Plane crash at PDK Air Show near cadets

[Hyperion]

An accident occured at the PDK Air Show yesterday where a stunt plane crashed into the airfield. After reviewing the YouTube links I noticed the stunt plane crashed approximately 100 meters away from CAP cadets who were on the flight line:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yofnbXKUjaA (Warning: air crash)

It's a little blurry from this distance but you can tell they're CAP cadets. There's also a second video with much sharper image that shows both the crash from another angle and later cadets running across the field around the 1:47 mark. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=85vUOyZrNHg&feature=youtu.be)

The only loss of life was that of the pilot. No one else is reported to be harmed. I do not have any information at this time as to the cause of the crash.

My question is what is the correct SOP in this case? I haven't been to an airshow yet in a CAP function so I am unsure if there are assigned safety points or evacuation routes for cadets on the flight line. Has CAP been near a crash before like this with cadets? I'm a new safety officer and wish to ensure my training is prepared for emergencies such as this.

I'm thankful no one on the ground was injured and the cadets were able to move out of the way in a reasonable speed after the initial shock. My thoughts go out to the family of the pilot and those who observed the crash in person.

EDIT: Hope this is the right board.

[PHall]

At most air shows cadets are used to keep the public behind the FAA Safety Line. So they should be out of the danger area.
But, if there was a crash I would do two things.
1. Notify the parents. Let them know their kid is safe.
2. Have a Chaplain or another Trained Counselor talk to the cadets about what they saw, if anything. Might be a task for a CISM Team if available.

[Chappie]

^^^That was exactly the protocol we followed in the CAWG when a Tri-Motor replica crashed on take-off at the Fullerton Airport Open House/Show in 2004 and in the PCR/NVWG when a plane crashed during the 2011 Reno Air Races. 

[Fubar]

What's concerning is the video shows the cadets run by, but you never see the senior member who is responsible for them. It is of course entirely possible that the senior just wasn't caught on video.

[NIN]

What's concerning is the video shows the cadets run by, but you never see the senior member who is responsible for them. It is of course entirely possible that the senior just wasn't caught on video.

Strangely, cadets do pretty well without a senior member attached to them.

As long as you don't have cadets out on show-center, but rather maintaining the crowdline, etc, you should be in pretty good shape.

[lordmonar]

When we worked the airshow at Nellis....part of the safety brief in the event of a major accident was for the cadets to report to the designated rally point.

Cadets were all assigned team leaders and had to check out with their team leader if they were not actually with the team (say on a long break to go "do" the airshow).

So it was simple to form them up...get a roll call and find out who is unaccounted for.
Those teams on post i.e. crowd control were to stay on post (if it was safe) and we would contact the team leader by radio and get a head count.

At that point we would be calling Wing and deploying the big guns for the incident (only from the CAP side of things).

[KASSRCrashResearch]

At most air shows cadets are used to keep the public behind the FAA Safety Line. So they should be out of the danger area.
But, if there was a crash I would do two things.
1. Notify the parents. Let them know their kid is safe.
2. Have a Chaplain or another Trained Counselor talk to the cadets about what they saw, if anything. Might be a task for a CISM Team if available.

I agree with this with a caveat: Let the chaplain or a counselor tell them "If you want to talk, we're available".  Make the approach more of a support net and less of an intervention.  That's how you build a person up and help them realize that this, like a penny swallowed by a toddler, will pass given enough time.

Trying to force someone to talk about what they saw or sit through others talking about it can do a lot of harm.  The same goes with trying to make out what are normal transient reactions to traumatic events into something pathological.  That's said as someone who deals with the aftermaths of aircraft crash related carnage for a living and I still have occasional cases that give me trouble (you know....because I'm not a sociopath).  I mention that to someone who is of a CISM mindset and they are shoehorning me into a PTSD diagnosis whereas an independent mental health professional who is up to date sees it for what it is (an empathetic person who is bothered by the death and suffering of others). 

It's one reason- along with the massive body of research that says that it doesn't do what proponents claim that it does- is why CISM programs (at least following the Mitchell model) have largely been abandoned by most national and international organizations except CAP.  The persistence on the part of CAP seems largely due to a handful of the chaplains who are grasping at straws as the secularization of society starts to back them into a corner.

[PHall]

At most air shows cadets are used to keep the public behind the FAA Safety Line. So they should be out of the danger area.
But, if there was a crash I would do two things.
1. Notify the parents. Let them know their kid is safe.
2. Have a Chaplain or another Trained Counselor talk to the cadets about what they saw, if anything. Might be a task for a CISM Team if available.

I agree with this with a caveat: Let the chaplain or a counselor tell them "If you want to talk, we're available".  Make the approach more of a support net and less of an intervention.  That's how you build a person up and help them realize that this, like a penny swallowed by a toddler, will pass given enough time.

Trying to force someone to talk about what they saw or sit through others talking about it can do a lot of harm.  The same goes with trying to make out what are normal transient reactions to traumatic events into something pathological.  That's said as someone who deals with the aftermaths of aircraft crash related carnage for a living and I still have occasional cases that give me trouble (you know....because I'm not a sociopath).  I mention that to someone who is of a CISM mindset and they are shoehorning me into a PTSD diagnosis whereas an independent mental health professional who is up to date sees it for what it is (an empathetic person who is bothered by the death and suffering of others). 

