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CAP Talk  |  General Discussion  |  The Lobby  |  Topic: Facts, Myths and Legends
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Author Topic: Facts, Myths and Legends  (Read 7313 times)
almostspaatz
Forum Regular

Posts: 115
Unit: GLR-OH-288

Imgur
« on: June 22, 2016, 12:26:42 PM »

I am working on a presentation discussing common myths that float around the CAP community and already have a good list.

Does anyone have any good little known facts or myths usually believed? Please cite sources...
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C/Maj Steve Garrett
DakRadz
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 1,351

« Reply #1 on: June 22, 2016, 12:29:05 PM »

Uniforms are NEVER a point of contention.
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LSThiker
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 1,690
Unit: Earth

« Reply #2 on: June 22, 2016, 12:29:49 PM »

I am working on a presentation discussing common myths that float around the CAP community and already have a good list.

Does anyone have any good little known facts or myths usually believed? Please cite sources...

What is already on your list?
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Eclipse
Too Much Free Time Award
***
Posts: 27,896

« Reply #3 on: June 22, 2016, 12:45:34 PM »

You might include which members are actually considered "Total Force", however the reality
will make people sad, since the real number is a small percentage of total membership.
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"Effort" does not equal "results".
The contents of this post are Copyright 2017 by eclipse. All rights are reserved. Specific permission is given to quote this post here on CAP-Talk only.

JeffDG
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 3,157

« Reply #4 on: June 22, 2016, 01:23:00 PM »

You might include which members are actually considered "Total Force", however the reality
will make people sad, since the real number is a small percentage of total membership.
And changes depending on what the member is doing.
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Майор Хаткевич
200,000th Post Author
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 6,075
Unit: GLR-IL-049

« Reply #5 on: June 22, 2016, 01:46:14 PM »

CAP sunk submarines in WW2
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RogueLeader
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 3,626
Unit: Of measure

« Reply #6 on: June 22, 2016, 01:52:23 PM »

CAP sunk submarines in WW2

Prove we didn't.  There's speculation that we didn't.
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<redacted>

GRW 3340
Alaric
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 740

« Reply #7 on: June 22, 2016, 01:58:50 PM »

CAP sunk submarines in WW2

Prove we didn't.  There's speculation that we didn't.

You can't prove a negative.
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Spam
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 914
Unit: GA-001

« Reply #8 on: June 22, 2016, 02:00:27 PM »

You might include which members are actually considered "Total Force", however the reality
will make people sad, since the real number is a small percentage of total membership.

Absolutely, do this one. Not all of us are TF, all the time. Great suggestion.

V/R
Spam
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winterg
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 743
Unit: SER-FL-182

« Reply #9 on: June 22, 2016, 02:03:39 PM »

You might include which members are actually considered "Total Force", however the reality
will make people sad, since the real number is a small percentage of total membership.

Absolutely, do this one. Not all of us are TF, all the time. Great suggestion.

V/R
Spam
Maybe I should have held off on the tattoo. 

Transmitted via my R5 astromech.

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Майор Хаткевич
200,000th Post Author
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 6,075
Unit: GLR-IL-049

« Reply #10 on: June 22, 2016, 02:15:55 PM »

CAP sunk submarines in WW2

Prove we didn't.  There's speculation that we didn't.


What Alaric said.


Why don't you provide records to the contrary?
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Spam
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 914
Unit: GA-001

« Reply #11 on: June 22, 2016, 02:32:05 PM »

CAP sunk submarines in WW2

Prove we didn't.  There's speculation that we didn't.

On the contrary, the speculation is that we DID have kills. The evidence is that we did not.

Self reporting two kills without evidence has led to what has amounted to the persistent organizational self-delusion that we "believe" we did have two kills, and several other probables, as noted in CAP wartime reports, which were quoted with little independent verification in Army historical documents, and formed the basis of NHQ/historian LTC Pogorzelskis monograph, at http://www.capmembers.com/media/cms/CAP_UBOATSDOWN_ECFBEC512D7DB.pdf


Subsequent to Navy analysis (remember, the Navy was the ASW lead service) and with extensive post war analytical support, the results have gradually appeared to completely discount the wishful CAP claims. The Navy did not confirm the claims, and the kills are not proven.


