What load bearing equipment do you prefer?

[afgeo4]

When I was part of units that met at a local Army NG Armory we used to go to "debrief" at their Officer's Club which is also a historic irish pub. Cadets knew about it and often asked us to buy them a coke since it was only $.50 there. The coke was always "to go". A lot of good counseling and planning was done there. Don't know what I'd have done without it.

Oh... sorry... off topic again... load bearing equipment... Coaster!

[Stonewall]

In Virginia, we met at a huge American Legion post.  Two stories with a banquet hall, game room, small museum and of course, a bar.  The post commander would always give us tokens for free drinks.  While we met upstairs, our files and storage locker was downstairs which required us to walk through the smoke filled bar.

We did our best to keep cadets out of the area, but sometimes it's hard.  Every once in a while you'd find a CAP parent having a drink while Cadet Jr. was in the meeting.  Yep, more than once the seniors ended up having a post meeting discussion at the bar.

As a cadet, it was Burger King.

Okay, I call it, I was the last topic drifter...  back to gear...

[RogueLeader]

I use standard alice clip LBE's with a Y harness for small, 24 hr work (along with a standard camelbak)and a 3 day US Army assault pack (from e-bay) for 48 hr work (includes an H2O bladder). I have a medium pack with frame for 72 hours, but... my favorite load bearing equipment is cadets.

Mine is fairly similar, I have y, with pistol belt, with butt pack, and several pouches for 24 hr, and med alice pack for 72.

[smgilbert101]

Camelbak BFM for the 72-hour pack...It's comfortable even with the rare heavy loads.

Camebak molle vest, assorted pouches (added/subtracted as needed) with extra canteens (its hot in Texas!) and a butt pack.  I can wear all of the above comfortable if I don't load up the butt pack (food, extra socks) ahead of time.

The rug rat got the CFP-90 and the enhanced load bearing vest when I bought new stuff.  She (that's right, I said she) though that the woodland camo had a way-cool factor. <grin>

[Duke Dillio]

Is it me or is there some sort of wierd culture which drives us to wear all OD or black colored gear?  When I teach my cadets about gear, I try to drive the bright colored gear into their head.  I always tell them that blaze orange is their friend.  For the most part, I have seen some improvements in their gear choices but I have found a lot of people from other squadrons wanting to continue with the dark colored gear.  Everything I pick to wear is brightly colored.  Why do people insist on old military gear which is uncomfortable for the most part?  Granted, it is very durable, but I cease to see its function with a SAR team.  I'm sure most of you pilots and aircrew types would agree.

[JC004]

Is it me or is there some sort of wierd culture which drives us to wear all OD or black colored gear?  When I teach my cadets about gear, I try to drive the bright colored gear into their head.  I always tell them that blaze orange is their friend.  For the most part, I have seen some improvements in their gear choices but I have found a lot of people from other squadrons wanting to continue with the dark colored gear.  Everything I pick to wear is brightly colored.  Why do people insist on old military gear which is uncomfortable for the most part?  Granted, it is very durable, but I cease to see its function with a SAR team.  I'm sure most of you pilots and aircrew types would agree.

For Camelbaks, I buy military colors because that's what 39-1 requires.  Also, orange is scary.  Try being in PAWG.  Everything is orange.   

[mikeylikey]

Has anyone said they just use cadets to carry their equipment around?  I do.

[Duke Dillio]

It's been said...  Where's the coolness factor in wearing a cadet though?   

[JC004]

Has anyone said they just use cadets to carry their equipment around?  I do.

I have found cadets to be the best LBE.

[SARMedTech]

I personally go with OD or TacBlack (my personal favorite) because I use the gear for other things, like IMERT, where we dont need to be seen. I have had a blaze orange pack cover made that could be seen by SARSAT, so no worries.

[Stonewall]

Is it me or is there some sort of wierd culture which drives us to wear all OD or black colored gear? 

Yes.

At least between 19987 and about 2005, while active in CAP in FLWG and DCWG, military issue LBE and Ruck Sacks were so easily excessible, they were practically free.  Compare "free" to any high speed gear you have to pay for.

We had kit bags full of ammo cases, straps, canteen pouches, ruck sacks and frames.  When we ran out, we hit the surplus stores.  It was just the thing to have since everyone else had them.  For less than $100, you could find everything you needed, minus the contents, for 24/72hr gear.  Plus, an added bonus I think, it helped with the uniformity (unity) of the squadron or organization.  Especially since we're a paramilitary group.

