ABUs

[grindstaff2000]

If it hurts your sensibilities that one cadet

Where is that letter posted on National?

All commanders received heads up today. The letter will be posted tomorrow. The letter includes the uniform illustrations. We will have to switch to dark blue tapes.
Doesn't appear to be. Probably tomorrow.

[Eclipse]

If it hurts your sensibilities that one cadet is not in the same uniform....solve THAT problem.

I'm all ears as to how to solve it, especially if they aren't from my unit or even wing...

[C/CMSgt Allen]

I am really excited for the ABU's! They look really nice and professional. My only problem is that the switch may be costly.

[Storm Chaser]

It's postured that the uniform is part of the brand and the image is important, and
then the image is diluted, to no one's benefit, for an extended period of time.

More than the transition to another uniform, I think continuing to prevent members from wearing certain uniforms really hurts our uniformity and brand as an organization. A transition to the BBDU, a decent looking uniform, for all our members would have solved part of that problem.

[NIN]

More than the transition to another uniform, I think continuing to prevent members from wearing certain uniforms really hurts our uniformity and brand as an organization. A transition to the BBDU, a decent looking uniform, for all our members would have solved part of that problem.

Well, we're not.  And the more you bring it up, the less likely it is to happen.

[NIN]

And here I was, hoping approval won't come for another 3-4 months, so that I could actually be in H&W...

You have like 5 years, you know....

[KASSRCrashResearch]

Really? Is that why everyone in the USAF hates them?

Airmen would complain if you gave them access to an open bar and free food.  It's just the nature of the beast. 

Yep, all the funny hats are banned

The sooner the "Please don't shoot me! I'm not a deer!" orange ball cap goes away the better.  LOL  When I first started looking into CAP I was like "WTF?" when I saw those. 

So I guess I get to wear ABUs after all since they were phased in after I got out of the AF.  At least that settles the question of what to get.  LOL

[maxd200]

YES!!! AT LAST, WE GET ABU'S!!!

[Майор Хаткевич]

And here I was, hoping approval won't come for another 3-4 months, so that I could actually be in H&W...

You have like 5 years, you know...

Technically I have no time limits...BBDUs and all.

Was just hoping to beat the punch.

[NIN]

Where is the uniformity when one cadet in ranks is in a completely different uniform?

What is the brand image that lines up 4 senior members in different color combos,
all who are 100% correct?

How is this Efficient or Effective?

You know, having been thru this before (pickle-suits to BDUs), the whole "uniformity in ranks" thing is a complete non-starter argument.   And my experience was that the people who shouted the loudest about this  were the people who didn't know exactly what the hell they were talking about. 

Real live no kidding statements, circa 1991: "This will be the END of Civil Air Patrol if we have cadets in formation in both BDUs and fatigues!"  and "There will be a breakdown in military discipline if you have people in two different uniforms!!" 

If I'm not mistaken, 25 years later CAP is still here, and this Great Prognosticator isn't.   Funny how that works. 

(and as I remember, that guy had zero military experience, so I'm not 100% sure where he was getting his information from WRT the so-called "breakdown in military discipline" to be making these grand pronouncements.  Those of us who were in the military were like "Nobody cares what clothes you wear to formation.  If 'military discipline' [whatever that means] is going to "break down" due to the color of a cadet's uniform compared to others, well,  maybe we have other problems. Like you.")

Keep in mind, too, that this was during the First Gulf War, when people were  going to Saudi Arabia to actually fight a war wearing BDUs, chocolate-chip desert cammies, etc.  IOW, there were literally situations where units did not have the same uniform for everybody.  Green nametapes instead of desert, woodland camo helmet covers with desert uniforms, blah, blah, blah.  And oh, hey, look:  the guy in deserts here and they guy in BDUs over there did exactly what they needed to do regardless of the color of their uniform.

And if "brand identity thru uniformity" is a problem, well, I'll just leave this right here:



Bottom line: We'll live.

[Luis R. Ramos]

Hey!

