Fastest Completion of Cadet Program?

[schloonk]

I am a C/MSgt and am currently eligible to promote every 28 days due to AFJROTC. I've only been in the program seven months and I plan on promoting all the way to the Spaatz. Out of curiosity, what's the shortest time it took a cadet to reach the Spaatz? Theoretically, the shortest time would be 21 months (16 achievements plus 5 milestones, one per month) with advanced promotion.

[lordmonar]

I don't know if anyone has kept that sort of data.

Spaatz's are so rare the no one really cares about who was the fastest.

And there are a lot of people out there that would actively slow down anyone who seemed to be burning through the program.

Good luck. 

Don't slow down once you get to the officer ranks.   Knock out those SDAs and keep taking your tests.  Keep up your PT.

The SDA's seem to be the biggest hold up for officer progression (and I don't know why).
Following that is finding time to study for YOUR tests while doing all your leadership jobs.
And finally.....it seems that the PT test is the big killer for those taking their Spaatz.

Good luck.

[Garibaldi]

I don't know if anyone has kept that sort of data.

Spaatz's are so rare the no one really cares about who was the fastest.

And there are a lot of people out there that would actively slow down anyone who seemed to be burning through the program.

Good luck. 

Don't slow down once you get to the officer ranks.   Knock out those SDAs and keep taking your tests.  Keep up your PT.

The SDA's seem to be the biggest hold up for officer progression (and I don't know why).
Following that is finding time to study for YOUR tests while doing all your leadership jobs.
And finally.....it seems that the PT test is the big killer for those taking their Spaatz.

Good luck.

Gee, try telling that to my 14 year old Earhart cadet. She was so good, she aced everything, first time, every time. All tests 100%, all PFT maxed, all SDAs well written and thought out. Promoted every 2 months on the dot...almost as if she had help....from her mother....who was the DCC....and also assistant testing officer....

Can you tell I'm STILL bitter about that, after 10 years?

[ironputts]

I am a proponent of pacing yourself to get the maximum experience at each phase. I have had several cadets do well and were promoted quickly but didn't get the time experience which they admitted could have made the journey better. Each promotion should bring you to different responsibilities in the flight and each brings growth and understanding. I applaud those that advance in rank quickly and hope they still gain the experience necessary to lead in the future!

[PHall]

Any particular reason you "feel the need for speed" in your promotions?
Because it's not a race...

[Mitchell 1969]

I remember a long-ago Spaatz awardee who got it when he was 15. I think the minimum entry age then was 13, so it took him +- 2 years.

My reaction when I heard about it was "Poor guy.  He can't even drive yet.  What's he going to do in his cadet career for the next 3-6 years?

[jdh]

Any particular reason you "feel the need for speed" in your promotions?
Because it's not a race...

If he has the ability to promote every month through Spaatz then he has completed 4 years of JROTC (highschool) and is probably trying to finish before he ages out of the CP.

[AirAux]

IIRC, it is two (2) years of ROTC to promote monthly..

[jeders]

IIRC, it is two (2) years of ROTC to promote monthly..

Only through the completion of phase 2. In order to do that all the way through Spaatz, you need 4 years JROTC.

[ALORD]

