What do you wear? Specialty Track pins, that is...

[DNall]

Maybe they're in a weather flight or TACP assigned to the Army, or maybe they are just wearing it w/o authorization. It's not unheard of for people to do that. PJs aespecially man, they do whatever they want - who in the AF is going to tell them no? Anyway, the newer AFI is 2003, so I'm sure there are plenty of people that don't follow the tiny item that effects so few. All I know is what the AFI says & what Susie Parker has told others about it.

[Hawk200]

A question occurs to me: how is the AFI treating non-AF issue flight qualifications (i.e., wings?)

From what I've seen, the AF pretty much treats all wings as aeronautical ratings, regardless of branch of service. If you have an aeronautical rating of some type, from any branch of service (I've even seen a prior Coast Guard service member in the AF wearing Coastie wings, only one I've ever met), the AF usually permits its wear. The caveat is aeronautical rating, the Navy Air Warfare Badge doesn't fit the specifications.

There is a fundamental philosophical question here: the USAF gives wings precedence over anything and everything else.

In reality (and I will grant you it is not exact equivaleency), a basic aeronautical rating is analogous to the Army "Expert Infantry Badge" (do they still have that badge?) -- which is to say, demonstrating competence in performing the fundamental functions of the individual's primary military role.

Not as far as the Air Force is concerned. The EIB is not even permitted by prior service soldiers. I knew one Army Guardsmen that was going active AF, and was told he couldn't wear it. The Air Force would place it in his records, but would not permit wear.

To the Air Force, wings are wings, with no equivalencies to any other award. The EIB is a different award, showing proficiency in Infantry tasks, not Aircrew tasks.

If the Combat Action Ribbon substitutes, so be it....but other posts seem to indicate that in USAF circles this award is available only for AF combat service.

I don't know either way for a fact. It's just supposition at the moment. Having been active Air Force, I can say it wouldn't surprise me.

I believe what you say; I simply agree with the poster (Hawk?) who said we'll simply have to advocate for a change.

Agreed. I feel it's wrong to deny a member wear of a combat award from another branch of service, simply because it's another branch of service. But with every branch doing their own thing (the various utility uniforms demonstrate this), it's gonna be harder to make that happen. I'll lobby for it, personally, even if I don't have one. It may hold more weight if I do get one, but I don't know if that will happen.

[MIKE]

What does the CIB have to do with the Leadership ribbon again?

[DNall]

Leadership ribbon question mentions questionable badge wear, gets into discussion of inconsistent rules, then slides to quirky rules about mil badges. That's the wondering life of any thread.

[SAR-EMT1]

I'd warn you also that if they ever update 39-1 then authorization for the CIB will go away, per the AFI. The only reason it's okay now is it's in that chart that's based off the old AFI.

It seems to me (and I was never in military) that CIB (as well as any other insignia recognizing service in combat, from any of the armed services) ought to be permitted, and if necessary NB should enact a change to 39-1 to allow this..

I understand it strays from the AF style, but given the number of our members that are combat veterans, i strongly believe their service should be recognized by CAP, in uniform.

I agree.

As for badges. I have seen a SM who had only two badges on his blues... a few retired/former AD SMs in my unit leaned over and asked "what the heck is THAT?!" ... I took one look - the item was twice as big as any badge Id normally encountered-  and smiled... "well SarMajor, the Navy calls that the "Budwieser" .... 

I say, let them wear, what they earn.

[JohnKachenmeister]

Maybe they're in a weather flight or TACP assigned to the Army, or maybe they are just wearing it w/o authorization. It's not unheard of for people to do that. PJs aespecially man, they do whatever they want - who in the AF is going to tell them no? Anyway, the newer AFI is 2003, so I'm sure there are plenty of people that don't follow the tiny item that effects so few. All I know is what the AFI says & what Susie Parker has told others about it.

A weather flight or a TACP, even if assigned to the Army, would not rate the CIB.  That badge requires Infantry qualification.  They might earn the CAB, which is the combat badge for everyone other than medics and grunts.  You are probably right about the fact that they are PJ's, and nobody will tell them they're in violation of an AFI because they are afraifd that the PJ will kill them.  It also possible that Suzy Parker makes stuff up as she goes along.  I asked about a discrepancy in the tables of ribbon precedence in 39-1, and I think she just made up an answer to blow me off.

[DNall]

TACP would do IN skills with an IN unit & I've seen them regularly awarded CIB by the Army side by side with other troops. PJs mostly go to Ranger school if they want to, and that awards 11B as a secondary MOS, and then go work with the Ranger Bat or something. I don't know, I've seen it a few times, the only person I ever knew details on was TACP & earned it serving with the 82nd. I know PJs where ranger tabs from time to time, which isn't authorized, but no one's going to correct those that walk on water.

Far as Ms Parker, the way it's set up her word is pretty much law. However she interprets the regs is the answer, even if that changes from call to email. That's what command has delegated to her, so oh well.

[acarlson]

I can wear the Master PDO pin and the Senior PAO pin on each side of the white aviator shirt... (you know, 1/2" above the ribbons and 1/2" above the gray name plate...   

Nope, looks like you can only wear one specialty track badge on the aviator shirt - and on the left side.  Re: CAPM 39-1 Table 6-3 page 110.

Thank y'all, now I get to lambast some of the members that are wearing these incorrectly (after I make the needed changes to my uniform )

... not so fast junior ... before you go quoting scripture... the operative word is i-n-t-e-r-p-r-e-t-s... 

