In which states is CAP the primary resource for air SAR?

[Holding Pattern]

I know that some states have their own air SAR units that go before CAP is called. Is this every state or just a handful?

[Eclipse]

As usual that's a complicated conversation - all SAR or AFRCC SAR?

My wing actually has (or at least had) an MOU on the air SAR side, but that was limited to anything the AFRCC
dispatched as making CAP the lead.   Other air SAR falls to local agencies until and / or if CAP is brought in by the local
agency, and then we are probably not the lead.

[jeders]

STATE SAR AGREEMENTS: Each state has a search and rescue agreement on file in the AFRCC that delineates the responsible agency and coordinating requirements for the various types of SAR missions.

AFRCC would probably be the ones to ask. I remember several years seeing a chart that outlined what agency was responsible for ground and air SAR in a state, though for the life of me I can't remember where. As I recall, CAP was the primary for air SAR in about/a little more than half of the states and was the primary in ground SAR for about 1/4-1/3 of the states.

I can tell you that in Texas, the lead agency is always Department of Public Safety (DPS) and CAP usually isn't called for SAR until 6-12 hours after DPS has started. Adding to Eclipse's point in another thread about why there's no reason to rush the safety checklist in order to get the mission accomplished. I'll take my payment in small unmarked bills or donuts.

[etodd]

I know that some states have their own air SAR units that go before CAP is called. Is this every state or just a handful?

States? How about local municipalities?

Here locally the police and sheriff's departments have helicopters.  They are first responders, and if not already airborne, can be in minutes. I don't think we get called until they have given up.

[sardak]

AFRCC has an MOU with 50 of the 52 wings (Alaska and Hawaii don't fall under AFRCC) and their corresponding state or state equivalent (Nat Cap and Puerto Rico). The MOU outlines what agency is the lead for, and which agency (or agencies) can contact AFRCC for federal resources for:
ELT/EPIRB search
PLB search
Missing aircraft search
Missing person search

In only four jurisdictions - Colorado, DC, Louisiana and Nebraska - is CAP the lead agency for missing aircraft search.
CAP is not the lead for PLB or missing person search in any jurisdiction.
CAP is the lead for ELT/EPIRB search in just a few places (there was a discrepancy in AFRCC's number, haven't heard the final tally).

In addition to the MOU, there is an MOA signed by the Governor and 1AF Commander, explaining how the National SAR Plan works and that its implementation is through the MOU.

Mike

[Holding Pattern]

STATE SAR AGREEMENTS: Each state has a search and rescue agreement on file in the AFRCC that delineates the responsible agency and coordinating requirements for the various types of SAR missions.

AFRCC would probably be the ones to ask. I remember several years seeing a chart that outlined what agency was responsible for ground and air SAR in a state, though for the life of me I can't remember where. As I recall, CAP was the primary for air SAR in about/a little more than half of the states and was the primary in ground SAR for about 1/4-1/3 of the states.

I can tell you that in Texas, the lead agency is always Department of Public Safety (DPS) and CAP usually isn't called for SAR until 6-12 hours after DPS has started. Adding to Eclipse's point in another thread about why there's no reason to rush the safety checklist in order to get the mission accomplished. I'll take my payment in small unmarked bills or donuts.

If you find that chart I will come up with a methodology of getting donuts to you. Seriously.

EDIT: I've found based on the info in this thread a combo of google queries that gets me what I need. Thanks to everyone.

[etodd]

AFRCC has an MOU with 50 of the 52 wings (Alaska and Hawaii don't fall under AFRCC) and their corresponding state or state equivalent (Nat Cap and Puerto Rico). The MOU outlines what agency is the lead for, and which agency (or agencies) can contact AFRCC for federal resources for:
ELT/EPIRB search
PLB search
Missing aircraft search
Missing person search

In only four jurisdictions - Colorado, DC, Louisiana and Nebraska - is CAP the lead agency for missing aircraft search.
CAP is not the lead for PLB or missing person search in any jurisdiction.
CAP is the lead for ELT/EPIRB search in just a few places (there was a discrepancy in AFRCC's number, haven't heard the final tally).

In addition to the MOU, there is an MOA signed by the Governor and 1AF Commander, explaining how the National SAR Plan works and that its implementation is through the MOU.

Mike

All of that is still only after getting to the AFRCC stage ... correct?

When a farmer in our area calls 911 and says he saw a plane flying low and heard a noise like a crash, the 911 operator is going to send it to the local police who will dispatch their helicopter first.  It may be many hours of searching with police, sheriff and others before someone scratches their head and says lets call the AFRCC.

IOW ... local folks want to get the news headlines of the 'find and save' before it goes to Fed levels.

Or am I wrong ... and its somewhere in the guidelines/laws/regs/etc. that AFRCC has to be notified immediately of a possible downed plane?

