Need clarification on what counts as volunteer hours

[Майор Хаткевич]

I always found it odd that the "CAP Sponsored" thing is an issue. If a unit decides to help the "town cleanup" day event, it's an external event, what's wrong with counting it as community service?

[Eclipse]

I always found it odd that the "CAP Sponsored" thing is an issue. If a unit decides to help the "town cleanup" day event, it's an external event, what's wrong with counting it as community service?

It's another ill-fitting attempt to match the military model.

Yes, by all means encourage active forces to participate in the community during off hours.  Trying to make that fit CAP doesn't work, which is
why it constantly raises confusion.

A superhero-quick way to start fixing CAP is to start erasing the stuff that constantly raises the same questions - that is a clear indication of a flawed premise.

[Майор Хаткевич]

Maybe in the reg re-write. As far as I can see, most things outside of internal activities, can count for community service.

[AirAux]

If a non-CAP adult wants to come and help out during CAP meetings in order to meet his/her Court ordered Community Service requirement, wouldn't that be okay??

[Eclipse]

If a non-CAP adult wants to come and help out during CAP meetings in order to meet his/her Court ordered Community Service requirement, wouldn't that be okay??

Wow, so much "No".

[Spaceman3750]

If a non-CAP adult wants to come and help out during CAP meetings in order to meet his/her Court ordered Community Service requirement, wouldn't that be okay??

Seriously?

[kwe1009]

I always found it odd that the "CAP Sponsored" thing is an issue. If a unit decides to help the "town cleanup" day event, it's an external event, what's wrong with counting it as community service?

CAPR 39-3 21.i. "Awarded to members who complete 60 hours of community service outside of Civil Air Patrol"

Also from http://capnhq.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/472/~/community-service-ribbon-for-cadets : "Community service projects conducted by CAP units do not qualify for this recognition."

[Spam]

If a non-CAP adult wants to come and help out during CAP meetings in order to meet his/her Court ordered Community Service requirement, wouldn't that be okay??

Yeaahhhh... no. Well, hmmm.  Lets think about this. Here's some brainstorming ideas:


1. You could tell them that due to our youth protection policy the answer must be no for regular meetings, but that you'd gladly certify their labor hours for the court if they were to come out and, under adult officer supervision, perform labor on your HQ. Lawncare/groundskeeping, scrape and paint, digging, scrub the unit van and change its oil, you name it.

2. Same could hold true if they have marketable skills that the unit could use, but without allowing access to regular meetings.

3. Contact the court and ask if your 501(c)3 charity could be designated as a worthy recipient of fines paid in lieu of community service hours. In my state (Georgia) we routinely use prisoners on chain gangs to cut grass by the highways, but many of our courts allow fines to be paid to organizations such as local M.A.D.D. and D.A.R.E. organizations. CAP might be a good candidate - check as always with your Wing/FM and /CC, of course.

Hey, why not ask, right?

Cheers
Spam

[lordmonar]

In the military.....military sponsored volunteer opportunities do count.   So it's not CAP trying to emulate the Air Force. 


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[Майор Хаткевич]

I always found it odd that the "CAP Sponsored" thing is an issue. If a unit decides to help the "town cleanup" day event, it's an external event, what's wrong with counting it as community service?

CAPR 39-3 21.i. "Awarded to members who complete 60 hours of community service outside of Civil Air Patrol"

Also from http://capnhq.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/472/~/community-service-ribbon-for-cadets : "Community service projects conducted by CAP units do not qualify for this recognition."

I know the reg. It's the logic that baffles me.

[TheSkyHornet]

I always found it odd that the "CAP Sponsored" thing is an issue. If a unit decides to help the "town cleanup" day event, it's an external event, what's wrong with counting it as community service?

Now how about when a unit mandates that all of the cadets have to be there?

I often see many "unit activities" where cadets get beat to death to show up but very few seniors turn out. In units that have 50 members, why must 20 cadets show but not the 30 seniors?

That's something I would include heavily in the debate as to what constitutes community service. If it's mandated, that takes away the "volunteer service" aspect for me.

[Майор Хаткевич]

I always found it odd that the "CAP Sponsored" thing is an issue. If a unit decides to help the "town cleanup" day event, it's an external event, what's wrong with counting it as community service?

Now how about when a unit mandates that all of the cadets have to be there?

I often see many "unit activities" where cadets get beat to death to show up but very few seniors turn out. In units that have 50 members, why must 20 cadets show but not the 30 seniors?

That's something I would include heavily in the debate as to what constitutes community service. If it's mandated, that takes away the "volunteer service" aspect for me.

No idea, as we never force cadets to do anything at our unit.

[xray328]

I always found it odd that the "CAP Sponsored" thing is an issue. If a unit decides to help the "town cleanup" day event, it's an external event, what's wrong with counting it as community service?

CAPR 39-3 21.i. "Awarded to members who complete 60 hours of community service outside of Civil Air Patrol"

Also from http://capnhq.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/472/~/community-service-ribbon-for-cadets : "Community service projects conducted by CAP units do not qualify for this recognition."

I know the reg. It's the logic that baffles me.

I agree, I don't understand this.  If the kids are doing community service, why not? We also don't force the cadets to do anything but for those that do, why can't we count these hours?  Ned?  I can see how airshows etc shouldn't count but why don't community service projects qualify?  At the very least they should count as "volunteer hours" the kids need for school.

