles in their aircraft emergency kits. I don't know if they still do though and I may be wrong.

[LSThiker]

I seem to recall AKWG had rifles in their aircraft emergency kits. I don't know if they still do though and I may be wrong.

CAPR 900-3

Firearms  may  be  carried  in  survival gear  in  CAP  aircraft  when  required  by  law.    When  firearms  are  so  authorized,  they  will  not  be  removed  from  the  survival  gear  unless  an  emergency situation exists

The State of Alaska at one time required pilots to carry firearms.  I believe the law was removed in 2001 due to Canada's tightening gun laws.  Pilots that flew to the lower US would be in violation of their firearm laws. 

The Alaska Ninety-Nines have this posted on their website:

A Firearm is no longer required as of 2001. The law referencing a firearm had been on the books since the 1940's and never referenced what type of firearm (shotgun/handgun etc) therefore due to the challenges of flying to Alaska through Canadian airspace and on to Eastern countries where firearms were not allowed to be carried in an aircraft, this law was changed.

[Eclipse]

Magazines. Those would be 30-round magazines.

Negative Ghost rider.

Anything with more then 10 rounds is called a "clipazine", and they are the most operator an operator can be.

Now go brick yourself!

[LSW]

Well this has gone further off course than I ever expected. So let me say a few final things to clarify my earlier comments and my standing on bears, knives and uniforms as well as the commonness of bears in my area. You can pick at comments, but this is pretty much all I have to say on the issue as if you still do not see bears as a likely issue than you never will.

To those who answered my most recent question that did in fact get buried here due to the circumstances, thank you very much. I did read them and appreciate the input and examples about how varied CAP decisions are in the area, Squadron commander choosing and squadron commander terms.

Again I apologize for my choice to use '@' it shall not happen again.

Direct replies are below, f you want to hear more about bears read on, if you just want to know what I think of the subjects I listed earlier, see the bottom.

In the future, if you want legit answers to a legit question, your best best is not to hide the question inside
statements which are mischaracterizations of the program, or intend to troll harder then ask.

As an LSW, you, more then most, should
understand that long-standing groups have social norms...

Lastly, if bear attacks are a legitimate concern on an activity involving cadets, your ORM is too high to
continue.

Eclipse – Points taken and thank you for your answer to the question. I would argue the mischaracterizations complaint as the points I make are true. Guns are not allowed, knives must be hidden, boonie caps are not allowed, NCOs are not common, BDUs were created to hide the wearer in the woods. These are not mischaracterizations, they are facts that no one has yet claimed otherwise.

You say I have made some off-hand comments, yes indeed; off-hand is a good choice. I was not starting a new discussion, just pointing out, in my opinion, questionable decisions in an off-hand manner in reference to the somewhat chaotic nature of CAP as shown by multiple entries explaining the random way some decisions are made. I am sorry you didn't like my style and were offended by it, my apologies.

Because it was off-hand in nature I did not hide my next question, it came to mind so I tacked it on. I felt it was still the general theme of this discussion and should stay in this discussion rather than start a new thread with it.
What do you mean "As an LSW?" It is just an old username from many forums. Does it mean something I am unaware of beside a "Light Assault Weapon" and my intended use of it? I am actually curious.

Lastly you suggest that the ORM is too high for activities. The point I have been trying to make is that bears are a norm here. I will reference this further down as well; I have already had 3 bear encounters this summer. They walk down our streets, they have slept in my yard, and they walk into people's houses. Google bears in Juneau and you will find photos and videos of them right downtown. We cannot avoid them at home so we will meet them on missions. If we consider bears in the ORM we cannot leave the hangar with the cadets, certainly not take them for walks in the woods and the like.

LSThiker – I would argue you are missing the point by concentrating on words. Take a step back and look at what you are quoting; the State of Alaska has a web page devoted to the theme of human/bear interactions. The fact that a governmental web site feels that the chances of you coming across bears is great enough that they dedicate a government web site page to telling you what to do. You support my point that bears are a major concern in Alaska and bear spray is fine, but many Alaskans prefer weapons, and if the bear spray does not stop it? All I have is my knife because I don't own a gun. Bears are an issue and the state prefers bear spray but they do not forbid weapons.