Here's one that'll heat up the flame!  ...  (sorry aviators!)
check out this NHQ reply to the same question posted (not by me, btw) on CAP Kowledgebase...   Answer ID  1708

http://capnhq.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/capnhq.cfg/php/enduser/std_adp.php?p_faqid=1708

Senior member wearing two specialty track badges

  Question
  What if a senior member has two specialty track badges? Can the senior member wear one specialty track badge on the left breast pocket and wear the second specialty track badge on the right side? 

  Answer
  Yes a member might wear two specialty badges if one specialty badge is worn on the left in the appropriate location and another is worn in the correct location on the right side of the uniform provided no more than the maximum of four badges/devices are worn on the AF-style uniform. Only one specialty badge may be worn in each location.  


as Linda Richman (Mike Myers) would've said...
          "discuss amongst yourselves"...

[DeputyDog]

I can wear the Master PDO pin and the Senior PAO pin on each side of the white aviator shirt... (you know, 1/2" above the ribbons and 1/2" above the gray name plate...   

Nope, looks like you can only wear one specialty track badge on the aviator shirt - and on the left side.  Re: CAPM 39-1 Table 6-3 page 110.

Thank y'all, now I get to lambast some of the members that are wearing these incorrectly (after I make the needed changes to my uniform )

... not so fast junior ... before you go quoting scripture... the operative word is i-n-t-e-r-p-r-e-t-s... 

Here's one that'll heat up the flame!  ...  (sorry aviators!)
check out this NHQ reply to the same question posted (not by me, btw) on CAP Kowledgebase...   Answer ID  1708

http://capnhq.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/capnhq.cfg/php/enduser/std_adp.php?p_faqid=1708

Senior member wearing two specialty track badges

  Question
  What if a senior member has two specialty track badges? Can the senior member wear one specialty track badge on the left breast pocket and wear the second specialty track badge on the right side? 

  Answer
  Yes a member might wear two specialty badges if one specialty badge is worn on the left in the appropriate location and another is worn in the correct location on the right side of the uniform provided no more than the maximum of four badges/devices are worn on the AF-style uniform. Only one specialty badge may be worn in each location.  


as Linda Richman (Mike Myers) would've said...
          "discuss amongst yourselves"...

Am I interpreting that you are talking about two different uniforms that have two different sets of rules? <Emphasis mine>

[Sgt. Savage]

I think the real problem is that we have too many uniforms and too many rules. Where do I wear my GT badge on my service dress speedo?

[DNall]

exactly. consolidate as much as reasonable to one corp & one AF version of each thing, & make the rules on each the exact same, or as nearly so as we are allowed (can't control mil ribbons/badges on corp).

[Hawk200]

exactly. consolidate as much as reasonable to one corp & one AF version of each thing, & make the rules on each the exact same, or as nearly so as we are allowed (can't control mil ribbons/badges on corp).

I second the notion. Absolutey, positively, wholeheartedly agree. (Just in case, there's in any question.)

So, whadda we gotta do to get this done?

[DNall]

I'd state it as a resolution with this as the goal & instruction to the uniform cmte for proposal. That's asomething you need to get a Wg CC to put forward, and or ask CAC to propose.

[acarlson]

...
check out this NHQ reply to the same question posted (not by me, btw) on CAP Kowledgebase...   Answer ID  1708

http://capnhq.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/capnhq.cfg/php/enduser/std_adp.php?p_faqid=1708

Senior member wearing two specialty track badges

  Question
  What if a senior member has two specialty track badges? Can the senior member wear one specialty track badge on the left breast pocket and wear the second specialty track badge on the right side? 

  Answer
  Yes a member might wear two specialty badges if one specialty badge is worn on the left in the appropriate location and another is worn in the correct location on the right side of the uniform provided no more than the maximum of four badges/devices are worn on the AF-style uniform. Only one specialty badge may be worn in each location.  

Am I interpreting that you are talking about two different uniforms that have two different sets of rules? <Emphasis mine>

Oh man!   did I get that mixed up... or did the CAP-Knowledgebase-who-knows-all-and-keeps-it-all-confusing-guru just confuse the issue?

ok...  I was asking about the aviator shirt...  if this Answer ID  1708 isn't referring to that... then... nevermind.  and my apologies.

I think the real problem is that we have too many uniforms and too many rules.

Yes... I absolutely agree there...  every new commander, needs his/her own legacy!

Where do I wear my GT badge on my service dress speedo?

whaaho hey!   you got a service dress speedo?   WOW you must know what device goes where!!   I'm impressed!

[DNall]

Where do I wear my GT badge on my service dress speedo?

Your choice of two badges, left & right cheek. Now the the utility thong... 

[Sgt. Savage]

exactly. consolidate as much as reasonable to one corp & one AF version of each thing, & make the rules on each the exact same, or as nearly so as we are allowed (can't control mil ribbons/badges on corp).

Not quite true. The AF controls what we wear on the AF uniforms but, much like other civilian organizations, and military regulations themselves, there are provisions for wearing awards on other than military uniforms. The general rule is that they are worn in good taste.

I figured out the GT badge on the "SDS(peedo)" Then there was the tie....

Almost forgot... We need to do something with NCO rank. How many of you have seen AF blue stripes on a BDU? Looks like Butt.

[DNall]

Yes, but we don't entirely control that. If the AF doesn't want them worn on teh corp combinations, then we shouldn't bite the hand that feeds us.

NCO stripes, some discussion here: http://captalk.net/index.php?topic=2033.20;topicseen There's been a few other discussions in the past but this one will give you the state of affairs.