Aircraft data downlink to ground team?

[Spam]

I don't think its the same capability we're discussing, but rather one that's strongly centralized in management, and as I understand it, our ROVER systems were specifically designed not to be two way links between CAP assets at all (aircraft/GT/GT/aircraft).
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V/R
Spam

Actually, GIIEP when working allows mission base to retask the aircrew in flight and through real time IM, when it is working.  Nothing says you cannot put a tough book with a ground team, it is not limited to the aircaraft.

Ah, if it were only a Toughbook. It isn't, according to the brief... the ROVER ground side config appears to also require a vehicle mounted LRU and peripherals suitable for mounting in a Humvee. Am I incorrect there, or does this rule out dismounted use?  Keeping in mind that the CAP earth side configs seem to be specifically defined as rx only, too.

Also, to respond to Rogue Leader, no, I've never had any real issues either, retasking an aircraft when I was an IC, so I'm not sure what capability growth that adds, but it would seem hard to do so using a CAP receive only ground side ROVER station!

V/R
Spam

[Larry Mangum]

How hard is it for you to retask aircrews in-flight?  I've never had any issues with it.

When GIIEP is working, you can get real time video or stills, examine them, and while they are still over the target ahve them take additional photos or reshoot the one they took.

[JeffDG]

Even sitting on the ground, with line of sight to the cell tower, I've never gotten more that 1/2 frame per second video with GIIEP.  Stills on the other hand work quite well on the ground and in the air.

CAP has never had ROVER capability, those have classified elements that the NG uses if I recall my training correctly.

[Larry Mangum]

Even sitting on the ground, with line of sight to the cell tower, I've never gotten more that 1/2 frame per second video with GIIEP.  Stills on the other hand work quite well on the ground and in the air.

CAP has never had ROVER capability, those have classified elements that the NG uses if I recall my training correctly.

Jeff is correct, GIIEP does not require a ROVER.  BTW, ROVER's can be used in a matter that requires classified elements, however all SP aircraft use ROVERS when we are supporting the JTAC's and the use does not require a security clearance as they are not used to transmit classified information.

[Chaplaindon]

Back in the early 90s, we (Texas Wing) tried using 1.2 GHz (analog) Amateur "Ham" Television (ATV) from CAP aircraft for use, particularly, in DR settings (such as the then-recent Brazos River flood).

I was actively involved in the experiment.

It worked (sort of) but was operationally unsuccessful/impractical, then, for several reasons.

Primarily it was due to issues with analog television (and antennae polarization) from a maneuvering aircraft. Also the commercially procured ATV hardware (the best then available, no less) was of poor quality.

That said, as (then) a SAR/DR IC, I saw the utility of such real-time video downlink capability, IF the technology had been up to the task.

Granted, the use of amateur hardware and frequencies has been prohibited for quite some time (AFTER the TXWG experiment, of course).

It seems to me that if we can routinely "Facetime" with someone around the world via our smartphone, we SHOULD be able to find a practical way to stream aerial imagery live from our aircraft (ground teams too) in support of our operations.

As a now-retired IC, I can still envision its utility.

[Brad]

Keep in mind, any additional radio frequency needs must be coordinated through National and the AF. Our current frequencies are not approved for data transmission.

Correction on that. Per CAPR 100-1 para. 8.6.6

8.6.6. Data via radio. NHQ/DOK may select and authorize systems for transmission of data via HF or VHF radio, such as computer files or position reporting. All other proposals for transmission of data via CAP radio systems must be fully coordinated and have potential for use across the country. Because CAP frequency assignments may not all be authorized for digital data modes, all experimentation must be coordinated in advance with NHQ/DOKE.

For what it's worth I've seen HF data in-person, or at least the program we're getting that will interface with the HF modems that the Micoms will be receiving. Looks just like an email program, and from my understanding that is when we'll start getting actual Whiskey messages, instead of the training Whiskey Tango messages. These messages will contain encoded instructions for WMIRS and who knows what else.

[etodd]

I have yet to see a demonstrated need for real time data that aligns with our capabilities.

We are not first responders and we're not plucking people off rooftops with helos.  We need to be realistic about our missions.  We have radios for real time requests.  Any imaging efforts we have are more than adequately fulfilled with the minor delay to imaging (a few hours max).  So, what specifically is the need?

Bingo. And now its even less than a few hours. As soon as the plane returns the AP can pull out the laptop and start uploading files directly to the FEMA website.

Actually, GIIEP when working allows mission base to retask the aircrew in flight and through real time IM, when it is working.

Yes, I'm sure some folks in charge at Mission Base would enjoy seeing the view, but trusting the trained flight crew to know what they are seeing and accurately reporting it via radio is not a problem and is much easier with less technology to have to worry about.