What hath McPeak Wrought?

[DNall]

Naybor... That'd cost a fortune, look almost exactly like the CGAux, look horrible to the rest of the AF (just as the McPeak fiasco did), and is just wholly unacceptable in any way shape or form.

Pinks & Greens? Are you nuts? The Army Air Corps is dead 60 years now & good riddens. The Air Force should have been split before WWII, but was not allowed to because you don't want that transition at the same time as a major war, but it faught as a seperate force nonetheless. And it did so in uniforms representative of t a time when the Country didn't respect or believe in airpower. They have a bit more place in the Army, but why that one? WWII is not the most important thing that ever happen in our contry's history, and that was not really the greatest generation. We're going to a blue/gray uniform that traces its roots back even before the civil war, and symbolizes a more important period in our history. The greatest generation though is right now, when facing a threat greater than that in WWII, and doing it with a fraction of the force & little world support. We're driving ever forward as an Army & AF, and the uniforms need to reflect that modernism as well.

Anyway, AF-style is supposed to be the least modification legally required from the AF officer uniform, and corp-style is supposed to be the least necessary to make things exisiting in every businessman's closet into an identifiable outfit appropriate to the circumstance.

[Eclipse]

Forget all this USAF and TPU uniform nonsense.  Let's return to our heritage and go to the "Pink and Greens" of the old army air corps.  This was the sharpest uniform ever.

Word.

And many of our members still have theirs!   

[Flying Pig]

We were talking about this very thing at my last meeting.  I say we go to khaki's, with the blue Air Force cover just like the AF back in the 50's and 60's.    All we need to do is buy Navy khakis as far as suppliers go.  Wear our ranks on our collars and leave everything else the same.  Then we wont look like anyone else, and still look sharp.  Not that that will ever happen, but someone or something needs to stop all of this uniform nonsense.  This is just flat out embarassing.  Uniforms for fat people, uniforms for skinny people, uniforms for if you really dont want to wear a uniform.  Geeeeeeesh!  We have more uniforms combinations than the WW2 German Army!

[mikeylikey]

Naybor... That'd cost a fortune, look almost exactly like the CGAux, look horrible to the rest of the AF (just as the McPeak fiasco did), and is just wholly unacceptable in any way shape or form.

Pinks & Greens? Are you nuts? The Army Air Corps is dead 60 years now & good riddens. The Air Force should have been split before WWII, but was not allowed to because you don't want that transition at the same time as a major war, but it faught as a seperate force nonetheless. And it did so in uniforms representative of t a time when the Country didn't respect or believe in airpower. They have a bit more place in the Army, but why that one? WWII is not the most important thing that ever happen in our contry's history, and that was not really the greatest generation. We're going to a blue/gray uniform that traces its roots back even before the civil war, and symbolizes a more important period in our history. The greatest generation though is right now, when facing a threat greater than that in WWII, and doing it with a fraction of the force & little world support. We're driving ever forward as an Army & AF, and the uniforms need to reflect that modernism as well.

Anyway, AF-style is supposed to be the least modification legally required from the AF officer uniform, and corp-style is supposed to be the least necessary to make things exisiting in every businessman's closet into an identifiable outfit appropriate to the circumstance.

..... the Army Air Forces did not fight as a separate force during WW2.  It was no different than the Armor or Infantry branches.  In fact most Army officers assigned to Army Wings and aviation units did not support the initial split from the Army.  They were Officers of the Army first and foremost.  It was a group of Generals that did not want to see their budgets cut or their men reassigned after WW2 that lobbied for a split. 

With the amount of joint ops that go on today and how the nature of warfare has changed it would not be a surprise if we see a re-integration back into the Army in our lifetimes.  In fact, the recent BRAC rounds have shown that DoD wants to place Army and Air Force assets together.  The primary reasoning is that the AF will support the Army. 

We're going to a blue/gray uniform that traces its roots back even before the civil war, and symbolizes a more important period in our history

I am guessing you mean the Revolutionary War?  However, the modern Dress Blues that will be updated come shortly before the Civil War. 

[DNall]

..... the Army Air Forces did not fight as a separate force during WW2.  It was no different than the Armor or Infantry branches. 

The split was in the works from the time of Billy Mitchell. The RAF did it right, and it took the US till after WWII to best organize ours. The AAF most certainly did fight seperate from the Army & different than other branches. You could enlist directly to the AAF, not other parts of the Army, had seperate basic training, etc. Then you went to a numbered Air Force & faught in Sq/Gpp/Wg/NAF... not under the command of a division or corps commanded by a ground commander like every other branch in the Army. The AAF was in almost every way but formally a seperate service during WWII.

With the amount of joint ops that go on today and how the nature of warfare has changed it would not be a surprise if we see a re-integration back into the Army in our lifetimes.  In fact, the recent BRAC rounds have shown that DoD wants to place Army and Air Force assets together.  The primary reasoning is that the AF will support the Army. 

The Air Force is a designated support service of the Army in the same way the Navy is of the Marines. There was originally an alternate plan to break AF off but keep it under the Dept of the Army the same way as the marines are with the Navy, but that was shot down (no pun intended) because of the amount & degree of importance of projected airpower being of greater importance then the support functions delevered to the Army.

