Fort Dix terror target?

[RogueLeader]

What kind of sucky, minor-league plotters are these people? 

Losers!  They couldn't convert their VHS or whatever to DVD using a machine from Best Buy?  They didn't think that people might be made nervous by almost a dozen people shooting things and screaming jihad-associated chants?  And they thought they were gonna buy full-auto AK-47's for 500 bucks each?  In what currency?  I don't buy on the black market, but I've never seen a full-auto weapon for 500 bucks - come on.  Hell, my semi-auto AR-15 was more than twice that.  You don't buy a junk weapon for terrorism, anyway.  WTH?!  You terrorists suck!  Now rot in prison. 

A semi auto AK 47 is only 450- made in Romania. and my Civ M-4 was 800- made by DPMS

[SAR-EMT1]

But there again, you mention junk weapons... when was the last time a quality care check was made of anything from Romania? I dont want a round going off in the chamber, or a crap firing pin.
As for the M-4: Armalite or Colt.
though DPMS has some SWEET pistols.

[LTC_Gadget]

Ok, I will accept your argument on the grounds of "terror"
However, targeting CAP, like targeting the USCG, doesnt make sense, we are in the business of saving lives, not taking them.

Well, I live in OKC, so I have a localized example of why it's everyone's concern.  Remember that the occupants of the Murrah building weren't combatants either.  There was a day-care center in that building as well.  That strike wasn't about reducing the number of combatants, it was about making a point, demoralizing a people..

V/R,

[LTC_Gadget]

I highly doubt the Japanese at the time we so civilized.

We're all generally familiar with the atrocities committed by the Nazis in WWII. 

But, if you'd like to read accounts of things that will curl your hair, and make the Nazis look like choirboys, read of what the Japanese did to the Chinese in WWII, in "The Rape of Nanking."

V/R,

[RogueLeader]

But there again, you mention junk weapons... when was the last time a quality care check was made of anything from Romania? I dont want a round going off in the chamber, or a crap firing pin.
As for the M-4: Armalite or Colt.
though DPMS has some SWEET pistols.

My DPMS has been good ot me thus far, and as for colt, they lost the government contract due to poor work.  My Romanian may not be the best, and I'm positive that its not, but it is definitely functional.

[SAR-EMT1]

I highly doubt the Japanese at the time we so civilized.

We're all generally familiar with the atrocities committed by the Nazis in WWII. 

But, if you'd like to read accounts of things that will curl your hair, and make the Nazis look like choirboys, read of what the Japanese did to the Chinese in WWII, in "The Rape of Nanking."

V/R,

Read it. And I may need to apologize. The Nazis and SS had the Death Camps and whatnot.  I'm no way would I refer to them as "civilized" I was referring more to the older Imperial style  Whermacht.

And to agree with you, the Japanese Military at the time was indeed populated with savages.  I used to attend church with a gentleman who took a walk at Bataan.

[SAR-EMT1]

Back to topic... how did these yahoos expect to gain admission to Dix? were they to roll in as pizza delivery boys?
Speaking for myself, Ive been searched over - in uniform- going onto Scott AFB to go to the uniform store.

[sardak]

Back to topic... how did these yahoos expect to gain admission to Dix? were they to roll in as pizza delivery boys?

Funny you should ask...(from multiple media reports):

"Authorities said the group settled on Fort Dix in part because one defendant, Serdar Tatar, 23, had delivered pizzas to the base from his family's nearby restaurant, Super Mario Pizza..."

Mike

[mikeylikey]

Back to topic... how did these yahoos expect to gain admission to Dix? were they to roll in as pizza delivery boys?

Funny you should ask...(from multiple media reports):

"Authorities said the group settled on Fort Dix in part because one defendant, Serdar Tatar, 23, had delivered pizzas to the base from his family's nearby restaurant, Super Mario Pizza..."

Mike

It's going to be back to having to meet the pizza delivery guy outside the gate as well as all your guests just like it was right after 9/11.  Remember when an MP just waved at you when you drove onto any military post/base/station you wanted to?

[JC004]

Back to topic... how did these yahoos expect to gain admission to Dix? were they to roll in as pizza delivery boys?