I seem to recall AKWG had rifles in their aircraft emergency kits. I don't know if they still do though and I may be wrong.

Stillamarine has a point. I cannot speak for AKWing as I have never been there and they have had a turbulent year with different commanders. However you ask just about any bush pilot and they will have weapons in their planes as well as some of the rural village hoppers. Few Alaksan cities and villages are even connected by roads including Juneau. You get there by air or sea.

Bears and my comments in general:
If you watch "Alaska Aircrash Investigations" Season I Episode 2, you will see a NTSB investigator in a vault pulling a .44 Magnum for bear protection and assorted other weapons in the rack. Other episodes or news footage will show Alaska State Troopers with shotguns around the crash sites... bear protection. Alaska Fish & Game employees always carry weapons when in the bush, bear protection.
Bears are an issue here, many of these comments show a lack of understanding on how likely bear encounters are here and it is this that lead National to declare no weapons for many likely outstanding reasons for most CAP squadrons... but I am willing to bet that they did not factor in Alaska... or other states with predatorily wildlife. So instead we have, THRAWN as an example, sitting in Delaware spouting statistics based on a continent and only deaths. What do you think those 63 people in the last 109 years would think of his statistics. Statistics are fine until they include you. Juneau has never had a cadet mauled, so... great until the day it does happen. I hope it never happens and it is unlikely to happen, but they are my cadets and their safety is my responsibility and I want ever resource I have to protect them even if it means attacking a bear with a knife so it gets away from the cadet.

How many times we will encounter a mama bear with cubs in a mission? Don't we teach how to behave in the wild?

I got a good chuckle with Luis's reply where it goes on to talk about noise... has anyone ever heard of a quiet teenage cadet in the woods?  But in fact any smart Alaskan teaches their kids what to do and we teach our cadets how to react etc.

Let me better explain my situation, I live in Juneau AK, about 300 – 400 meters from the border to the Mendenhall Glacier, a federal park. About a mile away Steep Creek enters Mendenhall Lake. Salmon come into the creek and spawn every summer. I have already seen 3 bears this summer walking my dogs, two encounters were Mamas with cubs. You stand a good chance of seeing bears this time of year at the lake, In about two weeks the salmon will arrive and you can pretty much be guaranteed to see wild bears feeding on them if you stay there a few hours. I have had bears walk up to within 5 feet of me multiple times sniffing for food. I respect bears, I do not fear them. So if a tourist chopper or float plane overflying the Glacier goes down, the odds are great that we will encounter bears.

I have driven the access road many times and had to stop for bears, wolves and coyote to cross. Our local legend Romeo the black wolf played with dogs on the frozen lake until he was illegally killed in 2010. His mate was killed while pregnant with a litter by a speeding taxi after hours. I have seen wolves on our streets and bears in our yards and when I walk my dogs I expect to meet bears and my older dogs who passed this year ignored bears because they were so common. I can go on, but if you still do not comprehend the likelihood of a bear encounter during activities and missions now then you are unlikely too. In my area and downtown Juneau it is Black bears.

Juneau has an road that goes out to around 23 miles called "Out the road". Every summer there is at least one Brown bear siting. Admiralty Island is known for it's bear population. Kodiak is famous for the largest Brown bears on earth. The high north often has Polar bear encounters with oilmen and native villages.

Now bears are known for a great sense of smell and they are scavengers. If an aircraft goes down in the mountains and forests and there are wounded and/or dead, do you imagine a bear passing up a free meal? So they may head to the same crash site as we are.

So let us look at the chain of command:

Squadron Commander: Knows the wild life and terrain of their area. They know the population animal type is and the likelihood of coming into contact with said wildlife. Black bears extremely common.

Wing Commander: Knows the general wild life and terrain of the state. They generally have a feel for the population and animal type and the likelihood of coming into contact with said wildlife. Wing however has to deal with Moose for instance that we do not in SE Alaska.

