Aircrew Wings Available

[Майор Хаткевич]

I just got myself the GT logbook. Now to go backfill the 3 finds I had from 2008 and 2013.

[BuckeyeDEJ]

The question was brought up to Lt. Colonel John Desmarais

I bet Mr. Desmarais would like to know that as a paid, non-uniformed national director, he's outranked by wing commanders.... 

[Shuman 14]

Regardless of size and preference, all CAP aeronautical wings need to be standardized.

So where do you place the blame... Scamguard or National HQ?

National HQ for not presenting Scamguard with a template: "these is what they shall look like and do not deviate from it, not even one feather."  Unless, of course, they did, and Scamguard just chose to ignore it.

Scamguard for producing cheap crap that just looks bad and unprofessional and getting by with it because they know they're the only game in town.

So, I would say 50/50.

Cyborg, don't say Scamguard anymore... it's unprofessional and someone may get a offended by your honesty. 

I'm not offended; just calling out. You're a military officer and, as such, are held at higher standard.

Much the same as Vanguard needs to held to a higher standard? I'm just saying. 

[JeffDG]

The question was brought up to Lt. Colonel John Desmarais

I bet Mr. Desmarais would like to know that as a paid, non-uniformed national director, he's outranked by wing commanders.... 

He's also a dues-paying volunteer member serving in the grade of Lt. Col.

[Panache]

Getting back on topic...

[Sapper168]

I got mine and they are pretty good quality to be honest.

[flyboy53]

So I wonder....I hold a senior rating as an observer, but the 101 reflects scanner as well. Do I purchase these wings for kicks even though you have to wear the highest of the two? Technically I'm an aircrew member, too.

[lordmonar]

No.

You don't HAVE to wear the higher of the two (three)...it is completely up to wearers choice of which ONE you are going to wear.

[ColonelJack]

So I wonder....I hold a senior rating as an observer, but the 101 reflects scanner as well. Do I purchase these wings for kicks even though you have to wear the highest of the two? Technically I'm an aircrew member, too.

I'm going to admit before asking this that I know the basic answer - "Check the regs!" - but I wanted to chime in with this:

If you (like me) have a senior observer rating, doesn't that mean you also, by definition, have a senior Air Crew rating?

Food for thought ...

Jack

[lordmonar]

So I wonder....I hold a senior rating as an observer, but the 101 reflects scanner as well. Do I purchase these wings for kicks even though you have to wear the highest of the two? Technically I'm an aircrew member, too.

I'm going to admit before asking this that I know the basic answer - "Check the regs!" - but I wanted to chime in with this:

If you (like me) have a senior observer rating, doesn't that mean you also, by definition, have a senior Air Crew rating?

Food for thought ...

Jack

No.....observer wings....come from observer sorties.   AC wings come for "scanner" sorties....so you have senior observer wings....that is 100 hours in the right seat.....but you may only have 10 hours in the back seat.   So you qualify for the SR observer wings and just the AC wings. 

[NorCal21]

I totally agree.  There doesn't seem to be very strong oversight for standardization of the badges.  Similarly, the ground team badges lack consistency.  There are different shaped wreaths for the metal and embroidered, both of which are different than the images in the uniform manual.  I think the metal one is the only correct one, because it is the same shape as it ever was.  All the others were mistakes that were allowed to happen.  The EMT badges have the same differences.

I have to say that I think... key word THINK... the CAP manual graphic is what the GT badge should look like. It matches the AF's speciality badges in size and shape. The metal badge is close but clearly not the same, and the embroidered version is just horrible.

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

^^Quite logical indeed.

The embroidered one is quite awful.

(However, one must be careful with criticism of VG here on CT)

[Eclipse]

At least in terms of the historical precedence from the last two decades, the one on the left is the correct shape.
Going back to the BK2K catalog which features a subdued version of the GT badge and bright version of
the EMT badge, both feature the more circular shape, the same goes for the embroidered version of both.

The embroidered one is clearly incorrect with the laurels being open on the top and the GT being light blue.

The image on the right looks like it came from a set of badge images produced about 10 years ago by someone
in FLWG. Many were re-drawn "interpretations" with much better overall quality, but incorrect details and shapes.
Much like the dark blue heavily pixelated and "chromed" abomination of the Happ Arnold wings that wandered all
over CAP websites and presentations (and which is still in use today, despite being prohibited for CAP use several years
ago) these images have creeped into members image folders, and have been copy/pasted into all sorts of documents.

How is there >not< a simple specification for these insignia?

CAP purports 60,000 members, yet is seemingly incapable of finding anyone who can create the
style guides and insignia specification manuals necessary to fix these issues (I type this knowing full
well there are a number of members on this forum who could do it in a weekend).

[Майор Хаткевич]

At least in terms of the historical precedence from the last two decades, the one on the left is the correct shape.
Going back to the BK2K catalog which features a subdued version of the GT badge and bright version of
the EMT badge, both feature the more circular shape, the same goes for the embroidered version of both.

The embroidered one is clearly incorrect with the laurels being open on the top and the GT being light blue.

The image on the right looks like it came from a set of badge images produced about 10 years ago by someone
in FLWG. Many were re-drawn "interpretations" with much better overall quality, but incorrect details and shapes.
Much like the dark blue heavily pixelated and "chromed" abomination of the Happ Arnold wings that wandered all
over CAP websites and presentations (and which is still in use today, despite being prohibited for CAP use several years
ago) these images have creeped into members image folders, and have been copy/pasted into all sorts of documents.

How is there >not< a simple specification for these insignia?

CAP purports 60,000 members, yet is seemingly incapable of finding anyone who can create the
style guides and insignia specification manuals necessary to fix these issues (I type this knowing full
well there are a number of members on this forum who could do it in a weekend).

When do you start?

[Eclipse]

Sometime after anyone cares what I think...

[Papabird]

Sometime after anyone cares what I think...

Interesting thing to note.  I saw a Vanguard embroidered polo the other day with the Commander insignia.  It looked identical to the metal insignia!  So, if they can embroidered that on a polo in near perfect replication, why can't they make the sew on version that doesn't looks like a smeared copy of a photocopy!

To me, it proves that it is possible for Vanguard to do a decent job, they just don't care about the "cheap" BDU/BBDU sew on insignia.  But pay $8.00 on a polo, they will do it right!

[Eclipse]

It's most likely different machines and possibly even contractors.

The insignia are done on a continuous strip in quantity and then cut apart, while the shirts have to be
done one at a time.

[Papabird]

It's most likely different machines and possibly even contractors.

The insignia are done on a continuous strip in quantity and then cut apart, while the shirts have to be
done one at a time.

Very true, but shouldn't they QC/QA to the same quality?  The difference is night and day between the two.

[Eclipse]

Very true, but shouldn't they QC/QA to the same quality?

Yep, but that's been the argument all along. VG is good about replacing stuff that members say is sub-standard,
but it should never get mailed in the first place.