At one point, the joining age could be affected by having completed an ( Elementary School) grade so we had 13 Y/O cadets. At that time ( When my son and daughter-law, a mating pair of Spaatzen) could take all academic tests ahead of promotions, and just wait for T.I.G to take the PT and Squadron requirements, we had some very young Spaatz cadets around. I was always irritated by those cadets who wanted to earn the Spaatz, but waited until they were 20 years, and 360 days old before they really cracked the books and wanted to take the test...it's like those kids in their Senior year of High School who decide they want to attend a Service Academy but have stood around with their thumbs otherwise engaged until the very last moment; That moment most people would characterize as "Too darn late".  I wish someone had records of personal Spaatzen history ( Well, there is of course, a secret cabal of Spaatzen, but you would have to have the challenge coin and know the secret handshake to get that information, or perhaps be a member of the Trilateral Commission or the Bohemian Society) In CAWG, it seemed for many years the real "Brass Ring" was to serve as the Encampment Commander, and be a self-appointed Colonel for life. When more Cadets showed interest in earning the Spaatz, that fell away rapidly. My older CAP friends tell me of the glory days when the CAWG encampment had a "Sergeant Major", since converted to a more USAF sounding grade, but with the "Temporary-Grade" thing disallowed ( The regulation changes and letters came with an asterisk and red underlining, in large font, "California, this means you!"warning)  I don't know what they call it now. I think that Cadets come into the program for a variety of reasons, all, or most at least, valid. One particular Cadet-type comes in with the Colorado trade-school as their long term goal, and their sole focus is to earn the Spaatz Award. The Air Force Academy does not care if you were a C/ Lt and saved a truck-load of children from a burning bus: If you don't check off "Spaatz Award" checked  on your application, your Cadet experience just means that you will be better at marching and saluting then many of your brethren. ( For those of you who enlist in USAF, you may wish to consider not mentioning your CAP career; Anything you say can and will be used against you) I don't think there is anything wrong with the Cadet who focuses on his USAF-Officer career from day one with CAP. They may lose out on doing a lot of activities, but they have a lot to balance with School, CAP, finding a Sponsor, etc.  A Cadet who enters CAP and progresses in earnest can learn a lot of things in CAP that will actually be useful in later life ( For those of you in Public Schools, sorry, but most of what they feed you won't have much real-world application) And a Cadet who is "just okay" will still benefit enormously from the lessons learned in CAP, even if they never "Completed" ( A real misnomer) the Cadet Program by earning the Spaatz award. Most outside  people don't know what it is, and at best, will consider it to be like the "Eagle Scout" Award, an enormously disproportionate comparison in my opinion.

[Майор Хаткевич]

That rant is so off base...

[NIN]

That rant is so off base...

Allen hasn't met a carriage return he could agree with in years...

[Mitchell 1969]

In CAWG, it seemed for many years the real "Brass Ring" was to serve as the Encampment Commander, and be a self-appointed Colonel for life.

I categorically challenge all of that and ask that you either cite a relevant source or withdraw the statement.

I have known many of the CAWG encampment cadet commanders going back to the 1960's and until the "discretionary colonels" practice stopped.

(Until 1964 or 1965, C/Lt Col and C/Col were "encampment only" grades by regulation, throughout CAP. True, they did continue in CA after that. I personally stopped the practice in 1983, as Commandant of Cadets, by refusing to appoint a non-Spaatz holder as an "acting C/Col." [That same cadet was appointed as C/CC in 1984, as a C-Col - but he had the Spaatz Award by then] I believe all encampment C/CCs from 1983 on used their actual grade - any colonels were Spaatz cadets, as far as I know).

At any rate, whether by regulation or under admittedly shady  "California rules," NONE of the C/Cols were "self appointed." NONE of them held the grade "for life." To the contrary - they could not wear it until reporting in and had to remove it before clearing the facility at the end of encampment.

Again, if you have sources that prove otherwise, please cite them or retract your claims.

[ALORD]