Region Commander: Has a general feeling for possible wild life in their extended area. Pacific Region has a few states with possible wild life issues.

National Commander: Sits in Alabama I believe and may never have even visited Alaska and likely never lived there, maybe not even in the Pacific Northwest. No real idea about type or population of wild life is smaller areas.

So logically speaking which commander can best judge the risk to CAP members on activities and missions and make the most informed decision as to whether a Senior Member should be allowed to judge for themselves if a weapon is carried? For the record, I do not own a firearm and have bear spray, but I have also never been charged by a large bear so cannot say if bear spray is enough every time. I do believe in choice.

Final points: Juneau for instance is in the Tongass National Forest, it is a Temperate Rain Forest (earth's largest).
1)   1980's BDUs are made to hide soldiers from Russian troops in Europe. They work really well hiding cadets in rain forests, especially from the air. Should ground teams not be visible from the air and the survivors we search for? How obvious is a little red vest on a heavily wooded mountain side? This is a decision based on image and not logic.

2)   What is the more logical head gear in a temperate and mountainous rainforest, the standard soldier headgear or a floppy "Boonie hat" in an area that can get between 25" and 225" of rain a year? This is a decision based on image and not logic.

3)   The decision (forget bears) to only allow knives under uniforms and not handy wear they are quickly and easily handy, meaning for me a bright orange survival knife in an orange sheath. This is a decision based on image and not logic.
Just 3 examples, all based on how we should be seen and not based in what is logical when on a mission in a rainforest climbing a mountain looking for lost people and aircraft. My understanding is the knife rule was a result of a cowboy booted senior member with a very big knife on his belt that was highlighted by the camera operator in an interview after a successful mission. I understand why National had an issue with it and what it made us look like. But was it a knee jerk reaction? It should be used as an example of what CAP does not want, operation leaders ensure your people carry realistic knives and correct uniforms, you are the leaders and we trust you to make logical decisions... rather than just making a carpet rule that even utility and survival knives be hidden under uniforms.

Some decisions are best left to lower level leaders with more regional information, knowledge and experience.

Cheers!

[Eclipse]

What do you mean "As an LSW?"

Licensed Social Worker

you are the leaders and we trust you to make logical decisions...

And where does the standardized training and expectations, not to mention ramifications come from to make those decisions.  certainly not in the CAP
of today, assuming it ever existed.

Some decisions are best left to lower level leaders with more regional information, knowledge and experience.

Again, assumes that experience exists.  There are options open to setting local policies and equipment supplements.

Otherwise, it can be inferred that CAP, as an organization, is simply not equipped to handle, nor interested in, ground SAR in the AKWG
environment, or frankly anything more harsh then a typical forest preserve, and move on from that realization.

[arajca]

I'll pick on one minor item - boonie hats.
CAP tried multiple times to get them approved. The USAF shot it down each time. The last time, CAP pulled the safety card (sunburn prevention). No go. So, It's not CAP that's preventing you from wearing boonies, it's the USAF.

If it's raining that hard, wear a friggin' rain hat! A plain cloth hat, of any style, isn't going to do much to keep you dry or warm in a rain storm.

[THRAWN]

LSW, you seem to be under the impression that Alaska is the only place that has any kind of wildlife.

Wrong. Very wrong. By way of example, this past spring I saw black bears in one of the parks just a few miles from my home in Delaware. In addition, I have seen snakes, feral cats, deer, bobcat, fox, coyote, elk....I've spent a lot of time bending leaves in the northeast over the past 24 years. The point is, with all of the conservation and wildlife preservation activities that have been enacted since the 1970's, you see more and more animals out in them thar hills. That doesn't mean that arming up is the way to mitigate that very slight risk of human versus animal encounters.

You state that "So instead we have, THRAWN as an example, sitting in Delaware spouting statistics based on a continent and only deaths. What do you think those 63 people in the last 109 years would think of his statistics. Statistics are fine until they include you." Statistics are what risk assessments are based on. Certainly not on the reality show that you presented as an example. Your example also includes references to the AKSP and the Fish and Wildlife folks carrying firearms. They ain't us. CAP as an organization has decided that, in order to limit liability and the risk of jugheads getting their hands on a gun and shooting off their pinky toe, that no firearms are allowed. If you don't want to play by those rules, I'd suggest that you not participate in ES with CAP.