They will not nor should they ever re-integrate, and frankly Army Aviation is about to take a serious smack down if they don't quit playing so dirty on their fixed wing evolution plan. You may well see better integration in some places with some assets, but iverall, for all the same reasons AF was broken off, you'll always have independent airpower.

We're going to a blue/gray uniform that traces its roots back even before the civil war, and symbolizes a more important period in our history

I am guessing you mean the Revolutionary War?  However, the modern Dress Blues that will be updated come shortly before the Civil War. 

The color blue perhaps, but that didn't emerge till the middle of the revolution. The current dress blue uniform is from the 1840s running thru the post civil war era. As that's turned into class As, and the gray shirt is added for Bs, that comes from west point, which was the basis of the confederate gray. Obviously a very traditional uniform, but also updated & slick for the future.... Now, on the AF side, it should not be steeped in tradition, it should always be laaning out into the future to show slick cutting edge professional, even a little business looking. It's not the army & it shouldn't look like the Army.

[Major_Chuck]

No can't be Tony's....he was a 4 star.

BTW....the fee for mentioning the former chief of staff's name will cost you an adult beverage!

Brother, I'm surprised you'd make such a "whoopsie!"  Weren't we all traumatized enough by McPeak to have his image burned into our minds, "Navy rank" and all?

Let's "QAF" this one to death now...

Well it's been a long time....and I was/am a maintainer.  It's not like we wore the service dress all that much.

As for QAFing.....lets get the Process Action Team together, we'll go over the metrics and then see if there are any Quality Process Improvements we can make.  Remember....it's all about customer requirments and empowering the process owners.

You can never have enought Total Quality Improvement, Total Quality Management, ISO9000 standards, and Process Improvement Teams to ensure that everyone feels warm and fuzzy about things.

[Major_Chuck]

From the Air Force Art Collection

http://www.afapo.hq.af.mil/Presentation/Common/..%5C..%5CPresentation%5Cimages%5Cartwork%5C1994.023.JPG

[Flying Pig]

I suddenly have the urge to buy an airline ticket.

[JC004]

From the Air Force Art Collection

http://www.afapo.hq.af.mil/Presentation/Common/..%5C..%5CPresentation%5Cimages%5Cartwork%5C1994.023.JPG

You just spring that on us without warning us of the contents?  I hate looking at that uniform!

[Camas]

When did that McPeak uniform come out and how long was it worn?  Anyone know?  Is it true that CAP never adopted it?

[Psicorp]

When did that McPeak uniform come out and how long was it worn?  Anyone know?  Is it true that CAP never adopted it?

I remember seeing those at the Clothing Sales store on an Air Force Base right after they were authorized, IIRC, they weren't there for long, maybe six months and then they were replaced with the current version.  Sometimes it is a good thing CAP is a little slow to adopt new AF uniforms.

[Desert Dawg]

McPeak also changed the flight suits.  We called them McPeak bags.  He took a regular flight suit and sewed in permanent creases and  added epaulets.  After several hours of sitting those sewn in creases became painful. 

[LtCol White]

The uniform wasnt ready for distribution until the end of his term in the 90's. When gen Fogelman came in, he altered it rather quick to the current uniform.

McPeak was seen wearing it but never saw any USAF folks wearing it.
No, CAP never adopted it. Once Gen Fogelman created the current coat, CAP was authorized to wear it.

[mikeylikey]

McPeak also changed the flight suits.  We called them McPeak bags.  He took a regular flight suit and sewed in permanent creases and  added epaulets.  After several hours of sitting those sewn in creases became painful. 

You are kidding right?  How god-awful useless!  Not to mention the fact that the NHQ spy's just saw this post, and they are in the process of writting the change letter mandating the change of our bags.  AWE to the SOME.......AWESOME!

[Major Carrales]

From the Air Force Art Collection

http://www.afapo.hq.af.mil/Presentation/Common/..%5C..%5CPresentation%5Cimages%5Cartwork%5C1994.023.JPG

Aw...I feel a bit sorry for him.    I mean look at that painting, he was proud of that uniform.  (he's even stroking that eagle to show he meant it!!!)

[LTC_Gadget]

he was proud of that uniform.  (he's even stroking that eagle to show he meant it!!!)

Is that a euphemism in order to get past the profanity filter?? 

[Desert Dawg]

I still have a Mcpeak bag that was never worn.  Maybe I will dig it out and post pictures.  Another change he made was to make the pockets on the lower leg smaller, so that you couldn't carry your flight cap in it. 

[mikeylikey]

This McPeak guy was a real piece of work.  Glad we don't have anyone in CAP like him!!!

[Psicorp]

This McPeak guy was a real piece of work.  Glad we don't have anyone in CAP like him!!!

Shirley, you jest!

[LTC_Gadget]

This McPeak guy was a real piece of work.  Glad we don't have anyone in CAP like him!!!

Thank gosh you were typing that.  If you'd have been speaking, I'm not sure that you could have enunciated that clearly with your tongue buried so deeply in your cheek.... 

V/R,