Do you challenge only the line you quoted, or the entire response? ( You will note that I put these statements in the past tense)I think if you talk to Ned Lee, he should be able to verify that we had a slow period in Spaatz awards, say in the period between 1999 and 2003. Your own statements identify that you personally were aware of the problem ( Mens rea)  Would you really like me to name the Cadet Encampment Commander who wore Col "flare" for ages after encampment without having actually won the Award? ( Or the Cadet who showed up drunk on MTV, drunk, the former cadet who appeared in Maxim in "uniform"? How about the Cadet who showed up in a homemade Senior member Uniform and was pictured on the CAWG newspaper? I think not, certainly not in a public format ( I can almost hear the keyboards Googling "Maxim naked Cadet" from here)  The discretionary grade was one slight, but significant, violation of CAPR's. Discretionary grade was practiced at many levels in the Cadet encampment C.O.C., not just the Commander slot.  My view is that many "Wing Cadets" felt that the encampment commander slot was a bigger goal than the Spaatz award, a mistake rectified by market forces. Naturally, the phrase " Self-appointed C/Col for life" was tongue in cheek. Any Cadet rank or grade stops sooner or later, without death being a  prerequisite. I am delighted to read that you tried to stop the practice of Discretionary Grade. But it was in practice long after the 1980's in CAWG, and CAWG was quite obdurate in stopping the practice. If you wish, I will name at least one Cadet who continued on as a "Colonel" after the encampment  but never achieved the award in the 2000's, who may have contributed to NHQ's dropping a house on CAWG, but I won't do so in a public forum. To clarify further, I refer to the "self-appointment" to be the period following Encampment, even though the practice of Temporary Grade was in practice in CAWG until well past Y2K. I was not in CAP in 1964 ( Few five-year-old children were:) ) So I can't speak to what the regs were at that time, or how they were implemented. I personally have nothing against having discretionary grade in principal. The right grade for the right slot clarifies the chain of cadet command, it was just impermissible under CAPR's.

My background statements on the matter of Spaatz progression were meant to be just that: Background. It goes to the question of how fast a new cadet can "complete" ( Arrrghhhh!) the cadet program. issues like 13 Y/O cadets and having a larger number of Job openings in the Service Academies due to effectively, to a continuous state of undeclared, and escalating wars, makes the desire to earn the Spaatz award a more desirous goal for many cadets, and I a not shocked or offended that a Cadet is "ticket punching" by playing the fast-track game to that goal line. Using the JROTC exemption and a laser-like focus on accomplishing the goal is certainly not a bad thing, and demonstrates a degree of tactical thinking that I am proud to see in a Cadet! Ths Spaatz ring is more golden than brass, and earning it before HS graduation is optimal, strategically, but tough to do.

I also think that a proper "rant" should be carried out in capital letters, don't you? 

[ALORD]

That rant is so off base...

Allen hasn't met a carriage return he could agree with in years...

Show me proof! I demand answers, photographic evidence or a full retraction and seppuku in the public square! Actually, I agree with almost everything on Captalk, since most posts are questions, and questions are always beneficial! I do admit to having opinions and even biases, and I am an admitted bigot on many issues ( Freedom: Good!, Communism: Bad!) The Global CAP powerbase often views Captalk as subversive, but it is an invaluable filter against the often "creatively interpreted" actions of our NHQ and various other echelons of Command ( Or in Air Force parlance, "Management" ) If no one thanks you for maintaining CAPTALK, let me do so now: You are a great American and a credit to our organization.

[Holding Pattern]

Somebody buy this man an enter key!

[PHall]

Alan, did you forget to take your meds again?

[ALORD]

Yeah, your momma ran out and I had to find a new dealer...

[SarDragon]

Guys, don't encourage him, or be the straight person.

[C/ID-073]

From personal experience, I've seen a lot of cadets who promote as fast as they can (and until I got my Mitchell I was one of those cadets) and I've learned that I don't think it's good for cadets to promote that fast. Because you will have a huge high ranking cadet in your squadron, that you don't want to give a position because their maturity hasn't caught up with their rank. I'm not staying it's bad to promote, but you have to pace yourself at a reasonable level. If you do promote that fast, then you need to prepare to take on some major leadership changes as you go. You can't be stuck in the mindset of a staff sergeant when you are a major, because then that only effects you negatively. And in most the cases I've seen with really really young cadets that are super high ranking, nobody respects them (they just respect their rank) because they can't work with them because they don't have the maturity to match their grade. So just be careful if you plan on promoting that fast.
Good luck!
Respectfully,
C/1stLt. Kubik, CAP