And finally, to address your final points:
1. A trained aircrew sometimes has difficulty spotting ground teams. That is true if they are wearing cammies or are wrapped in foil like a potato. That's why there are signal mirrors, radios and alternate methods of spotting.
2. Your obsession with the boonie. Asked and answered.
3. I've been a GTM since 1994. In that time, I've never needed a knife longer than 6" for any reason. If you're fighting a bear with a knife, you're doing it wrong.

[LSThiker]

I cannot speak for AKWing as I have never been there

I live in Juneau AK

If you live in Juneau, AK, then you have been to AKWG. 

the State of Alaska has a web page devoted to the theme of human/bear interactions. The fact that a governmental web site feels that the chances of you coming across bears is great enough that they dedicate a government web site page to telling you what to do.

As I said, there are thousands of bear encounters in the US each year.  The exact number is undetermined due to a variety of reasons.  Never did I say that bears are not a concern.  Never will I say that as I have had plenty of encounters with both grizzly and black bears.  (P.S. never once thought I needed a firearm).

My point, as supported by you, is that the vast majority of bear encounters do not result in attacks or deaths.   

You support my point that bears are a major concern in Alaska and bear spray is fine, but many Alaskans prefer weapons, and if the bear spray does not stop it?

Studies have shown that bear spray stops more bear attacks than firearms.  So I will ask, what happens when your firearm does not stop the bear attack?  Not one method is 100% effective of course.  However, bear spray is most effective and is not prohibited by CAP.   

Bears are an issue and the state prefers bear spray but they do not forbid weapons.

Yes of course the state does not forbid it. 

Alaska Fish & Game employees always carry weapons when in the bush, bear protection.

Even Fish and Wildlife officers in states without bears carry weapons because they are law enforcement.  CAP is not.

but I am willing to bet that they did not factor in Alaska... or other states with predatorily wildlife

Actually, read CAPR 900-3.  They did have Alaska in mind.  They have a clause that has been there since at least the 70s that allows CAP pilots to carry a firearm if required by law.  Alaska had a law that required pilots to carry firearms.  Therefore, NHQ allowed CAP pilots in Alaska to carry firearms.  However, Alaska changed the law and no longer required pilots to carry firearms.  Even though, that clause still exists today in CAPR 900-3. 

So let us look at the chain of command:

Sure, if you do not like the fact that AKWG does not have a provision to allow firearms, then submit a proposal that is well supported to your commander for approval to send up the chain of command.

For the record, I do not own a firearm and have bear spray, but I have also never been charged by a large bear so cannot say if bear spray is enough every time. I do believe in choice.

So you have had all of these encounters but have never needed bear spray or a firearm?  Great, so why the need to carry a firearm?  It sounds like bear spray is just fine.

Also, yes bear spray is very effective as a bear's sense of smell is 1000x that of a blood hound.  Spraying it with bear spray works more often than a firearm.  Instead of telling us why we need to carry firearms, instead research the effectiveness of bear spray and watch the videos. 

2)   What is the more logical head gear in a temperate and mountainous rainforest, the standard soldier headgear or a floppy "Boonie hat" in an area that can get between 25" and 225" of rain a year? This is a decision based on image and not logic.

Boonie hats are allowed with the corporate field uniform.  If you want to wear a boonie, then wear the corporate uniform.  Simple as that.  Otherwise, the USAF has said no to boonies in the USAF-style uniform.  And that is their call. 



Again, submit a proposal to your chain of command to have things changed then. 

[LSW]

Licensed Social Worker

Aahh, Ok. No, I used to do freelance web design. My father had a art studio on an ally and a name reflected that, so I used studio on the web, hence LSW for short. That is just how many people know me now.

Otherwise, it can be inferred that CAP, as an organization, is simply not equipped to handle, nor interested in, ground SAR in the AKWG environment, or frankly anything more harsh then a typical forest preserve, and move on from that realization.

