Community Service Ribbon Question

[Chappie]

Resolved: That is it the concesn....consens....kinsens....opinion of the majority of CAP members that the Community Service Ribbon shall only be awarded for volunteer service outside of CAP, but only while the member is a member in good standing. Community service shall not be counted for any activity where the CAP member was not a member at the time.

Community Service shall not be considered if the member is using community service in lieu of paying fines or to avoid jail time for offenses, as this is not true community service, but choosing service to avoid fines or jail time.

I would disagree, or add that any required Community Service for a religious organization or school also not be counted as those are not being chosen, but are being used to fulfill requirements.   (Many Schools now require a certain number of hours of community service, and I have noticed a rise in required community service for Bar-Mitzvah projects).  Court mandated community service should not be treated any differently than school mandated community service.

I would concur with the above statement by Alaric....that's like double dipping.   Any required Community Service for one organization should not be credited for the CAP CSR since one is meeting a mandated standard.  Community Service fits within the core value of "VOLUNTEER service".   If I am mandated to perform community service for an organization to meet their requirement (church, school, scouts, etc), then it is not necessarily "volunteer".   Volunteer service, IMHO, is that which above and beyond any mandated requirement that needs to be fulfilled.

[almostspaatz]

Resolved: That is it the concesn....consens....kinsens....opinion of the majority of CAP members that the Community Service Ribbon shall only be awarded for volunteer service outside of CAP, but only while the member is a member in good standing. Community service shall not be counted for any activity where the CAP member was not a member at the time.

Community Service shall not be considered if the member is using community service in lieu of paying fines or to avoid jail time for offenses, as this is not true community service, but choosing service to avoid fines or jail time.

I would disagree, or add that any required Community Service for a religious organization or school also not be counted as those are not being chosen, but are being used to fulfill requirements.   (Many Schools now require a certain number of hours of community service, and I have noticed a rise in required community service for Bar-Mitzvah projects).  Court mandated community service should not be treated any differently than school mandated community service.

I would concur with the above statement by Alaric....that's like double dipping.   Any required Community Service for one organization should not be credited for the CAP CSR since one is meeting a mandated standard.  Community Service fits within the core value of "VOLUNTEER service".   If I am mandated to perform community service for an organization to meet their requirement (church, school, scouts, etc), then it is not necessarily "volunteer".   Volunteer service, IMHO, is that which above and beyond any mandated requirement that needs to be fulfilled.

Just curious...so what about the folks who do it just for the ribbon...aren't they filling requirements then? 

In theory upholding core values should prevent any of the above from happening...IMHO (Please pardon my slightly sarcastic but semi-true statements  )

[SarDragon]

Sure, there are folks who do it just for the bling, but if the activity director is signing it of as successful accomplishment of the mission objective, whatever that happens to be, then it's still a win for everyone. The motive is a little suspect, but it
s still a good deed.

[lordmonar]

I personally don't have a problem with double dipping.  If you do the hours you do the hours. I don't really care that much about motivations. 

Unless it was court ordered.  That is punishment and should not be rewarded.   

[Ned]

Unless it was court ordered.  That is punishment and should not be rewarded.

Hmmm.  Maybe the court that ordered the community service should get the credit.  That would work for me! 

[lordmonar]

How many ribbons would you have? 

[Alaric]

I personally don't have a problem with double dipping.  If you do the hours you do the hours. I don't really care that much about motivations. 

Unless it was court ordered.  That is punishment and should not be rewarded.

To an uninterested high school student that is ordered to do community service, it is also punishment

[TheSkyHornet]

Sar, you did not read clearly.

Remember there are commas. I think the person put one extra coma. In other words, Garibaldi posted:

...time spent traveling, eating, breaks, or sleeping, if the event is overseas or out of state...

This may have been Garibaldi's intention, but I am putting words or rather comas, in his writing:

...time spent traveling, eating, breaks, or sleeping if the event is overseas or out of state...

Said otherwise, overseas counts if the time reported is not spent traveling or waiting for travel. That is, you go to Japan to teach people how to build a house. Only contact hours teaching those people on how to build a house. Time spent traveling to the airport, flight time, and time spent waiting for pickup there will not.