There's still some confusion out there at the units regarding what counts as community service hours, what counts towards the community service ribbon, and what they can count as volunteer hours.  I think these are three separate things.

[Storm Chaser]

Whether we agree with it or not, the intent of the CAP Community Service Ribbon is encourage and recognize community service outside of CAP. That's why community service within CAP doesn't qualify for the ribbon.

[Майор Хаткевич]

Whether we agree with it or not, the intent of the CAP Community Service Ribbon is encourage and recognize community service outside of CAP. That's why community service within CAP doesn't qualify for the ribbon.

I would consider helping the community as a unit as being community service outside of CAP. I get that the reg forbids this, but the question is why? Volunteering is volunteering, and there's only so much time someone can give.

[Alaric]

Whether we agree with it or not, the intent of the CAP Community Service Ribbon is encourage and recognize community service outside of CAP. That's why community service within CAP doesn't qualify for the ribbon.

I would consider helping the community as a unit as being community service outside of CAP. I get that the reg forbids this, but the question is why? Volunteering is volunteering, and there's only so much time someone can give.

I believe that the intention is to award those who, in their time away from CAP they give back to their communities.  Most of the community service awards I have processed have been for (Coaching sports (little league, Pee Wees, etc), youth pastoring (volunteer), peer counseling, Red Cross, tutoring, and working in animal shelters)

[Майор Хаткевич]

Whether we agree with it or not, the intent of the CAP Community Service Ribbon is encourage and recognize community service outside of CAP. That's why community service within CAP doesn't qualify for the ribbon.

I would consider helping the community as a unit as being community service outside of CAP. I get that the reg forbids this, but the question is why? Volunteering is volunteering, and there's only so much time someone can give.

I believe that the intention is to award those who, in their time away from CAP they give back to their communities.  Most of the community service awards I have processed have been for (Coaching sports (little league, Pee Wees, etc), youth pastoring (volunteer), peer counseling, Red Cross, tutoring, and working in animal shelters)

Right, because that's what is allowed. But is it any different if the local town has a "city park clean up day", and the unit decides to support the cause as a unit (and get visibility), vs everyone showing up as "individuals"?

[Eclipse]

Whether we agree with it or not, the intent of the CAP Community Service Ribbon is encourage and recognize community service outside of CAP. That's why community service within CAP doesn't qualify for the ribbon.

I would consider helping the community as a unit as being community service outside of CAP. I get that the reg forbids this, but the question is why? Volunteering is volunteering, and there's only so much time someone can give.

I believe that the intention is to award those who, in their time away from CAP they give back to their communities.  Most of the community service awards I have processed have been for (Coaching sports (little league, Pee Wees, etc), youth pastoring (volunteer), peer counseling, Red Cross, tutoring, and working in animal shelters)

Right, because that's what is allowed. But is it any different if the local town has a "city park clean up day", and the unit decides to support the cause as a unit (and get visibility), vs everyone showing up as "individuals"?

Yes, because the key is "away time". 

When you support the cause as a unit, you bring to bear more resources, not to mention the potential for
liability to CAP.  In that case you're doing your "CAP job", so to speak, which by design is serving the community.

I'd just as soon drop the thing altogether, and encourage people to use that "away time" time for CAP.
No, CAP is not a 24x7x365 service" and that's not the suggestion, but at the same time encouraging people to
do "not CAP" can also be self-defeating.

There's only so many hours in a month not accounted for.  Hearing Johnny can't come to rocketry on Sat, and
then handing him a decoration for not being there because of "other" will not stir the other souls who made it.

[Майор Хаткевич]

That's certainly the other flip of the coin.

[Alaric]

Whether we agree with it or not, the intent of the CAP Community Service Ribbon is encourage and recognize community service outside of CAP. That's why community service within CAP doesn't qualify for the ribbon.

I would consider helping the community as a unit as being community service outside of CAP. I get that the reg forbids this, but the question is why? Volunteering is volunteering, and there's only so much time someone can give.

I believe that the intention is to award those who, in their time away from CAP they give back to their communities.  Most of the community service awards I have processed have been for (Coaching sports (little league, Pee Wees, etc), youth pastoring (volunteer), peer counseling, Red Cross, tutoring, and working in animal shelters)

Right, because that's what is allowed. But is it any different if the local town has a "city park clean up day", and the unit decides to support the cause as a unit (and get visibility), vs everyone showing up as "individuals"?

Yes, because the key is "away time". 

When you support the cause as a unit, you bring to bear more resources, not to mention the potential for
liability to CAP.  In that case you're doing your "CAP job", so to speak, which by design is serving the community.

I'd just as soon drop the thing altogether, and encourage people to use that "away time" time for CAP.
No, CAP is not a 24x7x365 service" and that's not the suggestion, but at the same time encouraging people to
do "not CAP" can also be self-defeating.

There's only so many hours in a month not accounted for.  Hearing Johnny can't come to rocketry on Sat, and
then handing him a decoration for not being there because of "other" will not stir the other souls who made it.

By the same token Eclipse there are many days of the week where a unit is having no activities, so rewarding Johnny, who instead of sitting on his x-box is a volunteer tutor at the local youth center would hopefully encourage those types of actions in others.