Not sure how you can infer anything of the sort about a Wing based on a single persons opinion... unless I misunderstand. We do not have a ground team currently and we are trying to get our cadets trained up for it. Small plane crashes are common here so there is in theory a mission for us.

That said, the US Coast Guard does almost all SAR missions in SE Alaska. I believe I may not be understanding your post correctly, so I will just leave it at that.

LSW, you seem to be under the impression that Alaska is the only place that has any kind of wildlife.

Wrong. Very wrong. By way of example, this past spring I saw black bears in one of the parks just a few miles from my home in Delaware. In addition, I have seen snakes, feral cats, deer, bobcat, fox, coyote, elk....I've spent a lot of time bending leaves in the northeast over the past 24 years. The point is, with all of the conservation and wildlife preservation activities that have been enacted since the 1970's, you see more and more animals out in them thar hills

I have repeatedly mentioned other states having other wildlife concerns. But I am not willing to discuss other states as I have not lived there. I cannot judge where I have not lived, western states can have mountain lions and snakes, clearly Georgia has bears as Spam said and I cannot guess at how often bear encounters happen in Georgia as I was in the center of Ft. Benning. I will take your word for Delaware because I do not know the state.

You in fact support my point, bears are back in Delaware, wonderfull, and the more bears and other wildlife thrive due to preservation attempts, the increased liklihood of wildlife/human interction. More bears more chance of issues and eventually something will happen and someone in Delaware will be mauled... even if it is a hundred years from now. Your ORM will need to change with the times and the new wildlife populations.

Statistics are what risk assessments are based on. Certainly not on the reality show that you presented as an example. Your example also includes references to the AKSP and the Fish and Wildlife folks carrying firearms. They ain't us. CAP as an organization has decided that, in order to limit liability and the risk of jugheads getting their hands on a gun and shooting off their pinky toe, that no firearms are allowed. If you don't want to play by those rules, I'd suggest that you not participate in ES with CAP.

Again your ignoring the point to nit pick. You chose statistics based only on death, you did not include maulings so therefore your statistics from earlier on were not reflective of true risk conditions and they were for North America and not a specific area as I am speaking of. I am using my examples, like the TV show, to show that bears are a concern with other agencies too, not an argument that law enforcement carry guns so we should.

But as I stated, if you still do not/will not understand the point I am trying to make about the likelihood of wildlife/human interaction that you never will. I disagree with you and lets leave it at that. I won't bother with the rest of your comment as they are not worth it. And if you can enjoy bears in Delaware now, that is great to hear.   :clap:

[LSW]

I'll pick on one minor item - boonie hats.
CAP tried multiple times to get them approved. The USAF shot it down each time. The last time, CAP pulled the safety card (sunburn prevention). No go. So, It's not CAP that's preventing you from wearing boonies, it's the USAF.

Thanks for the info, forgot to acknowledge it earlier.

Cheers!

[THRAWN]

One park, but you get the idea....

https://www.nps.gov/yell/learn/nature/injuries.htm

[Spam]

Magazines. Those would be 30-round magazines.

Negative Ghost rider.

Anything with more then 10 rounds is called a "clipazine", and they are the most operator an operator can be.

Now go brick yourself!

Yeah, I got it, I got it... I was tired, it was late, mea culpa. That, and grew up shooting old rifles with a dad who is now 91...

Thanks guys
Spam (DOUBLE sigh...)

[stillamarine]

As someone that wore a boonie in the jungle that saw lots and lots of rain, I'll say this, It's not as great as you may think for "protection" from rain. The longer it rains, the wetter it gets, the more of a pain in the !!! it is.

[Alaric]

I'll pick on one minor item - boonie hats.
CAP tried multiple times to get them approved. The USAF shot it down each time. The last time, CAP pulled the safety card (sunburn prevention). No go. So, It's not CAP that's preventing you from wearing boonies, it's the USAF.

Thanks for the info, forgot to acknowledge it earlier.

Cheers!