[sardak]

Correct, the AFRCC MOU and MOA only apply when federal assistance is requested. Here is boilerplate from them:

This agreement provides for federal assistance to local or state agencies conducting SAR missions. Also, state agencies, when possible, will provide assistance to the AFRCC.

The AFRCC will be notified if federal assistance, to include CAP, is desired by the state.

No provision of this agreement is to be construed as an obstruction to prompt and effective action by federal, state or local SAR officials to relieve distress wherever and whenever found.

All non-civil SAR incidents will be under the operational direction of the AFRCC.  Non-Civil SAR incidents are defined as those incidents involving scheduled air carriers, aircraft operating under the provisions of the International Civil Aviation Organization agreements, aircraft on interstate flights, missions of national concern such as designated National Special Security Events and Special Events Homeland Security, and missions involving military personnel and/or equipment.

Mike

[stillamarine]

IOW ... local folks want to get the news headlines of the 'find and save' before it goes to Fed levels.

As one of those "local folks" I'm gonna go ahead and take offense to your assumption that we'd chase headlines before using whatever resources necessary and that we are aware of to resolve a situation. I would bet my pension that MOST Sheriffs and Police Chiefs no nothing about CAP and the ability to call them in. Most the time they don't call because they don't know they can call.

No, most agencies do not have aircraft. Actually only 20% of departments over 100 officers have an aircraft. Not even all state agencies have an aviation unit. My department is the largest in the state and hasn't had an aircraft in 30 years.

Those are the relationships we should be working on.

[etodd]

I would bet my pension that MOST Sheriffs and Police Chiefs no nothing about CAP and the ability to call them in. Most the time they don't call because they don't know they can call.

75 years is a long time to get the word out.

Is there literature, information packets, etc., that we can take to these Departments and spread the word? As a newbie I don't know who in each Squadron that type of activity would fall under. Or whether any Senior Member could drop by some of these agencies, large and small, and let folks know we are here? Stopping by in uniform with a box of donuts can help get one past the front door usually.

[Eclipse]

Is there literature, information packets, etc., that we can take to these Departments and spread the word?

Yes.

As a newbie I don't know who in each Squadron that type of activity would fall under.

The ESO and the Commander, not to mention your Group (if you have them) & Wing ESO.

[Holding Pattern]

I would bet my pension that MOST Sheriffs and Police Chiefs no nothing about CAP and the ability to call them in. Most the time they don't call because they don't know they can call.

75 years is a long time to get the word out.

Is there literature, information packets, etc., that we can take to these Departments and spread the word? As a newbie I don't know who in each Squadron that type of activity would fall under. Or whether any Senior Member could drop by some of these agencies, large and small, and let folks know we are here? Stopping by in uniform with a box of donuts can help get one past the front door usually.

The trick is to make sure your squadron is able to put up resources before you drop off your donuts and literature.

Also, there is just the simple issue that there isn't much in the way of the traditional SAR we are associated with anymore, thanks to GPS. This means that even if you do drop off pamphlets and donuts, if no calls come in for a year, there may have simply been no calls.

The better plan is to get a copy of your local comprehensive emergency management plan, find out who the coordinator is, and then after you read the entire plan, get details on how CAP fits into the plan.

[stillamarine]

Getting in good with your county EMA is good as well. The county I work in, Jefferson, EMA director is a good friend. He has said in the past that he wants to get CAP involved. I've given his contact info to the Wing multiple times to the last 2 Chiefs of Staff. He still hasn't been called. Unfortunately my squadron is in a different county. Sometimes CAP drops the ball and doesn't cultivate those relationships. We have a lot of tornadoes through here and the opportunity to assist with DR and disaster assessment is there. Seems to me the wing doesn't want to do it.

[Flying Pig]

IOW ... local folks want to get the news headlines of the 'find and save' before it goes to Fed levels.

As one of those "local folks" I'm gonna go ahead and take offense to your assumption that we'd chase headlines before using whatever resources necessary and that we are aware of to resolve a situation. I would bet my pension that MOST Sheriffs and Police Chiefs no nothing about CAP and the ability to call them in. Most the time they don't call because they don't know they can call.

No, most agencies do not have aircraft. Actually only 20% of departments over 100 officers have an aircraft. Not even all state agencies have an aviation unit. My department is the largest in the state and hasn't had an aircraft in 30 years.

Those are the relationships we should be working on.

I love it when people say LE agencies dont call for help because they want the headlines.  Ive worked for 4 agencies in 2 states spanning 20 years.  I have yet to be in a meeting where anyone has made a decision on a SAR based on headlines.   But good to know the urban legends continue, even spread here on CAPTalk. 

[EMT-83]

I love it when people say LE agencies dont call for help because they want the headlines.  Ive worked for 4 agencies in 2 states spanning 20 years.  I have yet to be in a meeting where anyone has made a decision on a SAR based on headlines.   But good to know the urban legends continue, even spread here on CAPTalk.