Funny you should ask...(from multiple media reports):

"Authorities said the group settled on Fort Dix in part because one defendant, Serdar Tatar, 23, had delivered pizzas to the base from his family's nearby restaurant, Super Mario Pizza..."

Mike

Note to self: Don't buy pizza here when near Dix.

[DNall]

Back to topic... how did these yahoos expect to gain admission to Dix? were they to roll in as pizza delivery boys?
Speaking for myself, Ive been searched over - in uniform- going onto Scott AFB to go to the uniform store.

When you have a base access pass cause you deliver pizza there all the time... kind of bass ackwards huh?

It's going to be back to having to meet the pizza delivery guy outside the gate as well as all your guests just like it was right after 9/11.  Remember when an MP just waved at you when you drove onto any military post/base/station you wanted to?

The old school pull forward, salute, & wave all in one smooth arm motion... yeah been awhile.    Meeting pizza at the gate, crap, night as well go pick it up & save a coulpe bucks. Assuming the guards aren't flipped out & trying to shoot me coming back on, CAC & all.

[Al Sayre]

Sounds like opportunity knocking... put up a sign in the barracks, charge $2.00 -$3.00 per customer to make a pizza run every hour or so when you aren't on duty or out on the town. Lather, rinse, repeat...

[JohnKachenmeister]

SAR-EMT:  I was a Navy corpsman a long time ago.  The British targeted German rescue airplanes marked with the Red Cross in the Battle of Britain, with impunity.  The British claimed (unconvincingly, in my opinion) that use of the Red Cross to rescue a non-wounded pilot was an illegal use of the red cross insignia.

American troops in Europe used the red cross insignia, and it was more-or-less respected.  The red cross insignia was used BRIEFLY during the Battle of Guadalcanal, but since Japanese snipers intentionally targeted corpsmen, the red cross insignia were removed.  Navy corpsmen have not worn them since.

My friend, the fact the we save lives is immaterial to the enemy.  Killing us, killing coast guardsmen, or killing office workers in the World Trade Center is all killing Americans.

There animals do suicide bombings at school bus stops in Israel.  If you think they will not target CAP units because Congress says we can only do "Non-combatant" missions for the Air Force, you are living in a Dream World. 

[ZigZag911]

4. WE ARE NOT IMMUNE FROM ATTACK !!!!!!!!!!!!  By "We" I mean the CAP.  Consider the goal of the terrorist:  To demoralize and frighten the civilian population such that they will demand an end to combat operations against the enemy.  (This was the same goal of "Bomber" Harris and Hermann Goring in World War II when they decided to launch aerial bombing campaigns against population centers, BTW)  The wanton killing of a few dozen military cadets, ages 12-18, would be a VERY demoralizing act, or from the point of view of the enemy, a victory.  You know all those cherry-cheeked pre-teen cadets that National likes to use in recruiting brochures, because the mothers of potential cadets think they will look "cute" in their little BDU's?  Picture a few of them in bloody heaps on the grinder where they had been practicing close-order drill.

I've been saying this since 9/11, yet so few take the concept seriously. CAP is a "soft" target....not the only one, but, frankly, an attack on any of these cadet programs (Young Marines, Sea Cadets, JROTC) will result in a terrible tragedy that will also produce horrific visual images that will demoralize the nation.


Ok, I will accept your argument on the grounds of "terror"
However, targeting CAP, like targeting the USCG, doesnt make sense, we are in the business of saving lives, not taking them. We arent "combat oriented" ...save the 122 SOS 

These people are terrorists: they attack schools, hospitals, grocery stores, even religious processions of their own faith, in their own countries....our noble purpose is not going to slow them down in the least!

CAP, the Coast Guard, the Army-Navy game, any kind of event with large numbers of young people, civilians, or both presents an ideal opportunity to frighten the populace, to upset as many people as possible, to cause the most psychological damage for the least risk.

Fort Dix was a target for different psychological reasons: if one of our military bases, full of soldiers, is not safe, then nowhere in the country is safe!