You can't tell parents, after they already purchased as much as $150 worth of uniforms that they need to buy a specific SAR vest or pack for more than $100 when they can already get some gear for free or half the price.

I'm not against a civilian SAR vest or some high speed pack that's high vis in color, but why buy that when I've had the same gear for 15+ years and it works perfectly fine?

I did pay $30 for a good oranve vest that says "Emergency Services" on it from Galls, as did several other senior members in my last squadron.

[davedove]

I have to go with Stonewall on this one.  The high-vis stuff does tend to be more expensive, and you can often get the military stuff for little or no cost.

I think another factor in the equation is the "cool factor."  Some people just like wearing the military stuff because it is military colors.

[Stonewall]

I think another factor in the equation is the "cool factor."  Some people just like wearing the military stuff because it is military colors.

I won't lie to you, I believe that's a major factor as well.  Especially when I was a cadet; we all wanted to look "military".  Heck, that's why we were in CAP, right?  I'm sure a majority of cadets in CAP these days are here for the military factor.  But even as a cadet, I wouldn't have known where to get any gear other than the military stuff.  I wouldn't have even known that SAR specific gear existed.

For the cadets that I raised, they were all gung-ho military types.  I'm pretty sure if I would have offered a $500 high speed SAR load bearing vest for free, they would have stuck with military gear.  Or, they would have taken it and either sold it on eBay to buy more military gear or at the very least, kept it and spray paint it OD green.

I am very confident there are civilian made SAR LBE/LBVs and SAR packs out there that are much better than military gear.  But until you can go down to Dixie Pawn Shop at Bragg, Full Metal Jacket down in Old Town Alexandria, or T & J's Army Surplus in Jacksonville and outfit a cadet in that high-vis high speed, civilian SAR gear for under $100, I am going to have to stick with recommending cadets go with the military stuff.  Especially since all the MOLLE stuff is being issued to the military.  There are tons of standard issue LBE type gear out there for the taking.

In a military setting, such as the one CAP often emulates, uniformity often equates to professionalism.  In my eyes, that goes for equipment too.  It's hard to accept that a group of teenagers know what they're doing when it comes to SAR, but it may help their chances of being accepted or taken seriously if they show up equipped the same and uniformly look squared away.

It has personally worked for me on more than one occasion.  My team has been singled out to go to a high priority/high level (military base) during a real search mission where an aircrew spotted wreckage on military property because we truly looked 10x more squared away militarily than the other groups.  YMMV.

[smgilbert101]

^^Agreed.  The experience I had with military equipment as a cadet, helped when I joined the military.  I already knew how to rig all of that stuff.

In terms of color, there is actually a color restriction in the regs.  My orange vest doesn't show up very well under my Black Camelbak vest. 

[Duke Dillio]

I guess I should ask this question on here.  Anyone know where I can get a couple of VF-17 panels?  We have an exercise coming up and I want to use them for different things.  Thanks in advance for replies.

[Stonewall]

They're actually VS-17 Signal Panels.

A quick google search and I found: http://www.bestglide.com/VS17_Info.html

And:  http://www.bhigear.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=765

And:  http://www.avmarspecprod.com/signal.htm


I bought 10 of them at $5 a piece at a place near Ft. Bragg for CAP.  I always found it rediculous that we are expected to do ground to air signalling using panels, but in my 20 years of CAP, I never saw another squadron that had more than 1 or 2 "signal panels", not necissarily VS-17s.

[Duke Dillio]

They're actually VS-17 Signal Panels.

A quick google search and I found: http://www.bestglide.com/VS17_Info.html

And:  http://www.bhigear.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=765

And:  http://www.avmarspecprod.com/signal.htm


I bought 10 of them at $5 a piece at a place near Ft. Bragg for CAP.  I always found it rediculous that we are expected to do ground to air signalling using panels, but in my 20 years of CAP, I never saw another squadron that had more than 1 or 2 "signal panels", not necissarily VS-17s.

This would be why I could never find them.  Thanks for the info.

[Stonewall]

I'm sure CAP has instructions on the use of VS-17s, here's from the Army Field Manual:
http://www.rk19-bielefeld-mitte.de/survival/FM/19.htm

[smgilbert101]

^^^ Isn't it sad that you have to go to a German website to look at US Army field manuals.  The publically available Army library is a painful experience.  If anyone wants the web site, I'll be happy to look it up.

[JC004]

^^^ Isn't it sad that you have to go to a German website to look at US Army field manuals.  The publically available Army library is a painful experience.  If anyone wants the web site, I'll be happy to look it up.

and one of the best ribbon checkers is Polish...