I don't know how you cops handle it, but us fire guys have it all worked out before we climb on the engine.

[stillamarine]

I love it when people say LE agencies dont call for help because they want the headlines.  Ive worked for 4 agencies in 2 states spanning 20 years.  I have yet to be in a meeting where anyone has made a decision on a SAR based on headlines.   But good to know the urban legends continue, even spread here on CAPTalk.

I don't know how you cops handle it, but us fire guys have it all worked out before we climb on the engine.

Most of us cops try to hide when the media shows up on scene. I was ticked when I realized the First 48 had about a good 10 minutes of me talking with a detective.

[stillamarine]

Also interesting, ALWG has worked 3 ELTs in the last month that I'm aware of. 2 in the last 24 hours. With a little help from FLWG because the aircraft hit it's 100 hour.

[etodd]

Also interesting, ALWG has worked 3 ELTs in the last month that I'm aware of. 2 in the last 24 hours. With a little help from FLWG because the aircraft hit it's 100 hour.

I'd like to hear the back story on the one found in an aquarium. LOL

[stillamarine]

Also interesting, ALWG has worked 3 ELTs in the last month that I'm aware of. 2 in the last 24 hours. With a little help from FLWG because the aircraft hit it's 100 hour.

I'd like to hear the back story on the one found in an aquarium. LOL

Right!!

[KASSRCrashResearch]

IOW ... local folks want to get the news headlines of the 'find and save' before it goes to Fed levels.

As one of those "local folks" I'm gonna go ahead and take offense to your assumption that we'd chase headlines before using whatever resources necessary and that we are aware of to resolve a situation. I would bet my pension that MOST Sheriffs and Police Chiefs no nothing about CAP and the ability to call them in. Most the time they don't call because they don't know they can call.

Thank you, since I am not a CAP member (yet....I am about to join a local squadron as a result of encouragement from several of the members of this forum over the past year after I signed up here to seek information on an unsuccessful search back in the 1980s) I was a little offended at his comment as well.  I have to agree that the issue is a breakdown between the county/state EMAs and CAP.  I am not sure where the breakdown happens but then again in my experience....a lot of county emergency management agencies are run by people whose entire knowledge of operations come from taking a couple of FEMA ICS courses online.  God save Queen Nepotism, long may she reign.

[Flying Pig]

IOW ... local folks want to get the news headlines of the 'find and save' before it goes to Fed levels.

As one of those "local folks" I'm gonna go ahead and take offense to your assumption that we'd chase headlines before using whatever resources necessary and that we are aware of to resolve a situation. I would bet my pension that MOST Sheriffs and Police Chiefs no nothing about CAP and the ability to call them in. Most the time they don't call because they don't know they can call.

Thank you, since I am not a CAP member (yet....I am about to join a local squadron as a result of encouragement from several of the members of this forum over the past year after I signed up here to seek information on an unsuccessful search back in the 1980s) I was a little offended at his comment as well.  I have to agree that the issue is a breakdown between the county/state EMAs and CAP.  I am not sure where the breakdown happens but then again in my experience....a lot of county emergency management agencies are run by people whose entire knowledge of operations come from taking a couple of FEMA ICS courses online.  God save Queen Nepotism, long may she reign.

Many times it can depend on where you are. Lets face it, there are areas of the country where very little in the way of "Emergency Management"   occurs.... EVER.  Then you have places like FL, CA, coastal counties up the Eastern US and the gulf, where routine massive disasters are a yearly event. You'll definitely attract a different pool of applicants in FL than you will in AZ.

[stillamarine]

IOW ... local folks want to get the news headlines of the 'find and save' before it goes to Fed levels.

As one of those "local folks" I'm gonna go ahead and take offense to your assumption that we'd chase headlines before using whatever resources necessary and that we are aware of to resolve a situation. I would bet my pension that MOST Sheriffs and Police Chiefs no nothing about CAP and the ability to call them in. Most the time they don't call because they don't know they can call.

Thank you, since I am not a CAP member (yet....I am about to join a local squadron as a result of encouragement from several of the members of this forum over the past year after I signed up here to seek information on an unsuccessful search back in the 1980s) I was a little offended at his comment as well.  I have to agree that the issue is a breakdown between the county/state EMAs and CAP.  I am not sure where the breakdown happens but then again in my experience....a lot of county emergency management agencies are run by people whose entire knowledge of operations come from taking a couple of FEMA ICS courses online.  God save Queen Nepotism, long may she reign.

Many times it can depend on where you are. Lets face it, there are areas of the country where very little in the way of "Emergency Management"   occurs.... EVER.  Then you have places like FL, CA, coastal counties up the Eastern US and the gulf, where routine massive disasters are a yearly event. You'll definitely attract a different pool of applicants in FL than you will in AZ.

I grew up on the Gulf Coast. Hurricanes rarely impress me.

[Flying Pig]

For an emergency manager in a gulf state, that would probably be something to put on your resume