Its definitely the AF since the you can wear the blue boonie hat with the BBDUs

[LSW]

It's not as great as you may think for "protection" from rain. The longer it rains, the wetter it gets, the more of a pain in the !!! it is.

Ok, I can see that. Point taken.

[NIN]

I'll attest to that. I was a Group CPO and was asked to take over a squadron within that group. Definitely not a good sign. An even worse sign - it was "effective Tuesday" and the current squadron commander was told only 5 minutes after I accepted - on Sunday.

I have that t-shirt, too.

I wasn't even the CPO, and I'd only been back in a blue suit for 4 months. as a brand new 1st Lt, when I showed up at a unit meeting with the the group commander who said "the Lieutenant here will be assuming command tonight."

Ugh. I was merely the interim until the designee could get FBI screened, etc. It was a rough 6 months.

[MSG Mac]

I knew a Wing Commander who was appointed before he was a member. Of course that was in the early 60s when CAP was a lot looser.

[Storm Chaser]

I saw a member back in the 90's go from 2d Lt to Lt Col as a Wing Commander and full Col a year later. He wasn't the most competent Wing Commander to say the least.

[LSThiker]

I saw a member back in the 90's go from 2d Lt to Lt Col as a Wing Commander and full Col a year later. He wasn't the most competent Wing Commander to say the least.

I remember when I was a new cadet watching a captain get promoted to colonel. I was most confused by that until later when someone explained it to me.  Although I understand it now, it still sits weird with me.

[LSW]

I remember when I was a new cadet watching a captain get promoted to colonel. I was most confused by that until later when someone explained it to me.  Although I understand it now, it still sits weird with me.

Can I assume that in both your case and Storm Chaser's that is was due to a position? From Captain to Colonel due to becoming a wing commander or something?

But in the case of Storm Chaser's example, and please correct me if I am wrong. from my OBC training I understood that everything over Lt. Col. is temporary based on position and once you no longer hold the position it reverts back to Lt. Col.?

[MacGruff]

Can I assume that in both your case and Storm Chaser's that is was due to a position? From Captain to Colonel due to becoming a wing commander or something?

But in the case of Storm Chaser's example, and please correct me if I am wrong. from my OBC training I understood that everything over Lt. Col. is temporary based on position and once you no longer hold the position it reverts back to Lt. Col.?

I think your understanding is correct as Wing Commanders are Colonels (full birds). A couple of years ago the rules changed from having a one year qualification period where you held a "temporary" appointment as a Colonel. Now it's a Colonel from the get-go. The grade does NOT revert back to Lt. Col. It stays a Colonel from that point onwards.

[Papabird]

I think your understanding is correct as Wing Commanders are Colonels (full birds). A couple of years ago the rules changed from having a one year qualification period where you held a "temporary" appointment as a Colonel. Now it's a Colonel from the get-go. The grade does NOT revert back to Lt. Col. It stays a Colonel from that point onwards.

Lt Col also now has a 1 year probationary period.  After one year of holding the grade of Lt Colonel, the current Region commander is notified in eServices and makes a determination to make it permanent at that point.

I just had this explained to me a couple of times.....for some reason.... 

[JeffDG]

Can I assume that in both your case and Storm Chaser's that is was due to a position? From Captain to Colonel due to becoming a wing commander or something?

But in the case of Storm Chaser's example, and please correct me if I am wrong. from my OBC training I understood that everything over Lt. Col. is temporary based on position and once you no longer hold the position it reverts back to Lt. Col.?

I think your understanding is correct as Wing Commanders are Colonels (full birds). A couple of years ago the rules changed from having a one year qualification period where you held a "temporary" appointment as a Colonel. Now it's a Colonel from the get-go. The grade does NOT revert back to Lt. Col. It stays a Colonel from that point onwards.

Colonel for Wing Commanders is a temporary grade.  It is typically made permanent following a successful term of office.

The change to which you refer was that Wing Commanders used to be appointed to a 1 year probationary, followed by a 3 year full term in office.  That was changed about a year ago to do away with the probationary period.

