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Equipment Questions?

Started by ranger0305, April 10, 2015, 02:08:25 AM

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ranger0305

Hi guys trying to finish putting together my 24 hr pack and had a couple of questions. First one of the required items is a poncho, does it have to be a military poncho? or can it be a cheap one from Walmart? I plan on getting  a mil. poncho but for my quals will i have to have a mil. one? Second for the chemical light stick it says "green." Does it have to be green? And lastly I have seen pictures of cadets (in the leadership book, cap website etc.) wearing green reflective vests when the list says orange? Can I wear a green one instead? I am asking because i would have to order a orange one while a green one is readily available to me.

Thanks,
Andrew.
"IT'S BETTER TO DIE FIGHTING FOR SOMETHING, THAN TO LIVE FOR NOTHING." 

C/MSgt
GTM3
MRO*
FLM*

Capt Thompson

Chemlite should be green for uniformity.....if you're lost, the pilots are looking for a green light, not red or orange.

Vest can be orange or lime green, as long as it is ANSI Class II. Check with local laws, however, as some states require orange when entering state lands.

Poncho needs to keep you dry, no other requirements. Military poncho will last a lot longer, but if I didn't have one and had a sarex this weekend, I'd grab a walmart $2 special.
Capt Matt Thompson
Deputy Commander for Cadets, Historian, Public Affairs Officer

Mitchell - 31 OCT 98 (#44670) Earhart - 1 OCT 00 (#11401)

ranger0305

Ok, Thank you for the info Sir.

Respectfully,
Andrew.
"IT'S BETTER TO DIE FIGHTING FOR SOMETHING, THAN TO LIVE FOR NOTHING." 

C/MSgt
GTM3
MRO*
FLM*

Capt Thompson

No problem, and welcome to ES, have fun!
Capt Matt Thompson
Deputy Commander for Cadets, Historian, Public Affairs Officer

Mitchell - 31 OCT 98 (#44670) Earhart - 1 OCT 00 (#11401)

Spam

Advice in 2 parts, Andrew:

Part 1: 
For now (for your GTM3* Trainee status), go with a cheap wal mart special.  I would, as a 30+ year SET qualified GTL/GBD, sign you off on your equipment task if you had this (in reference to a separate, current gear task thread on minimum gear).

Part 2: 
For when you decide to really stick with this SAR/DR stuff, upgrade to a durable US military poncho, as it has multiple uses beyond a rain gear item due to its design:  single man shelter, two man poncho shelter between two trees, ground cloth, remains retrieval cloth, etc.  Should be about 25 to 30 bucks at a surplus place.

Specifics on the uses are as a shelter half (spacing of the snaps are critical, as are the sizes, so you and a buddy can do a poncho shelter). Solid OD is the preferred color, camo is acceptable. Snaps have a male and female side, so make certain that there are 4 on each edge; some imitation military ponchos (e.g. Chinese knock offs) have only one sided snaps, be sure you get the real 2 sided snaps so you can attach two together and fold them over a taut line for a shelter. If ordering by mail/internet, look for the dimensions specified below.

Specs:  You're looking for a poncho which meets the dimensions of MIL-P-0043700D, "Poncho Wet Weather", and federal stock classification FSC 8405, NIIN 011000976, NSN 8405-01-100-0976 or similar, be sure to avoid items which say "mil standard style" or "similar to MIL-STD", and look for the actual NSN or NIIN. Sixty inches on a side by 82 inches long, with grommets on all four corners and in the middle sides, and two sided snaps 8.75 inches apart on along the sides.

I agree with the LT on the green vest/chemlite. Again with the 2 part approach:  go with what is easiest right now for your trainee status. If you want to stick with this, my advice is to get one of the battery powered flashlight chemlights... I got a handful for five bucks each at Home Depot, with a white LED at the end, and flash/steady on/off modes for the light stick half... that was four years ago, and they've not given out despite multiple missions and SAREXs (they double as a backup flashlight).

V/R,
Spam




Luis R. Ramos

#5
What does the Ground Team and UDF Task Guide say about the light and the vest?

It says Vest, reflective, orange (T) If for nothing else, uniformity! After this was published the ANSI II Type 2 standard has been added. You need to get a new one.

It also says 1 Chemical Light Stick, Green (T)

It is great that you ask questions, but these questions should be asked after you read the basic training manuals.

By the way, the Ground Team and UDF Task Guide is also required item.

[Edited to add the following]

So the Guide states you have to have them just like an uniform and ID before you can go out on a mission!


Since these items are required from Trainees, I think you have no options as to when you have them. I have seen Ground Branch Directors expect you to go out with an orange safety vest but not require the green Chemlite.

The mission base I usually go to is Long Island Group in NY, and they have a large supply of orange vests. So you might be lucky, the base you attend may have the required Safety vests.
Squadron Safety Officer
Squadron Communication Officer
Squadron Emergency Services Officer

Panzerbjorn

Quote from: 1st Lt Thompson on April 10, 2015, 02:16:50 AM
Chemlite should be green for uniformity.....if you're lost, the pilots are looking for a green light, not red or orange.