It's one reason- along with the massive body of research that says that it doesn't do what proponents claim that it does- is why CISM programs (at least following the Mitchell model) have largely been abandoned by most national and international organizations except CAP.  The persistence on the part of CAP seems largely due to a handful of the chaplains who are grasping at straws as the secularization of society starts to back them into a corner.

That's why I suggested a Chaplain or the CISM folks. They KNOW how to do this...

[KASSRCrashResearch]

At most air shows cadets are used to keep the public behind the FAA Safety Line. So they should be out of the danger area.
But, if there was a crash I would do two things.
1. Notify the parents. Let them know their kid is safe.
2. Have a Chaplain or another Trained Counselor talk to the cadets about what they saw, if anything. Might be a task for a CISM Team if available.

I agree with this with a caveat: Let the chaplain or a counselor tell them "If you want to talk, we're available".  Make the approach more of a support net and less of an intervention.  That's how you build a person up and help them realize that this, like a penny swallowed by a toddler, will pass given enough time.

Trying to force someone to talk about what they saw or sit through others talking about it can do a lot of harm.  The same goes with trying to make out what are normal transient reactions to traumatic events into something pathological.  That's said as someone who deals with the aftermaths of aircraft crash related carnage for a living and I still have occasional cases that give me trouble (you know....because I'm not a sociopath).  I mention that to someone who is of a CISM mindset and they are shoehorning me into a PTSD diagnosis whereas an independent mental health professional who is up to date sees it for what it is (an empathetic person who is bothered by the death and suffering of others). 

It's one reason- along with the massive body of research that says that it doesn't do what proponents claim that it does- is why CISM programs (at least following the Mitchell model) have largely been abandoned by most national and international organizations except CAP.  The persistence on the part of CAP seems largely due to a handful of the chaplains who are grasping at straws as the secularization of society starts to back them into a corner.

That's why I suggested a Chaplain or the CISM folks. They KNOW how to do this...

Full disclosure: What I am about to say is said as someone who is currently trying to work with the main educational center of his sect to figure out a way to develop an fire/EMS chaplaincy training program since there are very few publicly accessible training programs that aren't run by evangelical Christians.

Eh....depends on the chaplain.   

Going on twenty years of experience in various emergency service organizations and roles, I've seen great, good, bad and deplorable chaplains.   Most fall into the first two categories- my partner on the ambulance service I worked on years ago was also our chaplain and he really helped mold me as a professional- but there are an uncomfortably large number who have less than stellar motivations. Granted, my opinion of the CAP chaplaincy I have dealt with exactly three CAP chaplains over the years (two within the past year as my involvement with CAP has increased).  One I don't have an opinion of because I didn't deal with him long enough to form an opinion.  The second was a pretty decent guy although he seemed a little too pushy on trying to convert anyone who got within arm's reach.  The third is a hardliner who pretty much has zero business trying to deal with someone who is dealing with a traumatic experience.  It's more about the "Look at me! I'm helping! Look at the position of something approaching authority that I hold!" glory-hounding than it is about being a responsible and useful resource.  That sort of behavior just makes my skin crawl in any setting and it's even worse when it is done by someone in a trusted position like a chaplain.

CISM....I stand with the science and thus by my previous comment.  The problem is that they know how to do CISM.  The problem is that CISM either has no effect or has demonstrable negative effects on people it is used on.

[Chappie]

Sorry to hear that you have not had a good experience with some of our CAP Chaplains.  I can assure you that we (the Chaplain Corps) have addressed the training needs for responding to such events/incidents that occurred today.  Within the next few months a new Mission Chaplain SQTR will be introduced.  In addition, a mentoring program is aggressively being worked on.  Since my days as a Wing Chaplain I have worked off the following corollary: "All chaplains should be pastors (in the sense of providing comfort, care, service), but not all pastors should be chaplains".   There are a lot of fine ministers who cannot make the transition from a local church/synagogue/parish/mosque setting to serve in a secular/pluralistic environment.  That is something which we are endeavoring to change.  As you may be aware, any type of culture change needs to take education and time.

[Hummingbird]

Oh boy oh boy.

I was recently at a glider demonstration(It was horrifically under-advertised, and only 10-15 people showed up. Cadets outnumbered the guests. I literally ended up walking back and forth for "crowd control" without any more than 4 guests in a group)

Really, we were told was "Keep everyone away from the crash, and make sure the ambulances and emergency vehicles can get through and they know where to get through." Maybe we need something beefier. I might bring this up at our next meeting.

[C/SrA Ravlin]

What about those cadets who are trained in ICS and first air and can help before Emergency Services can arrive on the scene. Say the plane crashes and you hear the pilot alive inside the plane. Can we go and help them and help keep the crowd back? I know, speaking for myself, that I would feel terrible if I knew that the pilot was alive and I was a few hundred yard away and able to help...

[Live2Learn]

Really, we were told was "Keep everyone away from the crash, and make sure the ambulances and emergency vehicles can get through and they know where to get through." Maybe we need something beefier. I might bring this up at our next meeting.

Should be some discussion of the potential for a crash (1) in the pre-activity ORM; (2) in the pre-activity safety briefing.  FWIW, it's not unheard of for CAP safety briefings to be a waste.  For example, I recall attending safety briefs at NESA 2010 where pilots were told about bathrooms and the dangers of not washing hands before meals.  After (but not before) a tornado went through the safety discussion was about proper aircraft tiedown procedures.  I don't recall any discussion of how to address potential flight line mishaps or aircraft crashes. Since then I've heard a few safety officers mention post crash response, but it still comes up in only a small minority of briefings.