CAP Passengers on Proficiency Flights?

[etodd]

CAPR-60 is a little fuzzy, or I'm not looking in the right place. If I'm on a Proficiency Flight "on my own dime" ....can I take any CAP member along for the ride, including Cadet(s)?

If a Cadet was just going for the ride, would it count against their 5 O-Ride limit if they rode front right seat?

IOW ... why fly alone for my Proficiency Flights when there are empty seats available and folks eager to fly?

[Майор Хаткевич]

CAPR-60 is a little fuzzy, or I'm not looking in the right place. If I'm on a Proficiency Flight "on my own dime" ....can I take any CAP member along for the ride, including Cadet(s)?

If a Cadet was just going for the ride, would it count against their 5 O-Ride limit if they rode front right seat?

IOW ... why fly alone for my Proficiency Flights when there are empty seats available and folks eager to fly?

I'm no pilot. But are you O-flight rated? What do the regs say about Cadets flying?

[etodd]

CAPR-60 is a little fuzzy, or I'm not looking in the right place. If I'm on a Proficiency Flight "on my own dime" ....can I take any CAP member along for the ride, including Cadet(s)?

If a Cadet was just going for the ride, would it count against their 5 O-Ride limit if they rode front right seat?

IOW ... why fly alone for my Proficiency Flights when there are empty seats available and folks eager to fly?

I'm no pilot. But are you O-flight rated? What do the regs say about Cadets flying?

Yes, I'm O-Flight rated.  But all the regs deal with the actual O-Flights. I can't find mention of when and if Cadets can fly other than O-Rides.   

[Майор Хаткевич]

CAPR-60 is a little fuzzy, or I'm not looking in the right place. If I'm on a Proficiency Flight "on my own dime" ....can I take any CAP member along for the ride, including Cadet(s)?

If a Cadet was just going for the ride, would it count against their 5 O-Ride limit if they rode front right seat?

IOW ... why fly alone for my Proficiency Flights when there are empty seats available and folks eager to fly?

I'm no pilot. But are you O-flight rated? What do the regs say about Cadets flying?

Yes, I'm O-Flight rated.  But all the regs deal with the actual O-Flights. I can't find mention of when and if Cadets can fly other than O-Rides.

What does CPP say?

[Eclipse]

CAPR-60 is a little fuzzy, or I'm not looking in the right place. If I'm on a Proficiency Flight "on my own dime" ....can I take any CAP member along for the ride, including Cadet(s)?

Senior members with Level 1 can generally go as ballast, but cadets would likely be discouraged at best.
The CPT issues alone make this an iffy proposition, if not impossible.  Also, all mission flying, and CAP proficiency hours are a mission,
are supposed to have a flight profile and purpose.

I also don't think you'd be able to release the flight with them listed on board.

If a Cadet was just going for the ride, would it count against their 5 O-Ride limit if they rode front right seat?

No.  O-rides require approval, can only be flown by an approved O-Ride pilot, and have a specific syllabus.

IOW ... why fly alone for my Proficiency Flights when there are empty seats available and folks eager to fly?

For starters you would run into CPT issues being with a cadet by yourself.  during the sortie you can be 1-up,
but not otherwise.

[etodd]

Oh for sure. I didn't mean just me and one Cadet. But if me and another senior are out on a Proficiency Flight, can a Cadet go along, and could they ride front seat without it counting against their 5 official O-Rides.

[Майор Хаткевич]

Oh for sure. I didn't mean just me and one Cadet. But if me and another senior are out on a Proficiency Flight, can a Cadet go along, and could they ride front seat without it counting against their 5 official O-Rides.

As Eclipse wrote, O-Rides have a specific process and a syllabus. Anything outside of that is not an O-flight, but it is a good idea not to run afoul of any other flight regs.

[etodd]

Oh for sure. I didn't mean just me and one Cadet. But if me and another senior are out on a Proficiency Flight, can a Cadet go along, and could they ride front seat without it counting against their 5 official O-Rides.

As Eclipse wrote, O-Rides have a specific process and a syllabus. Anything outside of that is not an O-flight, but it is a good idea not to run afoul of any other flight regs.

Yep. Which is why I'm asking.  I just can't find any mention of Cadet ride alongs. Seems like as long as the rule of three is applied, the extra flight time for Cadets would be encouraged.  But until I get some definitive answers, of course I'll hold off.  Maybe I'm missing some regs or policies elsewhere.

[Майор Хаткевич]

Oh for sure. I didn't mean just me and one Cadet. But if me and another senior are out on a Proficiency Flight, can a Cadet go along, and could they ride front seat without it counting against their 5 official O-Rides.

As Eclipse wrote, O-Rides have a specific process and a syllabus. Anything outside of that is not an O-flight, but it is a good idea not to run afoul of any other flight regs.

Yep. Which is why I'm asking.  I just can't find any mention of Cadet ride alongs. Seems like as long as the rule of three is applied, the extra flight time for Cadets would be encouraged.  But until I get some definitive answers, of course I'll hold off.  Maybe I'm missing some regs or policies elsewhere.

What about the mission point Eclipse brought up?

[Eclipse]

Military style regulations are written in a "only what is written is authorized".

Thus, they tell you what you can do, to the exclusion of anything else.

[etodd]

I keep running into wording like this:

As part of Civil Air Patrol's aerospace education mission, cadets under 18 years of age are allowed five front-seat rides inpowered aircraft, plus five rides in gliders.  Cadets who have had all of their front-seat rides can ride along in the back seat as many times as they wish until they turn 18.

So is that back seat time in ANY flight ... or just in O-Rides where other Cadets are flying front seat?

Its clear as mud.