Us pilots aren't looking for green chemlights because we don't fly visual search sorties in the dark.  We'll fly electronic searches in the dark because we're at higher altitude and don't need to be seeing things as we home in on a signal.  So, if you pick green color, just don't let it be because you think a pilot is looking for a dim green light in the trees 1000' below him at 100mph in the dark.
Major
Command Pilot
Ground Branch Director
Eagle Scout

lordmonar

when you come looking for me at night....I'll be the one with the strobe light flashing my position.  :)

As has been stated.....follow the task guide.

If you want to/need to deviate....the only person who can rightfully answer that questions would be your GTL.

PATRICK M. HARRIS, SMSgt, CAP

ranger0305

Thanks for your help guys, you have answered all of my questions. Lordmonar I would ask my GTL these questions, if i had one. My squadron is in the middle of trying to put together a ground team and doesn't have a full fledged GTL yet.

Thank You,
Andrew.
"IT'S BETTER TO DIE FIGHTING FOR SOMETHING, THAN TO LIVE FOR NOTHING." 

C/MSgt
GTM3
MRO*
FLM*

Luis R. Ramos

Ranger, CAP operates on the premise4 that when there is a mission, you will be able to join with other personnel to make up mission personnel. Not always will you have a GTL from your own squadron. Any questions that should be answered by a GTL, can be deferred to when you train together.

That said, keep the uniformity suggested by the GTM and UDF Tasks.

When you meet one, and with the permission of your commander, ask him if he would be available for training outside of regular meetings. Sometimes they are. As long as CPPT is not violated, some ground teams meet regularly for training.

Welcome to the ES world. Your enthusiasm is admirable.
Squadron Safety Officer
Squadron Communication Officer
Squadron Emergency Services Officer

ranger0305

Quote from: Spam on April 10, 2015, 02:56:58 AM

Specs:  You're looking for a poncho which meets the dimensions of MIL-P-0043700D, "Poncho Wet Weather", and federal stock classification FSC 8405, NIIN 011000976, NSN 8405-01-100-0976 or similar, be sure to avoid items which say "mil standard style" or "similar to MIL-STD", and look for the actual NSN or NIIN. Sixty inches on a side by 82 inches long, with grommets on all four corners and in the middle sides, and two sided snaps 8.75 inches apart on along the sides.



Spam, I have looked online for a poncho meeting the specs you listed above but have been unsuccessful in finding one. The sizes i have found are 50"x80" and 56"x90". Do you have any suggestions on where to look for such a poncho?

thanks,
Andrew
"IT'S BETTER TO DIE FIGHTING FOR SOMETHING, THAN TO LIVE FOR NOTHING." 

C/MSgt
GTM3
MRO*
FLM*

Spam

Sure thing... will go back to the mil std and check to see if I typed it right, but there's really only the one MIL-P standard, and once you see one you'll know.  Five minutes searching on ebay finds you a couple of 30 buck options:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/US-Military-BDU-Woodland-Camo-Wet-Weather-Rain-Poncho-Rip-Stop-Survival-Shelter-/181710790385?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2a4ece9ef1

or

http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-USGI-Wet-Weather-PONCHO-Woodland-Camouflage/181710289789?_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D29266%26meid%3D546e80e4f8e84e8aacdf97c3145a5dfe%26pid%3D100005%26rk%3D4%26rkt%3D6%26sd%3D111632249695&rt=nc

Or, more easily, just call your local surplus stores and spend your dollars locally.

Best wishes,
Spam

Capt Thompson

I picked up a poncho from Fox Outdoors at the local surplus store for $22, it's identical to my old G.I. one. I agree, buy local and hit up the surplus store, a lot of times they give a discount to CAP members if you show your ID. If they don't know what CAP is, strike up a conversation and ensure you'll be sending more business their way if they give discounts.

As a Cadet, I was in a Squadron where I was the only one interested in ES. I got all of my training outside of the Squadron, and when a mission came up, I reported to mission base with my 101 and all of my gear, and they found me a team. It's a little harder to get all of your tasks knocked out if you don't have trained personnel in your Squadron, but not impossible, and it gives you a chance to branch out and network. I still talk with members that I worked with on missions 15 years ago.

Capt Matt Thompson
Deputy Commander for Cadets, Historian, Public Affairs Officer

Mitchell - 31 OCT 98 (#44670) Earhart - 1 OCT 00 (#11401)

ranger0305

Ok thank you Sir i will try my surplus store. Not sure what they'll have since they aren't a very good store and their prices are ridiculous.As for the discount they know what C.A.P. is and we buy all of our BDU items from them but it is a no go on the discount.

Thanks,
Andrew.
"IT'S BETTER TO DIE FIGHTING FOR SOMETHING, THAN TO LIVE FOR NOTHING." 

C/MSgt
GTM3
MRO*
FLM*