Egg zachary. Somewhere towards the beginning of the thread we said only contact time and not the whole, say, 144 hours of the week, which would presumably include the aforementioned non-activity activities. Much as I harp on poor grammar, a misplaced comma can mean a world of difference. Like, a panda eats shoots and leaves. Or a panda eats, shoots, and leaves. Totally different meanings but the same words.

Wow. It went that far. 

[Alaric]

Sar, you did not read clearly.

Remember there are commas. I think the person put one extra coma. In other words, Garibaldi posted:

...time spent traveling, eating, breaks, or sleeping, if the event is overseas or out of state...

This may have been Garibaldi's intention, but I am putting words or rather comas, in his writing:

...time spent traveling, eating, breaks, or sleeping if the event is overseas or out of state...

Said otherwise, overseas counts if the time reported is not spent traveling or waiting for travel. That is, you go to Japan to teach people how to build a house. Only contact hours teaching those people on how to build a house. Time spent traveling to the airport, flight time, and time spent waiting for pickup there will not.

Egg zachary. Somewhere towards the beginning of the thread we said only contact time and not the whole, say, 144 hours of the week, which would presumably include the aforementioned non-activity activities. Much as I harp on poor grammar, a misplaced comma can mean a world of difference. Like, a panda eats shoots and leaves. Or a panda eats, shoots, and leaves. Totally different meanings but the same words.

Wow. It went that far. 

Well that, and the fact no one caught the fact that there are 168 hours in a week

[Garibaldi]

Sar, you did not read clearly.

Remember there are commas. I think the person put one extra coma. In other words, Garibaldi posted:

...time spent traveling, eating, breaks, or sleeping, if the event is overseas or out of state...

This may have been Garibaldi's intention, but I am putting words or rather comas, in his writing:

...time spent traveling, eating, breaks, or sleeping if the event is overseas or out of state...

Said otherwise, overseas counts if the time reported is not spent traveling or waiting for travel. That is, you go to Japan to teach people how to build a house. Only contact hours teaching those people on how to build a house. Time spent traveling to the airport, flight time, and time spent waiting for pickup there will not.

Egg zachary. Somewhere towards the beginning of the thread we said only contact time and not the whole, say, 144 hours of the week, which would presumably include the aforementioned non-activity activities. Much as I harp on poor grammar, a misplaced comma can mean a world of difference. Like, a panda eats shoots and leaves. Or a panda eats, shoots, and leaves. Totally different meanings but the same words.

Wow. It went that far. 

Well that, and the fact no one caught the fact that there are 168 hours in a week

I did the math 4 times to arrive at that number. Of course, I didn't use a calculator, just my brain.

[TheSkyHornet]

Sar, you did not read clearly.

Remember there are commas. I think the person put one extra coma. In other words, Garibaldi posted:

...time spent traveling, eating, breaks, or sleeping, if the event is overseas or out of state...

This may have been Garibaldi's intention, but I am putting words or rather comas, in his writing:

...time spent traveling, eating, breaks, or sleeping if the event is overseas or out of state...

Said otherwise, overseas counts if the time reported is not spent traveling or waiting for travel. That is, you go to Japan to teach people how to build a house. Only contact hours teaching those people on how to build a house. Time spent traveling to the airport, flight time, and time spent waiting for pickup there will not.

Egg zachary. Somewhere towards the beginning of the thread we said only contact time and not the whole, say, 144 hours of the week, which would presumably include the aforementioned non-activity activities. Much as I harp on poor grammar, a misplaced comma can mean a world of difference. Like, a panda eats shoots and leaves. Or a panda eats, shoots, and leaves. Totally different meanings but the same words.

Wow. It went that far. 

Well that, and the fact no one caught the fact that there are 168 hours in a week

I did the math 4 times to arrive at that number. Of course, I didn't use a calculator, just my brain.

Everything I've ever been taught in public school has been a lie! 

[SarDragon]

The cake is a lie.

And with that -

[Luis R. Ramos]

Awwww, why not extend this thread a little, more Dad?



There! A thread that starts with a uniform issue and changes to a grammar issue! Usually it is the opposite...

[TheSkyHornet]

Oh I agree.....but the question was "why does this come up so often".   The answer is because the intent of the ribbon is not really clear in the reading of the CAPR. 

And when a regulation is unclear.....it opens up for different interpretations.

You can't write intentions. You can only write policy. Rules can only be enforced to the extent they are written.