[Smokey]

In 1980 I went to a police officer survival school  put on by the DEA.   I still remember an instructor discussing terrorists (yes--even in 1980) that one way terrorists planned on getting into military bases was via a taxi!!  Apparently a taxi is or was allowed on base without much scrutiny. It was the thought of the gate guards that someone legitimately already on base had called for the taxi.  No one bothered to take a second look at a taxi driver and just waved them on.

[JohnKachenmeister]

I suggest:

1.  Review your security at your activity.  Think like an attacker.  Say to yourself:  "How can I kill these BDU-clad Infidels who are preparing to make war on Islam?"

2.  Keep a log of all persons visiting your facilities.  NOT just a sign-in sheet.  Verify identity, enter name, address, DOB, SSN, and what document you saw to verify identity.

3.  Make follow up calls to the phone numbers given.  "Did you enjoy your visit?"  "Do you have any questions about our squadron?"  Good recruiting follow up anyway, but also verifies that the phone number they gave you is legit.

4.  Reduce to the minimum all activity visible from the street or public areas.

5.  Eliminate trash cans from areas open to the public.

6.  Keep the unit sign-in roster and the visitor log close, and in an emergency, bring both with you if you have to evacuate.  One helps with accountability for our people, the other helps locate suspects.  Enforce use of the visitor log and unit sign-in.  It doesn't look good to not know where our people are.

[mikeylikey]

In 1980 I went to a police officer survival school  put on by the DEA.   I still remember an instructor discussing terrorists (yes--even in 1980) that one way terrorists planned on getting into military bases was via a taxi!!  Apparently a taxi is or was allowed on base without much scrutiny. It was the thought of the gate guards that someone legitimately already on base had called for the taxi.  No one bothered to take a second look at a taxi driver and just waved them on.

As a test of my organizational abilities, I was assigned to the garrison of the post I was at about a four years ago with the sole purpose of clearing all of the taxi drivers and companies that operated on post.  We issued them the old Geneva conventions cards, and decaled their car window and put them through deers as contractors.  When I look back on it, I find it a shame that they got MILID's and CAP members can't.

[SAR-EMT1]

I did not mean to sound as though I live with my head stuck in the sand. Merely that CAP is not a very "visible" target. The Trade Centers, an Army base, The Capitol Building, a Head of State....those are visible Targets.
Yes I know we are not a 'hard'  target, but not a visible one.
As for the question I asked of entry, I knew the intended route of entry, what I didnt know was that Pizza Delivery boys got a CAC and a car sticker.
Taxi drivers, pizza boys... heck, newpaper delivery kids probably get a sticker for their bicycles.
What do we get?

Quick sidebar; would the fact that my unit wasnt quatered at the base have anything to do with being searched? ae- do the CAP types local to the base get a sticker or ID card?

[jimmydeanno]

Taxi drivers, pizza boys... heck, newpaper delivery kids probably get a sticker for their bicycles.
What do we get?

Quick sidebar; would the fact that my unit wasnt quatered at the base have anything to do with being searched? ae- do the CAP types local to the base get a sticker or ID card?

When I was at Langley AFB, the pizza places had a specific delivery driver that went to the base.  These drivers were typically a)military dependents already and had an ID, 2) Airman holding a second job, 3) The base had "base access passes" that were like extended visitors passes, that went with a DL, and the reciept showing exactly where the pizza or food was being delivered.  On the FPCON C or higher days, they would have to go to the visitors center and the person that ordered it was called.  A lot of the time though, people would just order pizza from the pizza place in the BX plaza...

What do we get? CAPID.  That and a DL will get you on base.  The base sticker doesn't do anything exept verify you have insurance...they check IDs for everyone now...

[LTC_Gadget]

do the CAP types local to the base get a sticker or ID card?

The last conversation to which I was a party, indicated that, in the AF at least, it's a base commander's decision.  They don't on my base.

Since CAC cards are usually considered synonymous with base computer network access, it seems odd that pizza boys are getting CACs... That's probably/may be a base-by-base decision as well, but I have no specific knowledge

In the AF, at least, the whole base sticker thing is getting a new interpretation as well, I was left with the impression, at least, that it's being re-visited DOD-wide.

V/R,