Some messages were removed!

[winterg]

I'm happy CAP is moving to the ABU to put us (well, some of us) in the uniform if our parent organization.  But this was a perfect opportunity to reduce all the clutter on the field uniform and they dropped the ball on that.
I've been to NBB a couple times and I could care less that that all the 'funny' hats have been removed. But they should have done the same with the plethora of patches. 

Transmitted via my R5 astromech.

[THRAWN]

Hey, that's super. Great new spiffy uniform so that CAP can mirror big AF. Now that we have our wardrobe all set, can we focus on the missions now?

[Angus]

Well, I am surprised the word came out now, I was expecting at the National Conference.  But it has been said, so it shall be done.  I have to agree with the arguments against those who say that having cadets and seniors in different uniforms is a non starter.  Remember we're being told that CAP is getting a significant number of excess ABUs.  If all units get them then the time frame of people not being dressed alike will be minimal.  And for those where it could be a problem it may not be for long. 

[Angus]

But this was a perfect opportunity to reduce all the clutter on the field uniform and they dropped the ball on that.

They started to move in that direction by eliminating the right shoulder patch as well as the ES patch worn over the name tape.  At the same time the patches on the pockets remain as they always have OPTIONAL.  Nothing is forcing you to put something on them.  I for one am thinking of wearing just the basics when I transition in a few months once I ditch the excess padding.  Even on my BBDU I think I may cut down when I transition that over to the new tapes next month. 

[stillamarine]

You know, having been thru this before (pickle-suits to BDUs), the whole "uniformity in ranks" thing is a complete non-starter argument.   And my experience was that the people who shouted the loudest about this  were the people who didn't know exactly what the hell they were talking about. 

Real live no kidding statements, circa 1991: "This will be the END of Civil Air Patrol if we have cadets in formation in both BDUs and fatigues!"  and "There will be a breakdown in military discipline if you have people in two different uniforms!!" 

If I'm not mistaken, 25 years later CAP is still here, and this Great Prognosticator isn't.   Funny how that works. 

That was exactly my experience as well. Langley Composite Squadron. A billion years ago. I have a picture somewhere of my dad and I before I left for Kadena Cadet Squadron's encampment at the Kadena AB NCO Academy in 88 or 89. I'm wearing pickle suit, he's wearing BDU's (of course he was AF and not a CAP SM.)

[Майор Хаткевич]

But this was a perfect opportunity to reduce all the clutter on the field uniform and they dropped the ball on that.

They started to move in that direction by eliminating the right shoulder patch as well as the ES patch worn over the name tape.  At the same time the patches on the pockets remain as they always have OPTIONAL.  Nothing is forcing you to put something on them.  I for one am thinking of wearing just the basics when I transition in a few months once I ditch the excess padding.  Even on my BBDU I think I may cut down when I transition that over to the new tapes next month.

All you are required to have is 3 grade insignia, name and branch tapes. Nothing else HAS to be on the uniform. Wing patches are (now everywhere?) optional. NCSA/Squadron? Optional. Badges? Optional.

[winterg]

Yes.  I realize it is optional. We all  do. But given the option, some will always wear the maximum allowed, not the minimum.  My opinion is that the overall appearance of our field uniform, as an organization, would have been better served if this major uniform change was used to go in a more minimalist direction.  Again, I know what I am allowed to leave off my uniform.  No need to keep pointing it out.  LoL

Transmitted via my R5 astromech.

[NIN]

Wing patches are not intended to be "optional at the member's discretion" but rather "optional at the wing's discretion" nationally.

You can have 100 guys standing in formation and not everybody is wearing all their qual badges (those are a "personal" qualification).  Some people may not possess qualification badges, even.  But they should all have the same shoulder patch (an "organizational" qualification if you will..)

I don't know of any (off the top of my head) wing that has eliminated wing patches entirely, or has made them "member optional." (there may well be, but I can't point to one at the moment).

[Simple Jack]

Thank yooooooo

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