As for the 'mission' I'm talking about Profiency flights for Seniors, with an empty back seat where Cadets or other Seniors could ride along and watch and learn from the two in front.

[HGjunkie]

Military style regulations are written in a "only what is written is authorized".

Thus, they tell you what you can do, to the exclusion of anything else.

In the Air Force, yes. In the military as a whole, not quite.

[Eclipse]

CAPR-60 is a little fuzzy, or I'm not looking in the right place. If I'm on a Proficiency Flight "on my own dime" ....can I take any CAP member along for the ride, including Cadet(s)?

The answer is "yes", and it's not fuzzy:

CAPR 60-1, Page 9. http://www.capmembers.com/media/cms/R060_001_E70E3BAE1C0D4.pdf

2-3. Passenger Requirements. Authorized passengers are current CAP members whose
category of membership allows them to ride in corporate aircraft as specified in CAPR 39-2,
Civil Air Patrol Membership, CAP employees, ROTC/JROTC cadets (ROTC/JROTC flight
orientation program only), International Air Cadet Exchange (IACE) orientation flight cadets and
escorts, CAP-USAF personnel conducting official business, FAA Inspectors, or FAA designated
pilot examiners during flight evaluations.

There is also this requirement:
Page 9
f. Only pilots that are qualified as CAP instructors, cadet and ROTC/JROTC orientation pilots, SAR/DR or transport mission pilots (during supervised missions) may carry CAP cadets as passengers or crew members. At no time may a pilot who is a CAP cadet carry another CAP cadet as a passenger or crew member.

So the typical low-time pilot building hours is not allowed to fly cadets, and if you're an O-ride pilot,
why would you fly cadets on your own nickel when there is funded flying available?

[Eclipse]

I keep running into wording like this:

As part of Civil Air Patrol's aerospace education mission, cadets under 18 years of age are allowed five front-seat rides in powered aircraft, plus five rides in gliders.  Cadets who have had all of their front-seat rides can ride along in the back seat as many times as they wish until they turn 18.

So is that back seat time in ANY flight ... or just in O-Rides where other Cadets are flying front seat?

It's very clear, and it's just orientation rides, on an orientation sortie, with an orientation pilot.

[etodd]

I keep running into wording like this:

As part of Civil Air Patrol's aerospace education mission, cadets under 18 years of age are allowed five front-seat rides in powered aircraft, plus five rides in gliders.  Cadets who have had all of their front-seat rides can ride along in the back seat as many times as they wish until they turn 18.

So is that back seat time in ANY flight ... or just in O-Rides where other Cadets are flying front seat?

It's very clear, and it's just orientation rides, on an orientation sortie, with an orientation pilot.

OK. I'll defer to the experienced folks here. I'm the newbie trying to fly a few hours each month and just hate to see those Cadets miss opportunities. But I'm sure there are good reasons.

[lordmonar]

So the typical low-time pilot building hours is not allowed to fly cadets, and if you're an O-ride pilot,
why would you fly cadets on your own nickel when there is funded flying available?

On the other hand.....if you are gonna fly on your own dime and you got an empty seat (and you are a O-ride/instructor/etc) why not put a cadet in that seat? 

Keeping to the no-lone rule for CPP.

[etodd]

So the typical low-time pilot building hours is not allowed to fly cadets, and if you're an O-ride pilot,
why would you fly cadets on your own nickel when there is funded flying available?

Yes, I'm an O-Ride pilot. Yes there are 5 "funded"  O-Rides available for a Cadet who joins at age 12 and stays until 18. Thats less than once a year. Maybe twice if they ride back seat.

I'm a guy with 5 kids and 7 grandkids that I take flying often for fun flights in OTHER airplanes. And they will often bring along their friends. Been sharing the love of aviation with kids for years. Member of EAA as well and a Young Eagles Pilot. I don't mind at all paying for planes here and there to try and jumpstart a kid's interest in aviation.

I was just hoping to do some more of the same in CAP.  But obviously will just have to settle for the occasional O-Ride day. All is good.

[etodd]

So the typical low-time pilot building hours is not allowed to fly cadets, and if you're an O-ride pilot,
why would you fly cadets on your own nickel when there is funded flying available?

On the other hand.....if you are gonna fly on your own dime and you got an empty seat (and you are a O-ride/instructor/etc) why not put a cadet in that seat? 

Keeping to the no-lone rule for CPP.

Sounds good to me, but others above don't think its a good idea. So whats a guy to do? Stay conservative I guess.  LOL

[Майор Хаткевич]

So the typical low-time pilot building hours is not allowed to fly cadets, and if you're an O-ride pilot,
why would you fly cadets on your own nickel when there is funded flying available?

Yes, I'm an O-Ride pilot. Yes there are 5 "funded"  O-Rides available for a Cadet who joins at age 12 and stays until 18. Thats less than once a year. Maybe twice if they ride back seat.

I'm a guy with 5 kids and 7 grandkids that I take flying often for fun flights in OTHER airplanes. And they will often bring along their friends. Been sharing the love of aviation with kids for years. Member of EAA as well and a Young Eagles Pilot. I don't mind at all paying for planes here and there to try and jumpstart a kid's interest in aviation.

I was just hoping to do some more of the same in CAP.  But obviously will just have to settle for the occasional O-Ride day. All is good.

Cadets can get all 5 in a day if that were to be the situation. Then they have access to extremely affordable flight academies beyond that.

[Eclipse]

But obviously will just have to settle for the occasional O-Ride day.

You do not have to wait for an O-ride day.

You can fly o-rides any time you have access to a plane and the cadets. and Ma Blue will happily pay for it.

Meeting nights are an especially good time to fly O-rides, especially in the spring and summer.

Most wings leave money on the table every year, and there are always cadets who need rides and 99s.