From 5MAR42 to AUG43 (CAP Coastal Patrol mission).
CAP planes were first armed after the MAY42 Rinker/Manning mission.
The first kill claimed was the 11JUL42 Haggins/Farr mission, based on "debris".
CAP internally accepted the claim, sent it up the chain, and the Army and Navy (at the time) recorded it.

Here's the later analysis of a preponderance of evidence showing that we didn't:
Check the data: http://uboat.net/fates/losses/1942.htm
Also see: http://uboat.net/forums/read.php?3,86029,86029#msg-86029
Dr. Axel Niestle's work and full reference data is available at: https://www.amazon.com/German-U-Boat-Losses-During-World/dp/1557506418?ie=UTF8&qid=1282695498&ref_=sr_1_2&s=books&sr=1-2


V/R
Spam



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JeffDG
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 3,157

« Reply #12 on: June 22, 2016, 02:50:38 PM »

You might include which members are actually considered "Total Force", however the reality
will make people sad, since the real number is a small percentage of total membership.

Absolutely, do this one. Not all of us are TF, all the time. Great suggestion.

V/R
Spam
Nobody is Total Force all the time.  You attending your unit meeting is not Total Force.

Unless you're signed into an AFAM 24/7, you're not Total Force all the time.
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Spam
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 914
Unit: GA-001

« Reply #13 on: June 22, 2016, 02:57:50 PM »

New suggestion:

D&C myths and legends are always fun, and are useful to cover when coupled with the admonition to go back to the USAF Instruction for the real truth data on how to drill. Examples that keep popping up of myths and bad habits coming from sacred tradition but not any approved manual or reg:

- The fall out "twirl" on dismissal.
- The hallway passing brace to attention and "BY YOUR LEAVE SIR/MA'AM".
- The Third Person Form of Address "THISCADETDOESNOTKNOWBUTWILLFINDOUTSIR".
- The no hands in pockets in uniform sin.
and so forth.

V/R
Spam


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raivo
Seasoned Member

Posts: 440
Unit: Migrant

« Reply #14 on: June 22, 2016, 06:20:10 PM »

- The Third Person Form of Address "THISCADETDOESNOTKNOWBUTWILLFINDOUTSIR".

Believed to have originated with the Faceless Cadet Squadron of Braavos.
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1Lt, CAP
Capt, USAF
Recipient of a Mitchell Award Of Irrelevant Number

"No combat-ready unit has ever passed inspection. No inspection-ready unit has ever survived combat."
Ed DeSocio
Recruit

Posts: 13
Unit: NHQ-HQ-996

« Reply #15 on: June 22, 2016, 09:03:12 PM »

I like the Lee Harvey Oswald story. He was a cadet. It's unfortunate that we have anything in common with him, but the story is worth telling.
http://captalk.net/index.php?topic=16983.0
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Ed DeSocio
NHQ-HQ-996 National Patron Squadron
Spaatz #594
MSG Mac
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 1,772
Unit: MER-MD-071

« Reply #16 on: June 23, 2016, 01:54:32 PM »

I like the Lee Harvey Oswald story. He was a cadet. It's unfortunate that we have anything in common with him, but the story is worth telling.
http://captalk.net/index.php?topic=16983.0

Don't forget to add that former National Chairman of the Board BG Byrd was the owner of the Texas School Book Depository.
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Michael P. McEleney
Lt Col CAP
MSG USA (Retired)
RNOfficer
Seasoned Member

Posts: 232

« Reply #17 on: July 01, 2016, 07:00:41 PM »

A well-established fable is that CAP cadets were considered for the teenage resistance group in the original "Red Dawn".
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Майор Хаткевич
200,000th Post Author
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 6,075
Unit: GLR-IL-049

« Reply #18 on: July 01, 2016, 07:42:07 PM »

A well-established fable is that CAP cadets were considered for the teenage resistance group in the original "Red Dawn".


Recruiting boom averted?
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Waterflame6
Newbie

Posts: 2
Unit: LVCS-NV-07

« Reply #19 on: July 02, 2016, 05:33:18 PM »

Wait, that's a thing???

why did they not go through with it tho
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ayy lmao. Thank you for reading that thing above.
Ayy,
Waterflame6 (C/Am)
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CAP Talk  |  General Discussion  |  The Lobby  |  Topic: Facts, Myths and Legends
 


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