[FW]

Can I assume that in both your case and Storm Chaser's that is was due to a position? From Captain to Colonel due to becoming a wing commander or something?

But in the case of Storm Chaser's example, and please correct me if I am wrong. from my OBC training I understood that everything over Lt. Col. is temporary based on position and once you no longer hold the position it reverts back to Lt. Col.?

I think your understanding is correct as Wing Commanders are Colonels (full birds). A couple of years ago the rules changed from having a one year qualification period where you held a "temporary" appointment as a Colonel. Now it's a Colonel from the get-go. The grade does NOT revert back to Lt. Col. It stays a Colonel from that point onwards.

Last time I checked: For the grade of Col., it is a temp grade until the "successful completion" of term of office.  For the grade of Brig General and Major General, the grade is made permanent after 1 year of service. 

[MSG Mac]

I think your understanding is correct as Wing Commanders are Colonels (full birds). A couple of years ago the rules changed from having a one year qualification period where you held a "temporary" appointment as a Colonel. Now it's a Colonel from the get-go. The grade does NOT revert back to Lt. Col. It stays a Colonel from that point onwards.

Lt Col also now has a 1 year probationary period.  After one year of holding the grade of Lt Colonel, the current Region commander is notified in eServices and makes a determination to make it permanent at that point.

I just had this explained to me a couple of times.....for some reason.... 

LT Col always had the 1 year probationary period, but until a few years ago there was no way of routinely tracking the LtCols. Now the RC gets a monthly printout of the the probationers and (with Input from the Wing Commanders), and can checkbox individuals as needed.

[Eclipse]

Wing & Region Legislative CC's are temporary promotions to Lt Col, with the member reverting to their previous grade when they are replaced.

Region CV are also temporary to Col pending completion of assignment and approval by NHQ.

Maj Gen becomes permanent upon "successful completion" of assignment as National CC.

BGen becomes permanent after 1 year as NHQ-CV (and recommendation, etc), if the grade isn't confirmed, they
must step down as NHQ-CV.

Individuals selected as NHQ-CC, who were not already NHQ-CV (and thus a 1-star), are promoted temporarily for 1-year
to BGen, after which the promotion to Maj Gen is automatic, but still subject to the "successful assignment" to be permanent

As to the Lt Col - it's 1-year "probationary"(term not used in 35-5), at which time the Region CC can approved permanent,
extend the probation for another year, or demote to the previous grade held.

[LSW]

Some how I figured I was not quite reading that correctly, but it is not really uncommon for battlefield promotions to be dropped, Custer was a Gen. in the Civil War but only a Col. when he died. I just always felt once you have a grade you should keep it. Glad to hear they can keep them.

Of course if you skipped rank as mentioned here, I could also see dropping said Captain from Col. to a Maj. when his command stint is done. Interesting subject.

[N6RVT]

I saw a member back in the 90's go from 2d Lt to Lt Col as a Wing Commander and full Col a year later. He wasn't the most competent Wing Commander to say the least.

I remember when I was a new cadet watching a captain get promoted to colonel. I was most confused by that until later when someone explained it to me.  Although I understand it now, it still sits weird with me.

The previous California Wing Commander was never a lieutenant colonel so that still happens

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk

[kwe1009]

Skipping ranks isn't just a CAP thing.  It happens in the Air Force but is super rare.

http://www.military.com/daily-news/2015/08/27/air-force-colonel-to-get-double-promotion-take-top-chaplain-post.html

[Luis R. Ramos]

Kwe-

Thanks for posting that link. However I got an error message "Sorry that story is no longer available."

From Stars and Stripes Japan: http://japan.stripes.com/news/af-colonel-get-double-promotion-2-star-general-top-chaplain-post

[grunt82abn]

Worked for me

[skymaster]

Skipping ranks isn't just a CAP thing.  It happens in the Air Force but is super rare.

http://www.military.com/daily-news/2015/08/27/air-force-colonel-to-get-double-promotion-take-top-chaplain-post.html

It also occasionally happens in the Air National Guard.

http://flightlines.airforcetimes.com/2011/10/03/from-captain-to-two-star-general-in-a-day/